The Syrian Crisis

The Last Stand

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During a War game with Athens in 2009 Israeli Sufi's successfully Breached Their S 300 radars
Good.

Then the Israeli Air Force is preparing for the S-300 and knows it's weaknesses. (more or less - then CIA knows too!)

Time for Russkies to push upgrades on S-300 radar for their own Army or purchase S-400 in large quantities.
 

SajeevJino

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Good.

Then the Israeli Air Force is preparing for the S-300 and knows it's weaknesses. (more or less - then CIA knows too!)

Time for Russkies to push upgrades on S-300 radar for their own Army or purchase S-400 in large quantities.
The Export version of S 300 pmu Is Sub Standard
 

SajeevJino

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Turkey finds sarin gas in homes of suspected Syrian Islamists – reports


Turkish security forces found a 2kg cylinder with sarin gas after searching the homes of Syrian militants from the Al-Qaeda linked Al-Nusra Front who were previously detained, Turkish media reports. The gas was reportedly going to be used in a bomb.





The sarin gas was found in the homes of suspected Syrian Islamists detained in the southern provinces of Adana and Mersia following a search by Turkish police on Wednesday, reports say. The gas was allegedly going to be used to carry out an attack in the southern Turkish city of Adana.

On Monday, Turkish special anti-terror forces arrested 12 suspected members of the Al-Nusra Front, the Al-Qaeda affiliated group which has been dubbed "the most aggressive and successful arm" of the Syrian rebels. The group was designated a terrorist organization by the United States in December.

Police also reportedly found a cache of weapons, documents and digital data which will be reviewed by police.

Following the searches, five of those detained were released following medical examinations at the Forensic Medicine Institution Adana. Seven suspects remain in custody. Turkish authorities are yet to comment on the arrests.

Russia reacted strongly to the incident, calling for a thorough investigation into the detention of Syrian militants
in possession of sarin gas.

"We are extremely concerned with media reports. Russia believes that the use of any chemical weapons is absolutely
inadmissible," Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said on Thursday.

In a separate incident in Adana, police reportedly received intelligence that an explosive-laden vehicle had entered the town of Adana on Thursday, the Taraf daily reports.


Turkey finds sarin gas in homes of suspected Syrian Islamists – reports — RT News
 

The Last Stand

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Turkey finds sarin gas in homes of suspected Syrian Islamists – reports
Sarin? :mad:

Holy crap that's bad. Can Russia stop S-300 delivery now? :tsk:

Chemical attacks are now almost confirmed. I expect that the US has a valid reason for invading Syria now. :megusta:

At least DFI's more tank oriented members like me would like that. (Superiority of M1 Abrams proved beyond doubt :D)
 

W.G.Ewald

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Well, however old the S-300 is, it will still be effective. Israeli EW weapons will have little effect on radiation protected hardened military-grade electronics.

Of course, Israel can scramble the radar signals. I expect Israel to take pro-active action as they have always done before.
@amoy @W.G.Ewald , would you honour me with long analyses? :)
Here is something on electronics of S-300P and S-300V:

S-300P series and S-300V systems represent anti-access capabilities - designed to make it unusually difficult if not impossible to project air power into defended airspace. The B-2A and F-22A were both developed with these threat systems in mind, and are still considered to be the only US systems capable of robustly defeating these weapons. The technique for defeating them is a combination of wideband all aspect stealth and highly sensitive radio-frequency ESM receivers, combined with offboard sources of near-realtime Intelligence Surveillance Reconaissance (ISR) data on system locations.

Aircraft with no stealth, reduced RCS capabilities, or limited aspect stealth, such as the F-15E, F-16C, F/A-18E/F, Eurofighter Typhoon and JSF are all presented with the reality that high to medium altitude penetration incurs a very highly risk of engagement by either of these weapon systems. It is perhaps ironic that the only reliable defence for aircraft lacking top tier all aspect stealth capability is high speed low altitude terrain masking using Terrain Following Radar, supplemented by offboard near-realtime ISR data, support jamming and standoff missiles. Australia's F-111s, if used cleverly, were arguably much more survivable against this class of technology than the vast majority of newer types in service - it should come as no surprise that the Bundes-Luftwaffe in Germany developed the terrain following Tornado ECR Wild Weasel precisely around this regime of attack on the SA-10/20/12...

the S-300P/S-300V series SAMs were designed for austere support environments, to be operated and maintained largely by Soviet era conscripts...

These highly capable systems are not invincible, but require significant investment into specialised capabilities to defeat them - prohibitive losses in aircraft and aircrew otherwise might occur. As they are less demanding to operate than modern combat aircraft, operators across the broader region will be able to achieve combat effective proficiency faster than with the Su-27/30. In practical terms the S-300P/S-300V SAMs are a viable deterrent against air forces without the technological and especially intellectual capital to tackle them - and in many respects better value for money than the Su-27/30.
Almaz S-300P/PT/PS/PMU/PMU1/PMU2 / Almaz-Antey S-400 Triumf / SA-10/20/21 Grumble / Gargoyle
 
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Razor

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Sarin? :mad:

Holy crap that's bad. Can Russia stop S-300 delivery now? :tsk:

Chemical attacks are now almost confirmed. I expect that the US has a valid reason for invading Syria now. :megusta:

At least DFI's more tank oriented members like me would like that. (Superiority of M1 Abrams proved beyond doubt :D)
If I'm not mistaken, that news report says the sarin gas was found in the homes of suspected Syrian Islamists (who are fondly called Syrian rebels), the same dudes who get US govt support and sympathies.
 

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NY Times reported this development 2 weeks old. It is fraught with serious implications for the conflict (& West):

Russia sends new batch of Yakhont anti-ship missiles to Syria

Russia has sent advanced anti ship cruise missiles to Syria, a move that illustrates the depth of its support for the Syrian government led by President Bashar al-Assad, American officials said Thursday.

Russia has previously provided a version of the missiles, called Yakhonts, to Syria. But those delivered recently are outfitted with an advanced radar that makes them more effective, according to American officials who are familiar with classified intelligence reports and would only discuss the shipment on the basis of anonymity.

Unlike Scud and other longer-range surface-to-surface missiles that the Assad government has used against opposition forces, the Yakhont anti ship missile system provides the Syrian military a formidable weapon to counter any effort by international forces to reinforce Syrian opposition fighters by imposing a naval embargo, establishing a no-fly zone or carrying out limited air strikes.

"It enables the regime to deter foreign forces looking to supply the opposition from the sea, or from undertaking a more active role if a no-fly zone or shipping embargo were to be declared at some point," said Nick Brown, editor in chief of IHS Jane's International Defense Review. "It's a real ship killer."

Jeffrey White, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a former senior American intelligence official, said Syria's strengthened arsenal would "tend to push Western or allied naval activity further off the coast" and was also "a signal of the Russian commitment to the Syrian government."

The disclosure of the delivery comes as Russia and the United States are planning to convene an international conference that is aimed at ending the brutal conflict in Syria, which has killed more than 70,000. That conference is expected to be held in early June and to include representatives of the Assad government and the Syrian opposition.

Secretary of State John Kerry has repeatedly said that it is the United States' hope to change Mr. Assad's "calculations" about his ability to hold on to power so that he will allow negotiations for a political solution to the conflict. Mr. Kerry indicated that he had raised the issue of Russian arms deliveries to Syria during his recent visit to Moscow, but declined to provide details.

"I think we've made it crystal clear we would prefer that Russia was not supplying assistance," he said. "That hasn't changed."

American officials have been concerned that the flow of Russian and Iranian arms to Syria will buttress Mr. Assad's apparent belief that he can prevail militarily.

"This weapons transfer is obviously disappointing and will set back efforts to promote the political transition that is in the best interests of the Syrian people and the region," Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, the senior Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, said in a statement on Thursday night. "There is now greater urgency for the U.S. to step up assistance to the moderate opposition forces who can lead Syria after Assad."

Senator Robert Menendez, Democrat of New Jersey and the committee chairman, added in a statement, "Russia is offering cover to a despotic ruler and defending a bankrupt regime."

Syria ordered the coastal defense version of the Yakhont system from Russia in 2007 and received the first batteries in early 2011, according to Jane's. The initial order covered 72 missiles, 36 launcher vehicles, and support equipment, and the systems have been displayed in the country.

The batteries are mobile, which makes them more difficult to attack. Each consists of missiles, a three-missile launcher and a command-and-control vehicle.

The missiles are about 22 feet long, carry either a high-explosive or armor-piercing warhead, and have a range of about 180 miles, according to Jane's.

They can be steered to a target's general location by longer-range radars, but each missile has its own radar to help evade a ship's defenses and home in as it approaches its target.

Two senior American officials said that the most recent shipment contained missiles with a more advanced guidance system than earlier shipments.

Russia has longstanding interests in Syria, including a naval base at the Mediterranean port of Tartus.

As the Syria crisis has escalated, Russia has gradually augmented its naval presence in the region. In January, more than two dozen Russian warships sailed to the Black and Mediterranean Seas to take part in what the Defense Ministry said was to be the country's largest naval exercise in decades, testing the ships' ability to deploy outside Russian waters.

A month later, after the Black Sea exercises ended, the Russian Defense Ministry news agency said that four large landing vessels were on their way to operations off the coast of Syria.

"Based on the results of the navy exercises in the Black and Mediterranean seas," the ministry said at the time, "the ministry leadership has taken a decision to continue combat duty by Russian warships in the Mediterranean."

Russia's diplomatic support of Syria has also bolstered the Assad government.

At the United Nations, the Russians recently blocked proposals that the Security Council mount a fact-finding trip to Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon to investigate the burgeoning flood of refugees, according to Western diplomats.

Jordan had sought the United Nations visit to make the point that the refugee situation was a threat to stability in the region, but Russia said that the trip was beyond the mandate of the Security Council, diplomats said.

When allegations that the Assad government had used chemical weapons surfaced, Russia also backed the Syrian government's refusal to allow the United Nations to carry out a wide-ranging investigation inside Syria — which Russia's foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, said was an attempt to "politicize the issue" and impose the "Iraqi scenario" on Syria.

Russian officials have repeatedly said that in selling arms to Syria, they are merely fulfilling old contracts. But some American officials worry that the deliveries are intended to limit the United States' options should it choose to intervene to help the rebels.

Russia, for example, previously shipped SA-17 surface-to-air missiles to Syria. Israel carried out an airstrike against trucks that were transporting the weapons near Damascus in January. Israel has not officially acknowledged the raid but has said it is prepared to intervene militarily to prevent any "game changing" weapons from being shipped to Hezbollah, the Lebanese militant group.

More recently, Israeli and American officials have urged Russia not to proceed with the sale of advanced S-300 air defense weapons. The Kremlin has yielded to American entreaties not to provide S-300s to Iran. But the denial of that sale, analysts say, has increased the pressure within Russia's military establishment to proceed with the delivery to Syria.
 

W.G.Ewald

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If I'm not mistaken, that news report says the sarin gas was found in the homes of suspected Syrian Islamists (who are fondly called Syrian rebels), the same dudes who get US govt support and sympathies.
From the article:

The sarin gas was found in the homes of suspected Syrian Islamists detained in the southern provinces of Adana and Mersia following a search by Turkish police on Wednesday, reports say. The gas was allegedly going to be used to carry out an attack in the southern Turkish city of Adana.

On Monday, Turkish special anti-terror forces arrested 12 suspected members of the Al-Nusra Front, the Al-Qaeda affiliated group which has been dubbed "the most aggressive and successful arm" of the Syrian rebels. The group was designated a terrorist organization by the United States in December.
Terrorist Designations of the al-Nusrah Front as an Alias for al-Qa'ida in Iraq

The Department of State has amended the Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) and Executive Order (E.O.) 13224 designations of al-Qa'ida in Iraq (AQI) to include the following new aliases: al-Nusrah Front, Jabhat al-Nusrah, Jabhet al-Nusra, The Victory Front, and Al-Nusrah Front for the People of the Levant. The Department of State previously designated AQI as an FTO under the Immigration and Nationality Act and as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist under E.O. 13224 on October 15, 2004. The consequences of adding al-Nusrah Front as a new alias for AQI include a prohibition against knowingly providing, or attempting or conspiring to provide, material support or resources to, or engaging in transactions with, al-Nusrah Front, and the freezing of all property and interests in property of the organization that are in the United States, or come within the United States or the control of U.S. persons.
 

Razor

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From the article:



The sarin gas was found in the homes of suspected Syrian Islamists detained in the southern provinces of Adana and Mersia following a search by Turkish police on Wednesday, reports say. The gas was allegedly going to be used to carry out an attack in the southern Turkish city of Adana.

On Monday, Turkish special anti-terror forces arrested 12 suspected members of the Al-Nusra Front, the Al-Qaeda affiliated group which has been dubbed "the most aggressive and successful arm" of the Syrian rebels. The group was designated a terrorist organization by the United States in December.
Well, good that these SOBs have been designated a terrorist organization. But as you can see they re a part of the Syrian rebels, the most aggressive and successful arm, mind you.
 

W.G.Ewald

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Well, good that these SOBs have been designated a terrorist organization. But as you can see they re a part of the Syrian rebels, the most aggressive and successful arm, mind you.
Obama hasn't been talking about that chemical weapons use "red line" lately, either.
 

t_co

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What the ----?

I thought we invaded Iraq because we were afraid Saddam Hussein would give terrorists chemical weapons.

Now a confirmed Al-Qaida affiliate has sarin gas and Obama says:

"hey Saudi Arabia, remember to keep an eye on these guys so we don't have to" and "hey Al-Nusrah, sarin gas is bad, but if you flip Russia and Iran the bird.... *wink wink nudge nudge*"

:facepalm:

US foreign policy keeps reminding me of John Nash from A Beautiful Mind. Sometimes, it's brilliant. And sometimes, it could be charitably described as naive... or more accurately described as schizophrenic.
 
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amoy

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@t_co Never think the US foreign policy is schizophrenic or naive. Instead quite consistent if measured by achieving two aims -

1) to cripple Iran-Hez-Syria Assad triad, and keep Israel safe

2) to subdue Russian clout in Mid East

Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
 
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amoy

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Syrian forces kill American, British citizen accused of fighting alongside rebels


Syrian state-run television reported Thursday that forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad killed three Westerners, including an American woman and a British citizen, who it claims were fighting with the rebels and were found with weapons.
Is this woman among the 3 "westerners" killed? >>> Michigan woman, 33, killed in Syria fight, family says | Fox News

Speelman's mother, Monica Mansfield Speelman, told the Detroit Free Press that her niece was a convert to Islam who married an Arab immigrant several years ago but later divorced him. The family was not happy about Mansfield's conversion to Islam, said Monica Speelman and Mansfield's grandmother, Carole Mansfield.

"She had a heart of gold, but she was weak-minded," Carole Mansfield told the newspaper. "I think she could have been brain washed."

Nicole Mansfield was raised as a Baptist and her father was a General Motors production worker, relatives said. She quit high school after becoming pregnant but later earned her GED, attended community college and worked in home health care for 10 years, they said.

She told people "that the best way of life was to be a Muslim," Carole Mansfield told the Detroit Free Press. "And that women should always cover their head."
Read more: Michigan woman, 33, killed in Syria fight, family says | Fox News


Lots of Indian posters cry foul of evangelism, but such converts to Muslim seem more of a concern. :shocked:
 

The Last Stand

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Lots of Indian posters cry foul of evangelism, but such converts to Muslim seem more of a concern. :shocked:
Islam, if you would.

It's definitely more of a concern. People sometimes do things like this to "blend in" and then get brainwashed. It's depressing.
 

amoy

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Islam, if you would.

It's definitely more of a concern. People sometimes do things like this to "blend in" and then get brainwashed. It's depressing.
off topic, but u see below pic is for LONDON :lol:
 

W.G.Ewald

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John Kerry says Russians should not give AD missiles to Assad but wants arms for insurgents :rolleyes:
 

The Last Stand

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John Kerry says Russians should not give AD missiles to Assad but wants arms for insurgents :rolleyes:
Headmaster said:
And John Kerry gets an A+ rank for hypocrisy!
What did you expect from him sir? When we see that rebels have sarin, why shouldn't Yakhont and S-300 be supplied to Assad. Well, John Kerry needs to know a life story every child (as far as I know) in Chennai is told.

The story said:
Mahatma Gandhi was sitting in the Sabarmati Ashram. A mother approached the Mahatma with her child and said "Gandhiji (ji is added to denote respect) please tell my child to stop eating sweets" to which he replied "I will advise him when you come after a month."

The mother returned after a month to be confronted with the same answer. This went on for a few months. Finally, Gandhiji called the child aside and told him "Child, if you do not stop eating sweets, you will ruin your teeth and your health." Hearing this, the child obeyed as he respected the Mahatma.

The mother was curious and asked him "Gandhiji, why did you ask me to come back after a month several times? Why couldn't you have advised him on the first day itself?" to which the Mahatma put his head down in shame and said "Till today, I had the habit of eating sweets without an end. If I myself couldn't stop the habit, how could I advise a child?"

The mother smiled and returned home with her child.
Moral of the story: See if you're correct before you start advising others. (i.e. Don't be a hypocrite)
 

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