BrahMos Cruise Missile

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by nitesh, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. porky_kicker

    porky_kicker Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't want to waste my time explaining

    So brahmos NG in air to air ( if implemented ) will solve the your navigational corrundrum the same way the Chinese solved theirs with regard to claimed 300-400 km range PL 15.

    As regards to vulnerability of launch platform or awacs I guess the problem will be solved more or less the same way you Chinese will do with regard to PL 15

    Capish ? Lolzzzzz
     
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  2. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers NaPakiRoaster Senior Member

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    You launch an avg a2a missile like k171, the missile will continue to loose kinetic energy and speed once its rocket motor burnsout.
     
  3. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Brahmos doesn't have datalink for midcourse guidance. It relies on INS. Not sure what are you talking about. Btw, max speed of AMRAAM is also just Mach 4.
     
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  4. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Of course Brahmos does have datalink for midcourse guidance. You can choose not to use it but it is there. Every anti-ship missile has that (including Onyx). They can fly by pre-set trajectory, but that will impair the effectiveness. In the battlefield, there may be decoy, false signal, new priority target, etc. It is absolutely necessary function for this kind of missile to update target information in the middle of course. That is why Russians need their nuclear battery satellite carrying heavy radar in attacking the US fleet. But that is another story.


    When you are trying to attack a AWACS or transporter, this function becomes more important.

    The active radar on board has a limited range (around 40km) and limited angel (around ±45)

    So the acquisition area is very limited. Before the missile can activate the its own radar or seeker, it will need at least 200 seconds to get close enough. Any modern plane can flee out of the detection area with that amount of time by manoeuvring. So, you need the midcourse update.



    The latest AMRAAM range is around 160km which means it only needs 87 seconds to get into on board radar working range. More importantly, they receive midcourse correction.
     
  5. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers NaPakiRoaster Senior Member

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    You need a little correction, amraam dont travel at mach 4 throughout its flight(thats the launch speed) . Once motor burns out, it looses its speed along with its kinetic energy, while the brahmos missile ramjet burns through out its range at a cruise speed of mach 3, while the proposed variant has the cruise speed of mach 3. 5.
     
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  6. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Russia, India to turn BrahMos cruise missile into hypersonic weapon
    LANGKAWI, /Malaysia/, March 28. /TASS/. The BrahMos cruise missile will get a maximum speed of Mach 5 during its upgrade to become a hypersonic weapon, Russian Head of the BrahMos Aerospace Russia-India Joint Venture Alexander Maksichev told TASS at the LIMA 2019 arms show in Malaysia on Thursday.



    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1050952
     
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  7. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, the speed and kinetic energy are still enough to take care of some low speed target like AWACS and transporters. However, bear this in your mind: AMRAAM or R-77 are only around 150-190kg while Brahmos NG is over 1t. So, basically, a Su-30 can carry up to 12 AAMs including 6 to 8 R-77 while she can carry 3 Brahmos NG at the cost of range and manoeuvrability.
     
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  8. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Alexander Maksichev, the managing co-director of the BrahMos Aerospace company says range of #BrahMos will be increased to 500 KM and speed will be increased to more than Mach 4.5!
     
  9. armyofhind

    armyofhind Senior Member Senior Member

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    What kind of dumb logic is this?
    Range and Maneuverability is not compromised by the weapons load of the aircraft, this is especially true of the Flanker series, Su-27 onwards.
    This kind of same dumb logic was put forth by American analysts, and put right back in their asses by Russian pilots demonstrating the entire gamut of super maneuverability including the famous Cobra maneuver with a full combat load at international air shows.
     
  10. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers NaPakiRoaster Senior Member

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    Yes they are but with brahmos you're talking about the same at double the range you mentioned,and a Su30 can carry 12 aam which are needed to fired in salvo against a big asset ,while the same su can carry 5 Brahmos NG ,and still brahmos has better chances of killing one due to larger seeker ,better eccm ,and sustained speed.
     
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  11. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Firstly, so far the maximum estimation of Brahmos NG for Su-30 is 3 not 5;
    Secondly, you just keep ignoring the most important fact: the biggest challenge for any fighter jet attacking the big plane is not the plane itself but the escorting jet. With 3 Brahmos on board, the Su-30 will be vulnerable facing a pure Air-superiority loading fighter jet. When every one is busy shooting or avoiding air-to-air missile, it is hard to continue guiding the brahmos in 3+ minutes;
    Thirdly, keep this in your mind: except the sustainable speed, Brahmos is nowhere coming close to a typical air-to-air missile. The tech level of seeker, on-board computer, structure strength, maneuverability are simply not in the same level.
     
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  12. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Silly comment since with Brahmos having a very usable 450km range in Hi-Lo mode from the MKI, they will remain well beyond the reach of counter-air.
     
  13. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers NaPakiRoaster Senior Member

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    The matter of fact you keep ignoring aero india 2019,go through the tweets and brochure where it is clearly stated that Su30 will be carrying 5 Brahmos ng,Lca mk1/1a will be carrying 2 brahmos while the rafales will be carrying 3(old brochures and articles).
    with 3re or even with 5,in a war zone , squadron flies for an offensive duty and any brahmos armed Sukhoi will be escorted by others Air superiority aircrafts ,no Su or any other aircraft will be carrying Brahmos or other heavy arsenal in a CAP. The latest example of how an offensive mission works is Balakot strike where 2 aircrafts did bombing while the rest escorted the aircraft into the enemy space and latter returning to indian base. Taking out tankers or awacs is one such mission which takes offensive mission.
     
  14. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Rafale will not carry Brahmos, there is no way this will happen as long as Russia is 49% partner in this venture.
     
  15. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers NaPakiRoaster Senior Member

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  16. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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  17. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    So far, Russians only said that it is POSSIBLE to carry 5 brahmos with Su30. The reason that it is only POSSIBLE is currently Su-30 only have 3 hardpoints to carry weapons around 1.5tons. Even the latest version – the so called ultimate version - Su-35 still has only 3 such points. It means if you want to add 2 more points on Su30, you need to make a big change to the whole structure, the work load and cost required will be enormous, and it will impair the other flying characters. I doubt anyone would want to go that far.



    No, it is different.

    Firstly, the Balakot strike is a surprise strike. The whole mission was finished in a short time, the strike planes dropped the bomb and withdraw even before the Pakistan sending their jets. Actually, the escort in this strike is more about preventing being chase by opposite instead of defeating the intercepting;


    Secondly, AWACS or tankers are not ground target, they can move and very fast. Once they find Indian jets fly towards, the withdraw instruction can turn to action within seconds. In the Balakot, the targets doesn’t have such kind of link with any air-defence system, the people within the targets will requires minutes if not hours to response;


    Thirdly: there is one thing that Balakot strike share with Brahmos attacking AWACS, once the attacking group is exposed too early, they need to terminate the mission, drop the heavy bomb or brahmos and turn to sky fighting. In other words, the original mission is failed. No fighter jet can participate the air fight by carrying 3 1.5ton bomb or missiles.
     
  18. Kay

    Kay Senior Member Senior Member

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    This is how and why it may work:

    Traditional AWAC killers like Novator K100 and R37 work by inertial navigation followed by mid-course update and finally terminal active radar guidance. The mid-course update is provided by the firing aircraft but the data is provided by a friendly AWAC or ground based radar.
    With pods like HATE, secure satellite data links are available to the missile firing aircraft eliminating the need of friendly AWAC.
    Brahmos is a large enough missile to have the data link itself, eliminating the need for mid-course update by firing aircraft.
     
  19. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is a bad news for you: The statellite can't track a flying plane continuously so far. Maybe you have that tech on Mars, but on earth, we won't get there in 20 years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  20. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Such missiles have multiple guidance.
     

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