Warriors of Gujarat

Virendra

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
4,697
Likes
3,041
Country flag
Solankis, Chauhans, and Gohils all most likely have their origins in modern Rajasthan. If these Rajputs are "native" to Gujarat, then I can claim Chalukyas and Rashtrakutas as "natives" of Andhra.
Gohils are from Guhaditya whose father was ruling Vallabhi (Gujarat) at the time it was sacked by a persian raid. His mother was on pilgrimage at/near Mount Abu. Given the circumstances, she gave birth to him in a cave there and he was aptly named Guhaditya.
This is from what the Mewar house tells about their geneological history. Directly from the horse's mouth I guess.
 

TrueSpirit

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,893
Likes
841
I am sure there could be commonality of Gotras, but no Sikh source attests to his Brahmin origins, whether contemporary or recent.
P. N. Bali. History of Mohyals. He calls him Mohyal Brahman.

Wiki:

Giani Budh Singh a noted scholar of Poonch in his famous book Chhowen Rattan described Banda Bahadur as "Brahmin"
I have thought of him as orifinally being Lakshman Dev Bhardwaj, but now I am not sure. Anyway, it is impossible to verify, so lets leave this OT discussion.
 

TrueSpirit

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,893
Likes
841
Okay, this is OT but with serves an important purpose in this thread
*********************************************************************************************************************

Why I cannot find the name of most respected nation, almighty Iran, the beloved of @civfanatic in this list ?

And, why is it that ignominious, minnow India (including North India.................. blasphemy !!!) tops the list (2nd in projected Growth & 4th in GDP PPP)



Enough to show Iran's place in the world compared to ours.

Hope that DFI's resident hatemonger & self-proclaimed historian would learn some facts about reality. And, stop pitting Indians (our ancestors) against each other.


@civfanatic In the interest of the thread & in the name of all that is Holy to you in the world (Persians, Han, whosoever), do not again bait people by your insane vitriolic, delusional fuming's because people have better things to do than keep instilling sense in your gripe-infested skull.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

thakur_ritesh

New Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,435
Likes
1,733
Well as I am near on 6ft and my son 6ft 3, I will ignore the jibe. But on a more academic note do Gujarati Rajputs eat meat, or Rajputs in general for that matter?
when reading the following book (not specific to Gujarat) it states that historically, at least for Parmar royalty, meat was part of the diet?

History of the Paramaras - Krishna Narain Seth - Google Books
Afaik Rajputs generally do consume meat and alcohol. @Virendra @thakur_ritesh @jatkshatriya would know better.
My experience suggests Rajputs in general eat non-veg food and drink alcohol. Rarely would one find who don't but those have to be pretty rare cases.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TrueSpirit

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,893
Likes
841
My experience suggests Rajputs in general eat non-veg food and drink alcohol. Rarely would one find who don't but those have to be pretty rare cases.
More than community (Rajput), these habits would depend on the economic situation, family values/family tradition/family-occupation, societal acceptance levels, external factors (cultural influences: peer pressure, media etc.) & personal preferences e.g. maybe, health, taste, allergy, aversion :)

In middle-class, this propensity could be somewhat lower than in Upper & Lower classes (economic classes, I mean).
 

TrueSpirit

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,893
Likes
841
My experience suggests Rajputs in general eat non-veg food and drink alcohol. Rarely would one find who don't but those have to be pretty rare cases.
Regarding eating non-veg, you are right but I have many friends who don't.

Regarding Alcohol- Well, lets just say only a minor fraction of the Rajputs I know, consume alcohol (except for the ones in Armed forces or those hailing from hills). Most of these guys are extremely health/shape-conscious & working-out types so they do not even touch beer under any circumstance/celebration.

So, I would say it is mostly personal preference, above anything else.
 

thakur_ritesh

New Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,435
Likes
1,733
Well as I am near on 6ft and my son 6ft 3, I will ignore the jibe. But on a more academic note do Gujarati Rajputs eat meat, or Rajputs in general for that matter?
when reading the following book (not specific to Gujarat) it states that historically, at least for Parmar royalty, meat was part of the diet?

History of the Paramaras - Krishna Narain Seth - Google Books
Regarding eating non-veg, you are right but I have many friends who don't.

Regarding Alcohol- Well, lets just say only a minor fraction of the Rajputs I know, consume alcohol (except for the ones in Armed forces or those hailing from hills). Most of these guys are extremely health/shape-conscious & working-out types so they do not even touch beer under any circumstance/celebration.

So, I would say it is mostly personal preference, above anything else.
In my family everyone eats non-veg, also in extended families. As a matter of fact, on my wife's side, they are all very heavy non-veg eaters, also very heavy drinkers. Anyways, as you say, it could be a hill thing. But in my personal experience, I haven't come across many who don't.
 

LalTopi

New Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
583
Likes
311
Regarding eating non-veg, you are right but I have many friends who don't.

Regarding Alcohol- Well, lets just say only a minor fraction of the Rajputs I know, consume alcohol (except for the ones in Armed forces or those hailing from hills). Most of these guys are extremely health/shape-conscious & working-out types so they do not even touch beer under any circumstance/celebration.

So, I would say it is mostly personal preference, above anything else.
Precisely, is it down to personal preference or does the community apply strong social/religious pressure against meat and alcohol? In my experience - which is limited so happy to learn others' views - rajput communities put it down to preference with no strong pressure against eating non-veg, although quite a few are veg out of choice. In other communities there is strong pressure to be seen as pious and hence vegetarian and abstaining. This is even in the so called 'lower castes' through the process of Sanskritization Sanskritization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and pressure to emulate Brahmin practices. Such pressure appears to be stronger in Gujarat, presumably due to the influence of Jain culture.
 

LalTopi

New Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
583
Likes
311
In my family everyone eats non-veg, also in extended families. As a matter of fact, on my wife's side, they are all very heavy non-veg eaters, also very heavy drinkers. Anyways, as you say, it could be a hill thing. But in my personal experience, I haven't come across many who don't.
You must have some great parties when you visit the in-laws.
 

civfanatic

Retired
New Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
Get this to your thick skull that Rajputs successfully defended India for 500 years while your Persian Gods capitulated within no time & got converted en-masse to the religion of their vanquishers.

Sorry, but the reality is that most of North India was ruled by foreigners from the 13th century all the way to the 18th century. And yes, many of those foreigners and nobles were Persians.

And after 500 years, when the first Muslim made a decisive inroad/permanent base into India was not any Persian but Ghori who hailed from Ghor. Now, learn some geography & find out where Ghor lies.
Ultimately, the Muslims who conquered India were Central Asians (CIS nation of today)/Turks/Turko-Mongol clans, never the Persians.
:rofl:

Ghor is in easternmost Iran. It is in Afghanistan today, but Afghanistan is an artificial entity and did not exist in the 12th century. The Ghorids were most likely of Iranian descent and spoke Persian. Even today, the Persian language is spoken by the natives of the region. Furthermore, the Ghorid rulers came from a family with a distinctly Persian name, the Sansabanis.


Except for Nadir Shah, no Persian imperialist has even set foot on this side of Indus
Darius the Great

Persians were Arab-slaves then, as they are today.
Most Persians despise Arabs, and they fought a total war against the Arab world just a couple decades ago.


Regarding current geo-polity, do you even know India has always supported US sanctions against Iran ? India does not trusts Iran (Iran has always helped Pakistan against India till 1980 & their nuke co-operation continued till much longer) & India would never allow it to develop nuke.
Iran only helped Pakistan after its democratically elected government was overthrown and a Western puppet shah was installed.


Iran has no hard power & when it comes to hard power, they are even worse-off than Pakistan & you have the gall to compare Iran with India.
Pakistan could not last two weeks in a sustained war, as shown in 1971.

Iran lasted for 8 years.


Tip: Do not venture into geopolitics & military-history related discussions; you have no idea & you are not ready yet.
You should follow your own advice.
 

civfanatic

Retired
New Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
Iran got completely vanquished & Islamized in no time. It became a Islamic nation in 11 years (everyone either converted, fled, got killed). Native Zoroastrianism got obliterated for eternity.
Iran became an Islamic nation in 11 years :rofl:

By making such ignorant statements, you are only making yourself look like a fool. As I said before, you lack knowledge of history.

It was not until the 11th century that a large majority of the Persian population became Muslim, and this Islamization was done under native Persian dynasties, not under Arab rule. In some parts, like Ghor, Islam did not become predominant until the 12th century.


Islam could not get a permanent footland in India till 1192. Nearly 500 years of successful resistance.
Wrong. Sind was permanently lost in the 8th century, and has remained under Muslim rule for the last 1300 years.


Even today, India is Hindu-majority country with 85% + Hindu religion.
There are more Muslims in North India than in Iran.

I'm not even taking into consideration Pakistan and Bangladesh, both of which were historically a part of North India.
 

civfanatic

Retired
New Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
Okay, this is OT but with serves an important purpose in this thread
*********************************************************************************************************************

Why I cannot find the name of most respected nation, almighty Iran, the beloved of @civfanatic in this list ?

And, why is it that ignominious, minnow India (including North India.................. blasphemy !!!) tops the list (2nd in projected Growth & 4th in GDP PPP)



Enough to show Iran's place in the world compared to ours.

Hope that DFI's resident hatemonger & self-proclaimed historian would learn some facts about reality. And, stop pitting Indians (our ancestors) against each other.


@civfanatic In the interest of the thread & in the name of all that is Holy to you in the world (Persians, Han, whosoever), do not again bait people by your insane vitriolic, delusional fuming's because people have better things to do than keep instilling sense in your gripe-infested skull.
Oh God, you really want me to do this!

Give me the name of any North Indian state, and I will do a comparative analysis of socioeconomic indicators between that state and Iran. The results should make you shut up.

Also, the graph is wrong. Iran's GDP in terms of PPP is around $1 trillion ($1000 bn).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Simple_Guy

New Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
938
Likes
578
The true Persians protected by Gujarati warriors



after the Arab conquest of Iran, the ancestors of the present Indian Parsis took refuge in the mountainous districts of Kohistan in Khorasan for about 100 years. They spent about 15 years in the port city of Hormuzd on the southern coast of Iran, possibly contemplating migration. They finally left Hormuzd by the sea route and landed in India on the island of Div in southern Saurashtra. They stayed in Div for about 19 years, and thereafter, most probably due to the growing threat of an Arab invasion, left Div and settled on the west coast of India, near the place later to be known as Sanjan about 145 kilometers north of Mumbai.

There is again no evidence whatsoever as to how many immigrants actually came via the sea route. There is some evidence that the immigrants came with their families. Some accounts state that about 18,000 Parsis came in seven junks, five of them landing in Div, one at Variav near Surat and one at Cambay in Gujarat. Subsequently, more Parsis migrated from Iran and landed at various places on the West Coast of India. These various and gradual migrations might be the cause of inconsistency and confusion regarding the date of arrival and the landing place.

The local Hindu Rajah, known as Jadi Rana, permitted the Parsis to settle in his kingdom and gave them a vacant area in which they could establish their colony. Tradition states that the Parsis named their new settlement "Sanjan", after the cities bearing the same name in Iran. They installed their Holy Fire, whom they named Iranshah or the King of Iran.

After 700 years of peaceful and prosperous stay in Sanjan, the Hindu kingdom was invaded by a fanatical Muslim named Sultan Mahmud Begada of Ahmedabad. About 1400 Parsis joined the army of the Hindu Rajah and fought valiantly to rid their land of the Muslim invader. Unfortunately, the Rajah s army was defeated and Sanjan was destroyed, the Parsis suffering much loss of life.

Those Parsis who survived the attack on Sanjan gradually migrated to other places within Gujarat and the West Coast. Their important settlements besides Sanjan were Navsari, Surat, Vankaner, Variav, Ansleshvar, Bharuch and Cambay to the north of Sanjan and Thana to the south.
Tenets
 

PredictablyMalicious

Punjabi
Banned
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,715
Likes
650
This thread sucks. Bunch of haters insulting North Indians except sikhs because a Sikh is a mod. A bunch of wannabes.
 

TrueSpirit

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,893
Likes
841
Oh God, you really want me to do this!

Give me the name of any North Indian state, and I will do a comparative analysis of socioeconomic indicators between that state and Iran. The results should make you shut up.
Last I checked, there was no nation-state by the name North India. Iran is.
Absurd logic, you forte.
Better luck next time.

Also, the graph is wrong. Iran's GDP in terms of PPP is around $1 trillion ($1000 bn).
Yes, World Bank released data, based on which nations formulate their development plans & enter into treaties/agreements is false, while your made-up data is credible. Another masterstroke.

By the way, did you check Growth Projections ?

What about India reducing its import from Iran & sourcing its need from non-terrorist nations ? Read, listen, understand & then, post. Otherwise, you remain your usual BS.

Iran has nothing to offer except oil/gas, for which total credit goes to Western oil exploration corporations (check your history, again). Apart from Hezbollah & your Persian flying carpet :lol: they having nothing to speak of. Extremist retards ruled by suicidal regimes cannot be expected to do any better. India has voted to sanction Iran. That should suffice.

You want to derail thread with your relentless di**-measuring (between a terrorist nation & world's largest democracy), all the best. Your are only revealing your sanity.
 

TrueSpirit

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,893
Likes
841
Iran became an Islamic nation in 11 years :rofl:

By making such ignorant statements, you are only making yourself look like a fool. As I said before, you lack knowledge of history.

:lol: What a retard. Check what happened to them in 11 years after Islamic conquest of Persia. Then check again, if there was a Islamic regime inside India after 11 years of Muslim attack.

How many Zoroastrians in Iran ? How many Hindu in India ?

You are fighting a lost battle. You have been exposed quite early.

Wrong. Sind was permanently lost in the 8th century, and has remained under Muslim rule for the last 1300 years.
Yes, Sindh was India. Rest of Indian landmass/Indian people never existed :rofl: Shows you perverted sense of geography :rofl:


There are more Muslims in North India than in Iran.I'm not even taking into consideration Pakistan and Bangladesh, both of which were historically a part of North India.
India hosts 1/6th of humanity. There are around 85% Hindus + indigenous religions in India. What % is Zoroastrian in Iran ?

There in, you have been busted again, for the n'th time. But since you love getting pummeled so much, please carry on.
 

TrueSpirit

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,893
Likes
841
Sorry, but the reality is that most of North India was ruled by foreigners from the 13th century all the way to the 18th century. And yes, many of those foreigners and nobles were Persians.
Sorry, but what happened between 664 CE to 1191 AD in India. Ignore that, huh.

Apparently, reality is too harsh on Persian a**-lic**rs.

Ghor is in easternmost Iran. It is in Afghanistan today, but Afghanistan is an artificial entity and did not exist in the 12th century. The Ghorids were most likely of Iranian descent and spoke Persian. Even today, the Persian language is spoken by the natives of the region. Furthermore, the Ghorid rulers came from a family with a distinctly Persian name, the Sansabanis.
By our twisted logic, since most of Af-stan falls in to Persian theater of influence (cultural), so Af-stan must be Persia, not Af-stan. Let me get you around the fact that Iran itself is an artificial entity drawn up by the West. It is a Persian super-state. Ghori was an Afghan.

Darius the Great
Your first quality argument in this thread. Why it is so hard doing it more often ?

Most Persians despise Arabs, and they fought a total war against the Arab world just a couple decades ago.
Obviously they will despise. What else can they do. Arabs finished them off & turned them into Muslims. Arabs literally rap*d these minnows within no time & got them to convert. Iranians can only whine & rant. Iranians of today are carriers of the desert cult that had ra**d them 1300 years ago.

The best sissy Persians have done is issuing empty threats against Israel's existence; against whom Persians are pussies. Even Israel would have put this terrorist nation to its place within no time, if not for Uncle's lever. Just wait. After Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya & Syria, Iran is next.

Countdown already started the moment they acknowledged their nuke programme. That pretext is enough of Americans to cull sissy Persians.


Iran only helped Pakistan after its democratically elected government was overthrown and a Western puppet shah was installed.
India does not allow a nuke-armed Iran. It has been categorically stated & amply demonstrated. Terrorists cannot have nukes. India's policy. India voted for SANCTIONING these sissies.


Pakistan could not last two weeks in a sustained war, as shown in 1971.
Yes, Pakis are the only ones worth comparing with Iran.

1) Both extremist nations

2) Ruled by terrorist regimes

3) Thekedaars of Islam, so typical of slave nations

4) No modern achievement to speak of.....Oh, am I missing something...how about flying carpets.

Iran lasted for 8 years.
Against whom ?.............. Iraq ? :rofl:

Pakis fought with India. And see, what happened to this flag-bearer of Islam.

Worse would happen to Iran within 1 week (in a hypothetical situation with half of Iran lying to India's east,as was Pakis case with Bangla lying to India's east).

Slave nations like Pakis & Iran, who consider themselves to be the flag-bearer of Islam are doomed in the civilized world. So, these terrorist nations would soon be shown their place. They might have a hazy present but they have no future.

Do you want to see where the future lies ? Check the World Bank report I shared & see which countries top the list (India is there, but there is no North or South India; so unfortunate for a medieval regionalist like you).

Check any report in the world. India would be there. No North or South India.

Welcome to reality :rofl:
 

LalTopi

New Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
583
Likes
311
The true Persians protected by Gujarati warriors




Tenets
Is there any truth in the below Parsi account? Did Parsi women really defeat Rajput warriors?

The Tragedy at Variav:

On one occasion, the Rajput ruler demanded a higher tribute from the Parsis of Variav, near Surat. When the Rajah sent his troops to collect the dues, they were repelled by the Parsis. A bigger force was sent on another occasion when the Parsi men were away to an out-of-town feast. This compelled the parsi women to take up arms against the Rajah s men. They fought bravely and were on the point of winning, when a woman s helmet dropped exposing her hair. Seeing this the Rajput soldiers made a frenzied charge and the women preferring death to dishonor heroically leapt into the nearby Tapti River and drowned. Roj Ashishwangh, Mah Fravardin is commemorated even today in honor of the Parsi women who sacrificed themselves at Variav.
 

Virendra

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
4,697
Likes
3,041
Country flag
Sorry, but the reality is that most of North India was ruled by foreigners from the 13th century all the way to the 18th century.
I disagree. Turks only had regional Kingdoms in north India just like the natives and like I said before they were struggling, not exactly ruling properly as Imperials would. When one rules a place, they record it as a revenue tract or establish their minister and premanent garrison there. Also their rule in that place should be corroborated by local epigraphic evidence like coins, inscriptions etc.
These don't hold true for "most of North India" with the Turkish hypothesis. Reality is that Turks were mostly confined in town and forts surrounded by numerous native chieftains in the country side. So neither the patchy rule was pan north india, nor its was "all the way to the 18th century."

R C Majumdar : As a matter of fact, the Muslim authority in Northern India, throughout the 13th century, was tantamount to a military occupation of a large number of important centres without any effective occupation, far less a systematic administration of the country at large.

Even till the end of 14th century, we know with surity that the lands of the Delhi Sultanate still were dominated by Rajput and Jat chieftains.
Timur himself testifies to this when he mentions about fighting fellow Muslims only outside the gates of Delhi; but mentions of fighting Jat and Rajput chieftains while passing through Multan, Bhatner, Jammu and Kangra regions.

For Mughals I can agree. They did it differently and thus succeeded. They forged alliances (though that is not the only reason for their success).

If Turks had been so succesfull in north India:
a) We would see much higher muslim population, given the time they had (more than 3 centuries)
b) Babur would not have to fight any serious wars in north India after getting rid of Lodi.
c) The likes of Hammir, Ranmal, Kumbha and Sanga (right next to Delhi-Agra) would not sustain against the Turks for centuries.
d) They would not keep the Turkish Kings & Princes captive on many occasions, that too for months.
e) They would not defeat Sultanates and Khanzadas in battles on all sides (Gwalior, Malwa, Gujarat & Mewat).
f) Sanga would not be breathing down the neck of Lodi, after defeating him twice; having Peela Khal near Agra as his northern boundary. Would like to remind here that Lodis had Agra as their capital !!
g) Kumbha would not raze the Nagor Sultanate down to ground, destroying mosques and forts alike.
h) Mandals of villages would not be harrassing the Turkish garrisons at their bases whenever the latter's main forces were drawn out in battles against organized Rajput forces.
g) We would not see native Kings stamping their own coins, inscriptions, sanctioning construction of temples, ponds etc. Only militarily and financially sovereign, capable States do that.
h) Both sides would not be wresting forts from each other time and again.
i) Kashmir and hill states of Himachal Pradesh wouldn't be out of reach for Turks till 1354 A.D.

Except Iltutmish and Alauddin Khilji (total 45 years), none of the Turks were able to hold sway over majority of north India.
Further, when Khaljis tried to expand into south, they were melted up in north. Jaisalmer, Chittor, and Siwana were lost quickly. Mewar and Marwar went out of reach due to heavy guerrilla warfare. By 1388 even Ajmer and Nagaur were taken back as native Kingdoms and by the beginning of 15th century Jhunjunu near Delhi was regulary raided by the armies of Rana Lakha, emanating from south Rajasthan.
Rana Kshetra Singh defeated Malwa Turks in 1389. 14th century is full of rebellions in Gujarat, Sindh, Deccan and Bengal.
And for when Kumbha came in 15th century, I've already covered the consequences.

Swiftness of Turkish success in Gangetic plains is owing to:
1) Destruction of existing Kingdoms there and lack of clan hierarchies and federation to sustain resistance
2) Conducive geography of the region; native powers devoid of defensive cushion that Mewar and Hilly states had.
3) Lack of quality standing cavalry and forts to match Turkish assaults blow to blow.
Indo-gangetic administrative and military hierarchy forms sort of a sequel of defeats in Dahir (Sindh) and Gakkhars (Punjab) cases.

But elsewhere, from Ala-ud-din Khilji to Aurangzeb in the timeline, mosques were either destroyed or converted into artillery stores all across Rajputana, Malwa and Gujarat. This was a psychological response to temple destruction and demolishes the notion of foreign domination.
It is undeniable that after the initial splendid expansion by Turks, the Khalji and Tughlak territories went back into the hands of the native powers or broke away under rebellious governors. The turks just couldn't build an empire in India in more than three centuries !!
Quite a contrast from there performance in Anatolia; the Ottomans.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Articles

Top