ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[black eagle]

French Rafale pilots Impresed by Tejas

SOURCE : TNN
The French kiss is legendary. Now, what about an Indo-French one? It must be a blast — Indian spiritual sense and bare French passion. India's ace LCA pilot George Joseph and French pilots De L'Air, Plu Vinjae and others shared some fantastic bonhomie at the flight operations centre at Yelahanka air base on Friday. Engaged in intense conversation, India's LCA pilot and the French pilots exchanged notes on the LCA, Su-30, Rafale, F-18 and the art of flying.

The French pilots, fascinated by the LCA, inquired about how India's indigenous aircraft project was coming along. While the French pilots said they were mighty impressed by the light and compact aircraft, George explained how the LCA coasted through almost 1,500 flights, tackling in its wake a whole lot of technical issues typical of any developing aircraft. "The test flights have been a challenge. We went through many new developments. The software was continually upgraded and we arrived even to the fly-by-wire system. We've just received certification," George explained to the attentive French pilots.

One of the French pilots remarked: "I've been seeing the LCA fly for the past two days. It looks a very good aircraft to me. It has good flight abilities and I get the feeling it's doing well." One other pilot had just finished a good deal of research on the LCA, having gone to the aircraft and examined it closely.

Another French pilot said: "Cockpit comfort will be an important factor for a pilot to say how the aircraft is. Weaponization is another. For an aircraft that's coming up, its very good. But yes, ultimately flying the aircraft will tell us how good it is."

Then the LCA pilot and his French counterparts exchanged notes on how the Su-30 operated. The French were keen to know about the Sukhoi, given that it is the mainstay of the IAF and probably the deadliest air superiority fighter in the world. All of then congratulated each other for the flight displays and signed off, hoping to meet again.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I am happy to say that I was in Aero India 2011 and i had the greatest pleasure of not only watching the LCA but also interacting one on one with the Scientists of GTRE and ADA for hours. I grilled both the GTRE scientist on the Kaveri and the ADA scientists on the LCA, as a result i am an convert to PRO-LCA stand.

I had every amateur question that i had collected for the past 11years since i have been following the LCA program closely and i fire barrage after barrage at the scientist who so patiently and enthusiastically kept answering my questions on the Aircraft. At the end you only realize that guy is paid to work 15hrs a day on the aircraft and he not only has considered everything i have but he had also tried it, studied it and even heard of the criticisms. For example an long standing doubt of mine on useing carbon fiber for engine blades which is rather unusual idea he had not only studied it but also tested its limitation for which i was left breathless at their pace and effort.

None of you arm chair critiques will win against them and you cant help but be converted to their pov simply becoz of the hard work and time they put into studying every detail and to see how learned,knowledgeable and intelligent they are that we cant even begin to imagine. As a result the LCA not only did great on the Air show but it matched the stunts of the EF,Rafel and Gripen move for move. The LCA was surprisingly extremely agile and cant be considered a second class fighter. For kids who know nothing about aerodynamics and merely look at the Aesthetic part should not be too proud of themselves because they have no reason to be.

Just check out how rude i started out with them..

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Here i question if we do really have the single crystal blade technology and what is the exact thrust.

 

[nitesh]

GK regarding crystal blades, this tech as shown to D.r kalam in 2006-2007 time frame if my memory serves me right. The main hurdle seems to be is productizing the tech (This is my guess).

Good to see the mind change, but if you can put a post giving the complete description of the conversation you had, will be really great.

 

[SATISH]

I am happy to say that I was in Aero India 2011 and i had the greatest pleasure of not only watching the LCA but also interacting one on one with the Scientists of GTRE and ADA for hours. I grilled both the GTRE scientist on the Kaveri and the ADA scientists on the LCA, as a result i am an convert to PRO-LCA stand.

I had every amateur question that i had collected for the past 11years since i have been following the LCA program closely and i fire barrage after barrage at the scientist who so patiently and enthusiastically kept answering my questions on the Aircraft. At the end you only realize that guy is paid to work 15hrs a day on the aircraft and he not only has considered everything i have but he had also tried it, studied it and even heard of the criticisms. For example an long standing doubt of mine on useing carbon fiber for engine blades which is rather unusual idea he had not only studied it but also tested its limitation for which i was left breathless at their pace and effort.

None of you arm chair critiques will win against them and you cant help but be converted to their pov simply becoz of the hard work and time they put into studying every detail and to see how learned,knowledgeable and intelligent they are that we cant even begin to imagine. As a result the LCA not only did great on the Air show but it matched the stunts of the EF,Rafel and Gripen move for move. The LCA was surprisingly extremely agile and cant be considered a second class fighter. For kids who know nothing about aerodynamics and merely look at the Aesthetic part should not be too proud of themselves because they have no reason to be.

Just check out how rude i started out with them..

Darn...You could have asked me why composites or ceramics cant be used...and I would have given you an explaination.

The Engine is actually divided into the fans and the core. Even having SC blades there is still a problem of stress distribution that takes place in every high speed moving object.

 

[ajay_ijn]

I couldn't exactly understand when above poster says "Pro-LCA Stand" ?? Nobody has doubts over hard work and contribution made by individual scientists. There would be no LCA if it isn't for them. But R&D is one thing and using the machines in war is another thing.


the right term would be Pro-Pilot/ Air Crew. Scientist develops LCA but Pilots go into war with them. if the Fighter pilot is able complete missions successfully without getting injured or losing his own life, Scientist has indeed done the job perfectly.

Its just that expectations and assumptions made about DRDO as an organisation didn't turn out to be as expected as far as LCA timeline is concerned. May be we were bit too confident about R&D capabilities in 1980s and 90s. The endless wait for IAF is always frustrating for them as they need to urgently replace obsolete aircraft.

Either we criticize DRDO for delays or Babus for being corrupt and huge red tape associated with foreign procurements or
Airforce for not cooperating or understanding DRDO and difficulties in development of complex technologies and constantly changing requirements in the view of changing situations, only one thing finally suffers i.e Force modernization resulting in fighting with inferior or obsolete weapons during war, thereby risking lives of soldiers or even face defeat.

we might think Su-30MKI or Eurofighter Typhoon might excel or even overwhelm enemy with their edge. but who knows Tejas might prove far more effective and contribute more effectively during war because situation may demand fighter with features that Tejas has.

no matter how many we operate or how effective are those machines. The only thing that matters how they perform and contribute to Indian Victory during the war.

it was during kargil when operating helicopters became too risky, attack helicopters could not even be operated in that altitudes. Mirage 2000 came to rescue to effectively provide close air support even though it was never meant to provide close air support but only as air superiority fighter.

 

[ace009]

I think people are reading too much into the A/C to A/C capabilities comparison during actual dogfights. In most cases, it is the pilots' training, combat strategy, intelligence and better weapons that win the situation rather than which aircrafts face off. In general, the pro-eastern block countries were flying soviet aircrafts comparable in capability to western aircrafts. Yet, time and again they were beaten due to poor pilot training, bad strategy and lack of proper weapons.

 

[black eagle]

 

[black eagle]

 

[p2prada]

Darn...You could have asked me why composites or ceramics cant be used...and I would have given you an explaination.

The Engine is actually divided into the fans and the core. Even having SC blades there is still a problem of stress distribution that takes place in every high speed moving object.

Composites can't survive bird hits and other types of FOD(Foreign Object Damage). Titanium is a better option and crystal blades even better.

 

[SATISH]

Composites can't survive bird hits and other types of FOD(Foreign Object Damage). Titanium is a better option and crystal blades even better.

I know man...Being a dentist...I had a whole subject for material sciences lol

 

[nitesh]

a good read:
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2011/feb 2011 .pdf

 

[p2prada]

I know man...Being a dentist...I had a whole subject for material sciences lol

Composites in Dentistry.

Damn. That reminds me, I need to get my teeth checked.

 

[Parthy]

Kaveri engine to be installed in 2018

The Indian-built engine for the country's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) may be ready for installation in 2018, a senior official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has said."The gas turbine engine Kaveri will replace the GE-404 engines which are now being put in the LCA," DRDO's chief controller of research and development Prahlada told reporters here.

The Kaveri engine, a Rs.2,000 crore project, is being developed by one of the DRDO labs based in Bangalore, the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE).

Test runs of the first complete prototype Kaveri began in 1996.

However fed up by the delay in fully developing the engine, the defence ministry shelved its plans to build a fighter aircraft.

The Kaveri engine project got revived in 2006 following a joint venture formed between the DRDO and French company, Snecma, an engine-maker, to jointly develop it to fit in the LCA.



http://idrw.org/?p=2800

 

[Parthy]

HAL orders 24 additional F404-GE-IN20 Engines for Tejas fighter jet

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has ordered an additional 24 F404-GE-IN20 afterburning engines to power the first operational squadron of Tejas fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force. Value of the order is in excess of $100 million and follows an initial 2004 purchase of 17 F404-GE-IN20 engines to power a limited series of operational production aircraft and naval prototypes.

Earlier this year, the F404-GE-IN20 was trial-installed in Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) as part of final evaluations toward flight-testing, scheduled for mid-2007. The F404-IN-20 engine has generated more than 19,000 pounds (85 kN) uninstalled thrust and has completed 330 hours of Accelerated Mission testing, which is the equivalent of 1,000 hours of flight operation.

The F404-GE-IN20 succeeds F404-F2J3 development engines used for nearly 600 flights, cumulatively covering eight engines.

Based on the F404-GE-402, the F404-GE-IN20 is the highest rated F404 model and includes a higher-flow fan, increased thrust, a Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) system, single-crystal turbine blades and a variety of single-engine features.

The F404 fighter engine family is one of the most successful in military aviation history. More than 4,000 F404 engines power a number of combat aircraft flown by the United States Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, plus countries throughout Europe, Asia and Africa.

GE Aviation, an operating unit of General Electric Company (NYSE: GE), is one of the world's leading manufacturers of jet engines for civil and military aircraft. GE also is a world-leading provider of maintenance and support services for jet engines.



http://idrw.org/?p=2804

 

[RPK]

Israeli air-to-air missile shoots past indigenous Astra to arm LCA Tejas
http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/r...ast-indigenous-astra-to-arm-lca-tejas_1508086


The indigenous component of a fully armed light combat aircraft (LCA) will see a further dip despite a home-grown beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air missile (AAM) being developed in India.
With an eye on hurrying up the light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas' induction into the Indian Air Force, India plans to equip the aircraft with the Israeli supersonic Derby BVR-AAM, instead of the indigenously developed Astra BVR-AAM.

The Derby BVR-AAM missile, developed by Israel's Rafael Advanced Defence Systems Ltd (RADSL), is already a tried and tested weapon, being used on the Sea Harriers and has a range of 50km compared to 80km of Astra.

India is to sign a contract in March with RADSL to procure the Derby BVR-AAM. Delivery of the missiles is expected by end of 2012 when its final test phase is expected to be completed.
Sources in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which designed and developed the LCA Tejas, however, confirmed that the Astra BVR-AAM will be integrated with LCA Tejas once all the flight test firing schedules are successfully completed using Sukhoi-30 MKI fighters.

Astra has only completed ground tests at the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur-on-Sea in January last year, and is yet to be successfully test-fired in the air using a Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter jet.
A senior ADA scientist said the Astra BVR-AAM, being a complex missile system, will have to undergo some more trials before it is declared fully operational on LCA Tejas, Sukhoi-30 MKIs and Mirage-2000s of the IAF.

The Astra has already been validated through ground tests on its control, navigation, propulsion, air frame and other subsystems.
The defence ministry plans to order the manufacture of 160 LCA Tejas, of which 100 will be for the IAF and 60 for the Indian Navy. Though the naval version is still under development, the IAF has already ordered 40 aircraft for induction after it obtains final operational clearance.

 

[black eagle]

DRDO Technology focus on LCA

Good read....

RCS reduction techniques HAVE been used on the LCA.

Shape modification has been carried out keeping in mind RCS and RCS has been brought down significantly this way.

And a facility has been established for coating Indium-Tin-Oxide (ITO) on the Tejas' canopy and windshield to reduce RCS reflection from the cockpit.

 

[black eagle]

 

[ppgj]

a good read:
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2011/feb 2011 .pdf

thanks nitesh. what a goldmine of information and what an achievement with a paltry budget!! three cheers.

HAL orders 24 additional F404-GE-IN20 Engines for Tejas fighter jet

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has ordered an additional 24 F404-GE-IN20 afterburning engines to power the first operational squadron of Tejas fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force. Value of the order is in excess of $100 million and follows an initial 2004 purchase of 17 F404-GE-IN20 engines to power a limited series of operational production aircraft and naval prototypes.

Earlier this year, the F404-GE-IN20 was trial-installed in Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) as part of final evaluations toward flight-testing, scheduled for mid-2007. The F404-IN-20 engine has generated more than 19,000 pounds (85 kN) uninstalled thrust and has completed 330 hours of Accelerated Mission testing, which is the equivalent of 1,000 hours of flight operation.

The F404-GE-IN20 succeeds F404-F2J3 development engines used for nearly 600 flights, cumulatively covering eight engines.

Based on the F404-GE-402, the F404-GE-IN20 is the highest rated F404 model and includes a higher-flow fan, increased thrust, a Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) system, single-crystal turbine blades and a variety of single-engine features.

The F404 fighter engine family is one of the most successful in military aviation history. More than 4,000 F404 engines power a number of combat aircraft flown by the United States Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, plus countries throughout Europe, Asia and Africa.

GE Aviation, an operating unit of General Electric Company (NYSE: GE), is one of the world's leading manufacturers of jet engines for civil and military aircraft. GE also is a world-leading provider of maintenance and support services for jet engines.



http://idrw.org/?p=2804

this is not true. may be a confusion on the part IDRW. 17+24 engines were procured in 2 lots long back. does not make sense when GE414 agreement is already in place.

lets take a look at the 2007 press release of GE -

February 07, 2007

F404-GE-IN20 Engines Ordered for India Light Combat Aircraft

--BANGALORE, INDIA -- Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has ordered an additional 24 F404-GE-IN20 afterburning engines to power the first operational squadron of Tejas fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force. Value of the order is in excess of $100 million and follows an initial 2004 purchase of 17 F404-GE-IN20 engines to power a limited series of operational production aircraft and naval prototypes.

Earlier this year, the F404-GE-IN20 was trial-installed in Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) as part of final evaluations toward flight-testing, scheduled for mid-2007. The F404-IN-20 engine has generated more than 19,000 pounds (85 kN) uninstalled thrust and has completed 330 hours of Accelerated Mission testing, which is the equivalent of 1,000 hours of flight operation.

The F404-GE-IN20 succeeds F404-F2J3 development engines used for nearly 600 flights, cumulatively covering eight engines.

Based on the F404-GE-402, the F404-GE-IN20 is the highest rated F404 model and includes a higher-flow fan, increased thrust, a Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) system, single-crystal turbine blades and a variety of single-engine features.

The F404 fighter engine family is one of the most successful in military aviation history. More than 4,000 F404 engines power a number of combat aircraft flown by the United States Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, plus countries throughout Europe, Asia and Africa.

GE Aviation, an operating unit of General Electric Company (NYSE: GE), is one of the world's leading manufacturers of jet engines for civil and military aircraft. GE also is a world-leading provider of maintenance and support services for jet engines.

http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/military/military_20070207.html

now compare the IDRW report which infacts quotes GE!!! see both reports are identical!!!

 

[chex3009]

A day in the life of a Tejas test pilot

The headphone crackles in his ears as Wing Commander Pranjal Singh looks out from the cockpit of his Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, codenamed LSP-3, at the sun-baked runway stretching ahead.

Once again he blesses the Indian designers who built the Tejas cockpit: in the Sukhoi-30MKI that he flew before test pilot school, he would have been dripping sweat.

"Trims neutral, brakes okay, all systems go from telemetry," says Group Captain Toffeen's calm voice.

Toffeen and his flight test engineers in the telemetry room of the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) will monitor every system in Singh's aircraft right through the flight, poring over radio data transmitted from LSP-3's vitals.

No patient in intensive care is watched so closely. Any serious glitch means aborting the mission.

"Confirm, monitored," Singh acknowledges.

Toffeen clears him to go: "Take off with max AB, rotation at two-four-zero." In test pilot jargon, that means take off at full throttle (maximum afterburner), rotating the joystick to get airborne at 240 kilometres per hour.

"LSP-3, ready for take-off," says Singh to Air Traffic Control, which clears every aircraft. ATC is prompt: "LSP-3, cleared for take-off, wind 270, ten knots."


Singh guns his engine to full power and the Tejas hurtles forward, the acceleration driving him backwards into his seat. In seconds he is at 200 kmph 220 240 and, as he pulls the stick, LSP-3 is sweetly airborne and climbing fast. This is the moment that every fighter pilot lives for.

But Singh is more than a combat fighter pilot, operating within tested and certified performance limits.

As a test pilot for the Tejas LCA programme, his job is to push the performance envelope of India's new fighter, checking how it reacts as he nudges it into uncharted territory.

"Each flight is a mission into the unknown," explains Air Commodore Rohit Varma, project director, flight-testing.


Varma, a tall, greying veteran who has spent a lifetime flying the unforgiving MiG-21 fighter, explains how each test flight deliberately takes the Tejas faster, slower or higher than it has ever been before, or on a mission like firing rockets or missiles, which could shut down the fighter's engine by sucking up all available oxygen.

Business Standard was at the National Flight Test Centre in Bengaluru to spend time with the pilots who test the Tejas, India's first attempt to build a modern "fourth-generation" fighter aircraft.

Since the first fledgling Tejas lurched into the sky in 2001, they have flown it to the limits of its flight envelope, but without rashly endangering the aircraft. While there are disasters in almost every fighter development programme, the zero-risk approach would make a Tejas crash a programme-threatening disaster.



Finely honed judgement is the first hallmark of a test pilot. Chatting with these men in the briefing room, I am struck by their maturity. This is no bunch of swaggering top guns, but experienced professionals in whom brash youth has given way to an impressive calm that must prevail in a life-threatening flight emergency.

Group Captain George Thomas, built like a bull, has commanded a squadron of Su-30MKIs. Group Captain Ritu Raj Tyagi, the most experienced of the group and a former Jaguar combat commander, ran the last Mumbai marathon as a diversion from flight-testing.

Captain Jaideep Maolankar, who cut his teeth flying Sea Harrier fighters off naval aircraft carriers, commanded warship INS Ganga as it chased pirates off the Somali coast. Group Captain Venugopal, like Varma, has commanded a MiG-21 squadron on the Pakistani border.


Even Singh, the baby of the team, is by conventional standards a veteran pilot, having commanded a Sukhoi-30MKI squadron. Now learning the ropes at NFTC, he will extensively test the first two Tejas fighters that Hindustan Aeronautics delivers to the IAF this year.

The LSP-3 streaks into the sky. Singh's mission is to test a new smoke winder -- an under-wing pod that trails smoke. The device will help NFTC test the Tejas' reaction when it flies into a jet wake, a deadly 250-kmph blast of air emitted by a jet engine flying ahead.

Jet streams confuse fly-by-wire fighters like the Tejas, which are kept stable by on-board computers.

Swedish company Saab crashed one of its Gripen fighters during testing when it flew into one. But these NFTC pilots seem to believe that flying the Tejas into a jet stream is just another day at the office.


This matter-of-fact approach to the unknown leads NASA to choose most of its astronauts from the test pilot community.

"Test flying only seems glamorous from the outside," says Thomas, dismissing my suggestion that every young IAF fighter jockey must idolise him.

"Our daily routine involves a great deal of what any fighter pilot would consider drudgery. There is plenty of daily paperwork, and loads of study across the aerospace domain."

But the passion for flying keeps these aces motivated. "We have all finished commanding our fighter squadrons and would normally be moving on to flying a desk," says Maolankar.


"This allows us to stay in the cockpit longer, connected with the business end of combat aviation. We are a few metres away from a fighter plane at all times."

In western air forces, like the US Air Force, test pilots do nothing but flight-testing.

While specialisation allows them to stay in close touch with test programmes, pilots become disconnected from combat flying. IAF's philosophy is different.

"Our tactics are evolving so quickly that we feel it is better to keep moving pilots between test flying and operational squadrons. That brings the latest operational doctrines into aircraft development," explains Thomas.


In the telemetry room, Toffeen controls Singh's mission. The atmosphere is charged; hawk-eyed technicians are glued to their monitors to detect the first sign of trouble.

Toffeen has done this for 21 years. "It is a really interesting job," he laughs, relaxed and confident.

"Every day is a new day." Singh's voice booms over the speakers that broadcast all communication between pilot and flight engineer. The smoke winder has been successfully tested. Toffeen tells him to head back to base. There is no cheering or clapping; this is business as usual.

"Do you guys ever party, get drunk, let your hair down," I ask Varma.

"Not this week, definitely. We will be doing aerobatics twice daily and, as an article of faith, we don't drink for 48 hours before flying." But then the professional mask slips just a fraction and there is a gleam in the Air Commodore's eyes.

"But don't go away with the impression that these guys are loners. Test pilot school parties are famous in the Air Force."

Source : Rediff News