Why Germany lost WW2?

[MiG-29SMT]

so I am starting this thread to discuss what could be the possible reasons for Nazi Germany defeat in WW2. Members are free to give their opinion or points which they think cause the final downfall of the third Reich or sealed it's fate.

there could be no. of reasons --- which can be further elaborated. anyone can add more points if they want.

• invasion of Soviet Union.
• germany underestimation of Soviet reserve's.
• incompetency of Hitler & German higher command.
• not investing in navy.
• declaring war on US.
• operation Uranus( destruction of 6th army).
•Bagration ( destruction of army group center).
• lack of oil.

In my personal opinion it's was moving Guderian 2nd panzer south for encirclement of Kiev which sealed Wehrmacht fate as it delayed offensive on Moscow & it's captured before winter.

anyone watching this thread. You are free to add your opinion or points you think were responsible for German defeat.

Hitler made several mistakes, since I know how Spain conquered Latin America I can compare why Spain succeed while Germany failed'


Any true empire needs to be friendly to its subdits, Germany became hated, most Europeans hated the German racists policies, Spain conquered the Spirits of those conquered, Hitler did not.


The USA has used the same policy with Hollywood and the English language,


Any empire leaves some degree freedom and dignity to its colonies, so the local native authorities are willing to cooperate.

Hitler did not do that especially against the Russians, the Soviet Union got more united after the attack.


And military speaking Hitler rushed.

Spain conquered all its colonies in 150 years, it never Rushed destroyed each enemy at a time.

Hitler did not do that, attacked several enemies at a time.

The USA destroyed first Germany and Japan, and after that went against Russia and China, it is very likely it will destroy first Russia and later China.


any empire attacks and isolate its enemies

 

[LurkerBaba]

Upgrade done. Going to restore some posts manually. FYI notifications will show my name

 

[LurkerBaba]

Moved OT posts here https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/the-spanish-empire-an-evaluation.82179/

 

[Knowitall]

At the end of the day hitler managed to do destroy the british empire and lay the foundation for the new germany as we know it.

Germany might have lost the war but the battle was won they got their territories back they managed to escape from the treaty of Versailles.

They managed to end the british empire thus weakening britain they have a equal standing with other countries now.

Today germany with the whole EU charade influences europe to such a magnitude something hitler in the end couldn't do.

They were ready to kick Greece out of the eurozone and no country could dare question them.

They economic measures have made sure they have established control over europe without firing a single shot.

Germany in the end got what they wishes for one way or the other.

 

[asianobserve]

Spoiler: Spoiler

View attachment 47379

I myself like Israeli people a lot no disrespect to those who died in the genocide. Yes Hitler was mad idiot who killed people in gas chamber but i humbly believe that in Africa people for centuries suffered under slavery leave Africa even in india under mughal rule millions of people died genocide was targeted towards Hindus those rejected the Islam women were snatched kids were killed not even in war they were killed because they feared a rebellion it was just a targeted religion based assault just like what Hitler did with jews. Number of dead in india is in millions
Hitler style genocide under ottoman empire also happened Armenian genocide in which 1.5-2 million civilians were killed because ottoman ruler thought that they will rebel against their rule. But did the turkey ever apologized for that no.

History of injustice mass Killing genocide + human made famine which caused deaths is very old with very mad people some are documented well some are not.

The kind and level of barbarism inflicted on other humans are more or less uniform across many tribes, kingdoms, empires or countries depending upon the era or period concerned. But in the 1940s nobody were anymore hunting slaves in Africa or simply murdering millions of people just because of their religious or ethnic backgrounds. The concept of human rights and rule of law were already well established especially in Europe.

Besides, Hitler knew of the illegality of their Jewish question final solution (holocaust program) that's why he and the SS went to great lengths to hide the concentration/extermination camps, and the corpses. This should tell you that Hitler was well aware of the unacceptability of his Jewish actions. So only people who are of demented minds can justify his unprecedented (in human history) barbarity towards the Jews.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

But in the 1940s nobody were anymore hunting slaves in Africa or simply murdering millions of people just because of their religious or ethnic backgrounds. The concept of human rights and rule of law were already well established especially in Europe.

So we forget all the old crimes?
You wanna say that hitler is biggest mass killer in the history but don't wanna acknowledge the one's happened in the past? This is a flawed logic.

 

[asianobserve]

So we forget all the old crimes?
You wanna say that hitler is biggest mass killer in the history but don't wanna acknowledge the one's happened in the past? This is a flawed logic.

Not a flawed logic. Do you think the tribe chieftains in Africa (yes, African slaves were hunted first by Africans themselves and sold to European or Middle Eastern slave traders) in the 16th century have the same Worldview or concepts of right and wrong and more importantly what's legal or not as you now? I don't think so.

We have now the wisdom of thousands of years of written history, advancements in science and education, which as far as the concepts of right and wrong and legality are concerned should not be too different from people living in WW2 (a lot of whom are still alive now), that should make us automatically know that people cannot be generalized by classes, skin color, ethnicity or religion, and that no matter the color, ethnicity, economic class and religion, every single person is entitled to the same civil rights, and rights to be secure in their life and possessions. Even in the 30s and 40s people knew that you cannot just stab someone on the street just because you percieve them to be different than you.

Anyway, murdering babies, old people, children, mothers, invalid, just because they are Jewish or of Indian decent (gypsies) could never be justified in the 1940s as it cannot be justified now.

 

[asianobserve]

So we forget all the old crimes?
You wanna say that hitler is biggest mass killer in the history but don't wanna acknowledge the one's happened in the past? This is a flawed logic.

We don't forget old crimes crimes. We should remember amd understand them so as not to commit the same crimes again.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Not a flawed logic. Do you think the tribe chieftains in Africa (yes, African slaves were hunted first by Africans themselves and sold to European or Middle Eastern slave traders) in the 16th century have the same Worldview or concepts of right and wrong and more importantly what's legal or not as you now? I don't think so.

We have now the wisdom of thousands of years of written history, advancements in science and education, which as far as the concepts of right and wrong and legality are concerned should not be too different from people living in WW2 (a lot of whom are still alive now), that should make us automatically know that people cannot be generalized by classes, skin color, ethnicity or religion, and that no matter the color, ethnicity, economic class and religion, every single person is entitled to the same civil rights, and rights to be secure in their life and possessions. Even in the 30s and 40s people knew that you cannot just stab someone on the street just because you percieve them to be different than you.

Anyway, murdering babies, old people, children, mothers, invalid, just because they are Jewish or of Indian decent (gypsies) could never be justified in the 1940s as it cannot be justified now.

Half of world was under colonial when WW2 was going on do you know what india called colonial rule? It was called as slavery. And these were the imperial people which committed humongous crimes to build their empire's no one was doodh ka dhula. Even after thousands of years of history people at that time were killing to establish colonial rule on the countries. If one part of the world is having rule of law and bs and others are not sovereign it shows how imperial empire's it was a war between imperial empire's which ruthlessly killed humans in different parts of the world then it was justified?

The point is you cannot claim that it was only hitler who killed people and did different types of crimes the imperial empires which were fighting against him did many crimes like that to establish their own rule and law.
This was the dilemma which india suffered. Remeber Gandhi was against hitler but subhash chandra bose one of the biggest icon of india shake hands with Japanese and Germans because of from their point of view all of these were imperial power.
And subhash chandra bose remains India's one of the biggest iconic freedom fighter.

 

[Tactical Frog]

History of injustice mass Killing genocide + human made famine which caused deaths is very old with very mad people some are documented well some are not.

So true ... that is why it is a complicate task to argue that Hitler’s crimes have set new standards for genocide.

Armenian genocide is real and unforgivable. The slight difference I can see is that the Turks were only motivated by ethnic cleansing of their territory. They never depicted the Armenians as a rat like subhuman species that should be simply terminated. So Armenians living outside Turkish territory were safe from harm. The nazis, on the other side, started to kill Jews everywhere they could find them, country after country. It was called the final solution for a reason.

About Mughals and other Muslims rulers in India, I certainly have a lot to learn. It seems that how cruel they were, they were not consciously pursuing genocide goals on religious basis. Forced conversion is a vicious crime but at least it gives people a chance to save their own lives. Did the Mughals edict special laws against Hindus ? The method is very important here.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Stay on topics folks. Please see the thread title

I've shifted posts to these two threads:

Who is the most Evil individual from the 20th century ?

If we consider the last quarter of the millennium, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab could be a very strong contender.

defenceforumindia.com

Bengal Famine - Churchill deliberately let millions of Indians starve to death

Hunger, starvation and Indian soldiers in World War II 5 min read . 08 Nov 2019 Diya Gupta On the 80th anniversary of the start the war, we need to look beyond a narrative glorifying it as a fight against fascism Understanding the Bengal famine of 1943 as a product of World War II is crucial to...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[WARREN SS]

Germany Want To achieve many objectives in short term

But there are many Weapons that Might have achieved Germany victory if they were introduced 4-5 year ago

Such as
Messerschmitt Me 262 First Jet Fighter

Or StG 44

u-2540

 

[asianobserve]

The bigger question is that why did Hitler not attract more allies, especially powerful allies in Europe bar authoritarian characters like Mossulini and Stalin (the latter he double crossed)?

Hitler would have been more successful if he had more allies.

 

[no smoking]

At the end of the day hitler managed to do destroy the british empire and lay the foundation for the new germany as we know it.

Destroying the british empire was never their target.
The so called new germany is the one has beening living under the mercy of USA and Russia.

Germany might have lost the war but the battle was won they got their territories back they managed to escape from the treaty of Versailles.

Really? Before they enterd into Austria, in 1937, the land size of German was 468 787 km². Today their size is 357,022 km2 .

They managed to end the british empire thus weakening britain they have a equal standing with other countries now.

Yes, both stand under the finger of US.

Today germany with the whole EU charade influences europe to such a magnitude something hitler in the end couldn't do.

Somthing that Hitler would be shamed to achieve: even the smallest countries can blackmail Germany.

They were ready to kick Greece out of the eurozone and no country could dare question them.

Really? Let's check: Greece is still there; Italy is threatening to quite if they don't see the cheque; Eastern erupeans are laughing at their immigrants policy. Oh, wait, British just quite out with a good deal.

They economic measures have made sure they have established control over europe without firing a single shot.

Sure, they don't need to firing a single shot since no one is complaining as long as Germany is paying everyone's bill.

 

[no smoking]

The bigger question is that why did Hitler not attract more allies, especially powerful allies in Europe bar authoritarian characters like Mossulini and Stalin (the latter he double crossed)?

Hitler would have been more successful if he had more allies.

You should ask yourselves: how can he get mor allies? His political/economic policy could be decribed as: pointing the gun on everyone's head and force everyone to handout his or her output without being paid. I dont think his neighbour will like the idea.

 

[asianobserve]

You should ask yourselves: how can he get mor allies? His political/economic policy could be decribed as: pointing the gun on everyone's head and force everyone to handout his or her output without being paid. I dont think his neighbour will like the idea.

He did not hide his barbaric ideology. There was nothing morally upright there that Democratic countries in Europe could latch unto. Nazis simply was a very angry, inward and selfish and an outrightly evil movement. Only the authoritarian ones could accept it, albeit warily. But these were often weak allies. And not all authoritarians in Europe sided with Hitler, Franco and Tito did not.

 

[bose]

Biggest reason for Germany's loss was it war strategy to fight all at the same time. Attack on Russia was biggest stupidity...

 

[asianobserve]

Biggest reason for Germany's loss was it war strategy to fight all at the same time. Attack on Russia was biggest stupidity...

The first biggest mistake he made was to lie about not invading Poland despite a written promise to the French and Brits. From that time on no non-Axis power would ever trust Hitler again. And the sudden invasion of his own ally the USSR sealed Hitler's fate as an absolute liar, land grabber, ruthless warmonger who will not be satisfied until he gets the whole of Europe under German control. The Aryan race after all was supreme, Jews, Slavs and whoever else are damned.

 

[Knowitall]

Destroying the british empire was never their target.
The so called new germany is the one has beening living under the mercy of USA and Russia.



Really? Before they enterd into Austria, in 1937, the land size of German was 468 787 km². Today their size is 357,022 km2 .



Yes, both stand under the finger of US.



Somthing that Hitler would be shamed to achieve: even the smallest countries can blackmail Germany.



Really? Let's check: Greece is still there; Italy is threatening to quite if they don't see the cheque; Eastern erupeans are laughing at their immigrants policy. Oh, wait, British just quite out with a good deal.



Sure, they don't need to firing a single shot since no one is complaining as long as Germany is paying everyone's bill.

Wrong on so many levels.

First what i meant to say was the war had led to the collapse of the british empire while not the primary objective it did help achieve a lot.

Mercy of Russia and USA lol is russia even a threat you need to look at nato devlopment and see who has a more aggressive posture.

Europe in its current form is more than enough to handle Russia US is just overkill.

Now for mercy of US I don't understand germany is openly challenging US by developing a gas pipeline with russia bypassing Poland to nullify there leverage and US can't do anything about it.
Just like the s-400 case with India.

Yes my bad I should have been specific I was talking about eastern germany.


Small countries can blackmail germany the whole migrant crises has shown us about who is blackmailing whom.

I think you should have atleast researched a bit before answering

Greece is still there did you even understand what I am talking about when Greece was suffering with an economic crises they were given an option by germany either you follow our austerity measures or you get out of the EU.

Those austerity measures were so bad that. Greeks couldn't even take out more than 60 euros in a day.

Greece held a referendum its people rejected this france tried to pressure germany into softening it's position. Germany didn't stop they introduced even harsher measures which Greece would have to accept or they can leave the euro. These measures were much harsher than those rejected by the people in Greece a few days ago.

So that's why Greece is still in Europe you get it.

It's because they ended up accepting those harsher measures.

Most people tend to forget but behind the heavy rehotic of Poland against immigration when Luxembourg finally decided to pass a bill when asked by germany in EU parliament which was called after germany said that everyone would have to take their fair share of migrants or would suffer penalties.

Poland did not vote against germany they ended up voting in favor or germany accepting the migrant deal so yes you are wrong here too.

In the case of italy I will once again asked you to take a look at the policies enforced at them and how they have become a dumping ground for migrants.

Germany paying everyone's bill?

https://www.thelocal.de/20180621/germany-made-billions-on-greeces-debt-crisis-berlin-confirms

They are massively profiting lol what are you on about.

Germany along with the dutch and their safe haven have looted the south to full extend.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Germany might have lost the war but the battle was won they got their territories back they managed to escape from the treaty of Versailles.

Listen @Knowitall, if you know nothing about Europe maps after and before WWII , I seriously advice you to contact a moderator and change your handle.
1945 capitulation was worse for Germany than Versailles if you just look at maps.