BrahMos Cruise Missile

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
4,358
Likes
7,370
Country flag
There is a bad news for you: The statellite can't track a flying plane continuously so far. Maybe you have that tech on Mars, but on earth, we won't get there in 20 years.
Long range AAM have more than one type of guidance.Satellites can track flying planes; not one satellite but a group of satellites.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kay

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
4,159
Likes
864
Country flag
Long range AAM have more than one type of guidance.Satellites can track flying planes; not one satellite but a group of satellites.
1. By flying at 7-8km/s, the target will be out of your satellite sensor range within <5 seconds. In order to support the continuing mid-guide in round 200 seconds, how many satellites will be required?
2. A group of satellites means various signal sources, there is time gap, distance gap, etc between these signals. It is a big job to integrate all these signals into one picture, which is far too complicated for a missile control computer to handle. You will need to send all these information to AWAC to process them first, then send to missile. So, we come back to the original issue - you will need AWAC to come closer to your enemy.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
4,358
Likes
7,370
Country flag
1. By flying at 7-8km/s, the target will be out of your satellite sensor range within <5 seconds. In order to support the continuing mid-guide in round 200 seconds, how many satellites will be required?
2. A group of satellites means various signal sources, there is time gap, distance gap, etc between these signals. It is a big job to integrate all these signals into one picture, which is far too complicated for a missile control computer to handle. You will need to send all these information to AWAC to process them first, then send to missile. So, we come back to the original issue - you will need AWAC to come closer to your enemy.
1. If AWACS can guide a missile, a satellite can guide it too.
2. If AWACS can see a flying plane, a satellite can see it too. Don't see any physics limitation.
3. Speed of satellite is not an issue. Missile is receiver; the information is processed somewhere else.
4. AWACS plane is not ideal in small air-space as in India-Pak context.
 

patriots

Defense lover
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
3,573
Likes
10,100
Country flag
Whats current range of brahmos.........400 km...
Or...290km
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,568
Likes
9,249
This news about Brahmos upgrade to 400kms sound very funky!
More than a year back Brahmos was tested for 450Kms in the land launched version and air-launched version!
 

THANOS

New Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
9
Likes
4
If Russia is going to remain a supplier then it cannot be more than 290km.
it is already more than 290 kms for latest varients of brahmos and the older missiles will soon be upgraded to 400 kms. russian components in the missile are being replaced by Indian made components.
the range in the earlier missiles were limited to 290kms due to software coding as India was earlier was not a member of MTCR
 

ezsasa

Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
14,420
Likes
42,581
Country flag
it is already more than 290 kms for latest varients of brahmos and the older missiles will soon be upgraded to 400 kms. russian components in the missile are being replaced by Indian made components.
the range in the earlier missiles were limited to 290kms due to software coding as India was earlier was not a member of MTCR
Will Brahmos corporation do it for free? Nope..
Will Brahmos corporation induct new range without proper testing? Nope...
How many tests happened with the new range? One
Will retrofitting new range on old missiles take place without testing? Nope...

I hope my assumptions are correct... basically I am saying some years of testing and user trails will happen.
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,568
Likes
9,249
Will Brahmos corporation do it for free? Nope..
Will Brahmos corporation induct new range without proper testing? Nope...
How many tests happened with the new range? One
Will retrofitting new range on old missiles take place without testing? Nope...

I hope my assumptions are correct...
It's expected that the range upgrade would happen with the mid-life maintenance of the missile - thus keeping the cost low.
It's unlikely that the effort would be very high nor would the testing required be extensive BECAUSE one has to remember that the ACTUAL MISSILE did indeed have 600km range (as in it was designed and fully tested for this range) but the range was artificially reduced to 290kms to comply with MTCR regulations.

There has been more than one test for the upgraded range.....
 

lcafanboy

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
3,533
Likes
12,139
Country flag
If Russia is going to remain a supplier then it cannot be more than 290km.
It was always 800kms. After joining mtcr we are just announcing it. It was masked under S-manouvre range Hi Lo ops and several other ifs and buts.....

Now don't say that Russia follows international treaties. Yes for others but no for India. For India it always circumvent rules. Look at ins chakra2, no one can buy or sell nuclear submarines but we did and Russia sold by circumventing laws by stating it's leased. Fact is for all intents and purposes it's a sale by Russia to India...
 

tsunami

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,381
Likes
3,935
Country flag
Not according to the Americans.



It never was a 290km range missile. This is such a bad secret that DRDO guys gave a PPT presentation in some IIT back in 2012 if I remember correctly which in no uncertain terms stated its range to be 400km+.
As per this presentation Brahmos range in 270 Nm or 500 KM. :brahmos:
 

sthf

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
2,271
Likes
5,244
Country flag
Statement.... as per the graph range is 270 NM. So basically agreeing to what you saying. It was always 500km range missile. Though I heard rumors of 700km range.
Thanks for the explanation.

I think 700km or 800km or whatever the peak range of Brahmos will be hasn't happened yet. But, fingers crossed.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,813
Likes
6,582
Country flag
It was always 800kms. After joining mtcr we are just announcing it. It was masked under S-manouvre range Hi Lo ops and several other ifs and buts.....

Now don't say that Russia follows international treaties. Yes for others but no for India. For India it always circumvent rules. Look at ins chakra2, no one can buy or sell nuclear submarines but we did and Russia sold by circumventing laws by stating it's leased. Fact is for all intents and purposes it's a sale by Russia to India...
Is there a press release validating that? They have no problem announcing how far Nirbhay flies and that is a nuclear missile.

There is no treaty banning the lease of nuclear submarines, the treaty covers the transfer of highly enriched uranium. The submarine is fueled and defueled by Russia so it isn't in violation.
 

lcafanboy

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
3,533
Likes
12,139
Country flag
Is there a press release validating that? They have no problem announcing how far Nirbhay flies and that is a nuclear missile.

There is no treaty banning the lease of nuclear submarines, the treaty covers the transfer of highly enriched uranium. The submarine is fueled and defueled by Russia so it isn't in violation.
How would we acknowledge with press release when the deal is wink wink or hush hush and circumventing mtcr.

Nirbhay is home grown yet the range is under reported just like agni 5 which is 8000kms as reported by even china but india accepts only 5000kms range.
There's no treaty banning lease of nuclear submarines and that loop hole was used by India and Russia to complete sale. The deal has clause that at the end of agreement India has options to buy ins chakra2. This is keeping in view of international laws treaties are amended if not we can and will continue with extension of deal. As far as refueling is concerned we have HEU but if Russia refuels it we save our HEU for other use, regarding cost, even if we do it, it will cost almost same. So why not let OEM do it. And this govt unlike commission eater CONgress is demanding pound of flesh in terms of technology transfer for every defence deal given to any country. Just check what is demand list of technology transfer for 426 T-90 tanks even Russians are sweating seeing demands....
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,813
Likes
6,582
Country flag
How would we acknowledge with press release when the deal is wink wink or hush hush and circumventing mtcr.
I have never given much credence to wink wink hush hush deals. I have read all of the test results which are all under 290km. If it isn't tested past that, it isn't validated past that.

Nirbhay is home grown yet the range is under reported just like agni 5 which is 8000kms as reported by even china but india accepts only 5000kms range.
It is not so hard to accept the published 1000km results of Nirbhay as it uses a French Microturbo for testing. The limits of which are well known.

There's no treaty banning lease of nuclear submarines and that loop hole was used by India and Russia to complete sale. The deal has clause that at the end of agreement India has options to buy ins chakra2. This is keeping in view of international laws treaties are amended if not we can and will continue with extension of deal. As far as refueling is concerned we have HEU but if Russia refuels it we save our HEU for other use, regarding cost, even if we do it, it will cost almost same. So why not let OEM do it. And this govt unlike commission eater CONgress is demanding pound of flesh in terms of technology transfer for every defence deal given to any country. Just check what is demand list of technology transfer for 426 T-90 tanks even Russians are sweating seeing demands....
As I stated, it was done within the limits of the treaty as Russia is the only one handling the HEU.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top