Tejas Mk-2 – India’s New SuperFighter Is Now One Of Top 4 Light Combat Aircraft In The World Along With ‘Idol’ Saab Gripen

[Angel of War]

Do you know that if J 20 is so capable than why did China bought Su 35 to counter Rafale? Name a country who claims to develop 5th generation plane goes to shop 4th generation plane.

first time I am hearing such a thesis . Kindly elaborate sir

 

[Angel of War]

This is the last time I am telling you that it was carrying Lundberg lense is your wishfull thinking and nothing else.

How else do you explain an hybrid radar detecting a Geometrically angled , carefully designed aircraft designed to evade enemy air defences and that too at a distance of 250km ? Even regular jets with a decent RCS don't get detected at that range , but if a fighter jet is flying with a lunberg lens then it's pretty much possible friend.

 

[Super Flanker]

How else do you explain an hybrid radar detecting a Geometrically angled , carefully designed aircraft designed to evade enemy air defences and that too at a distance of 250km ? Even regular jets with a decent RCS don't get detected at that range , but if a fighter jet is flying with a lunberg lens then it's pretty much possible friend.

first time I am hearing such a thesis . Kindly elaborate sir

I was Googling through photos of J-20 on "OPEN SOURCE" and let me tell you, more than 95-98 percent of Every picture that I scrolled through of J-20 is distinctly showing the presence of a Radar reflector on the under-belly of J-20.

I will share few pictures of J-20.

Have you noticed one thing? In all these photos, you can clearly see the presence of a "RADAR REFLECTOR"! Also I had seen pics of J-20 present in it's hangars having a Radar reflector as well.

 

[India Super Power]

I was Googling through photos of J-20 on "OPEN SOURCE" and let me tell you, more than 95-98 percent of Every picture that I scrolled through of J-20 is distinctly showing the presence of a Radar reflector on the under-belly of J-20.

I will share few pictures of J-20.View attachment 156798View attachment 156799View attachment 156800View attachment 156801View attachment 156802View attachment 156803

Have you noticed one thing? In all these photos, you can clearly see the presence of a "RADAR REFLECTOR"! Also I had seen pics of J-20 present in it's hangars having a Radar reflector well.

Exactly bro
During non war times many stealth fighters use radar reflectors during flying
That doesn't mean j-20 is bad
J-20 is made by chinese who have mastered manufacturing along with quality especially nowadays
It's a fifth gen aircraft it's league ahead of su-30mki and atleast better stealth than rafales and also it has 5th gen avionics
Even after super sukhoi j-20 will be ahead in terms of performance surprise and majorly numbers

 

[Super Flanker]

Exactly bro
During non war times many stealth fighters use radar reflectors during flying
That doesn't mean j-20 is bad
J-20 is made by chinese who have mastered manufacturing along with quality especially nowadays
It's a fifth gen aircraft it's league ahead of su-30mki and atleast better stealth than rafales and also it has 5th gen avionics
Even after super sukhoi j-20 will be ahead in terms of performance surprise and majorly numbers

Chinese will do the best to mask the True RCS of the J-20. We don't know what is the true RCS of J-20, so we should stop underestimating it.

We should work on Anti-Stealth Technology and our own Indigenous 5th generation program AMCA, people can Claim anything about the J-20 by saying it is Junk or can be easily tracked by a hybrid PESA/AESA Radar from the 1990s at a distance of 400 kms etc away but that won't change the fact that the Chinese are way ahead of India in all ways. They have better Defence industry than us as well. Ours is no match to them.

China is very wise to equip J-20s with Radar reflectors even when they are in Chinese Airspace itself, because you never know if a civilian Aircraft is flying around and might leak J-20's RCS. (Was quoted by @no smoking too)

We should stop underestimating Chinese, we should always prepare for the worst which is in our best interest.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Damn, I did not notice such massive simping is going on for China and J-20 here.

 

[India Super Power]

Chinese will do the best to mask the True RCS of the J-20. We don't know what is the true RCS of J-20, so we should stop underestimating it.

We should work on Anti-Stealth Technology and our own Indigenous 5th generation program AMCA, people can Claim anything about the J-20 by saying it is Junk or can be easily tracked by a hybrid PESA/AESA Radar from the 1990s at a distance of 400 kms etc away but that won't change the fact that the Chinese are way ahead of India in all ways. They have better Defence industry than us as well. Ours is no match to them.

China is very wise to equip J-20s with Radar reflectors even when they are in Chinese Airspace itself, because you never know if a civilian Aircraft is flying around and might leak J-20's RCS. (Was quoted by @no smoking too)

We should stop underestimating Chinese, we should always prepare for the worst which is in our best interest.

Point is they are ahead of us in terms of avionics, manufacturing, strategy making, wrt fighter aircrafts
But my doubt is will we be able to make amca by the timeline given by Ada and hal
Bcoz it took so many years for a country like China to make a 5th gen aircraft although during that time also they had very good fighter jets building capability that too heavy and medium category
But for a country like us
Hmmmmmmm!
Further writing will lead to scolding

 

[Super Flanker]

Point is they are ahead of us in terms of avionics, manufacturing, strategy making, wrt fighter aircrafts
But my doubt is will we be able to make amca by the timeline given by Ada and hal
Bcoz it took so many years for a country like China to make a 5th gen aircraft although during that time also they had very good fighter jets building capability that too heavy and medium category
But for a country like us
Hmmmmmmm!
Further writing will lead to scolding

Yes agreed that they are ahead of us, but also keep in mind that the platforms that China has developed in terms of Aircrafts (especially fighter planes) are mostly licenced copies of Russian/Soviet Designs.

China Operates fighter planes like Chengdu J-7, Shenyang J-8, Chengdu J-10, Shenyang J-11, Shenyang J-16, Chengdu J-20, Su-27, Su-30MKK, Su-35S. From these, planes like J-7, J-11, J-16, J-10 are based on Russian/Soviet Designs as well.

For example let's take J-7, It is a license-built version of the Soviet MiG-21, and thus shares many similarities with the MiG-21.

Also take another example which is J-11, airframe of J-11 is based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27.

J-10's design is also supposively based on Israeli Lavi. So you will notice one thing which is that China's most jet designs are copied or licensed ones.

After many years of copying and also using their own expertise and knowledge, China made J-20, also Reportedly China had hacked into Blueprints of F-22/F-35 and used whatever info it could get to design and build J-20.

Coming to AMCA, I am confident that we will be able to start production of AMCA MK-1 By this decade. Right now, 2 programs : Tejas MK-2 and AMCA are very important for Indian airforce.

Don't worry, like I said, India is a Defensive force and a Defensive force has to commit less Assets as compared to an opposing force like China. We need to strengthen our air defense systems, radars etc. Don't worry

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Su 35 can't detect vlo aircraft like rafale,eft 300km away, if mki detected j20 @ 300km, then its rcs similar to su30mki/b52 etc.

Than only option left with me is to believe that Indian Airforce was lying.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

How can you assume that Tejas MK-1A will have a lower RCS than J-20? This is not possible because 1st of all ,J-20 was designed by China as a full fledged Stealth fighter whereas Tejas on the other hand was not designed as full fledged but does have some RCS reduction features in it (small size, Use of lot of Composites).

And by the way just because in size J-20 is bigger than Tejas MK-1A in size, that does not mean it will have lower RCS as compared to J-20, because by that Logic F-22 ,SU-57 has more RCS as they are larger.

View attachment 150625

I will end by saying : "Maybe this J-20 is not as good as portrayed by CCP but we cannot Underestimate this Jet!"

In an excercise withIndia- US airforce in 2005, US airforce was highly impressed eith Mig 21. What their officials said was that it was very hard to detect because of its small size though it is not designed to stealth. Tejas uses very high degree of composite, designed with stealth in mind, uses Y duct to conceal engine.This makes Tejas stealthier.

Do far as F22 is concern, a mamoth effort has gone into designing it. Lots of aerodynamic is compromised. To compensate that, Highly powerful engines are placed into it. Yet, it is not made stealth by design. To overcome that, a state of art RAM paint was developed. Paint is higly sophisticated but gets damage in few flight which requires a very thick layer of painting after few flight. China has none this. Moreover, it has canards. Canards never lets plane to be stealth. I take every Chinese claim with a pinch of salt.

China made a copy of BMW car znd claimed that they made it in a cost less than half of BMW. However, in crash test, it scored 0/5 in safety rating. This explains the gap between Chinese quality and claim.

 

[Angel of War]

Than only option left with me is to believe that Indian Airforce was lying.

IAF is not lying , but if a J20 was detected at 250km or 300km range then It is 100% possible that it was flying with lunberg lens.

 

[karn]

I'm hoping we get a similar SAR scan from OSInt for the J20 so all this RR can stop.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

A thread for and non existant fighter?

 

[Angel of War]

A thread for and non existant fighter?

Lol it's now a battleground

 

[Super Flanker]

In an excercise withIndia- US airforce in 2005, US airforce was highly impressed eith Mig 21. What their officials said was that it was very hard to detect because of its small size though it is not designed to stealth. Tejas uses very high degree of composite, designed with stealth in mind, uses Y duct to conceal engine.This makes Tejas stealthier.

US and Indian Airforce joint excercise in 2005? you must be referring to Cope India exercises. 1st of all MiG-21 is not a Stealth design, you and I both know this. It Definitely has a lower RCS though as compared to full fledged metal body jets like SU-30 MKI/JF-17/MiG-29 but that here is mostly due to its smaller size as compared to these larger body planes. None of these planes are designed with keeping stealth in mind, neither they use composites or RAM.

But you are taking the RCS of an aircraft based on just the overall size and with use of some composites. Just because Tejas has composites, has a smaller size than J-20, that doesn't mean that it will have smaller RCS than J-20. RCS of any plane is dependent on several factors.

If I go by your logic that "A Small size plane with some composites has lower RCS than a full fledged Stealth plane which has RAM, composites, Geometric Stealth" than I can definitely claim the following too, by your logic :

1. Tejas has lower RCS than F22
2. Tejas has lower RCS as compared to B-2
3. Tejas has less RCS as compared to F-35

And the list will go on and on...

Do far as F22 is concern, a mamoth effort has gone into designing it. Lots of aerodynamic is compromised. To compensate that, Highly powerful engines are placed into it.

F-22 may not be the most Manouverable plane in the world but it is definitely the most Manouverable plane in USAF Inventory.

This is because F-22 uses 2 Pratt and Whitney F-119 Engines and that too with thrust vectoring control Capability, it has TVC in 1 axis and it allows F-22 be more Manouverable and have a Higher turn rate as compared to non thrust vectoring engine Jets like F-15, F-35, F-16.

Yet, it is not made stealth by design. To overcome that, a state of art RAM paint was developed. Paint is higly sophisticated but gets damage in few flight which requires a very thick layer of painting after few flight. China has none this. Moreover, it has canards. Canards never lets plane to be stealth. I take every Chinese claim with a pinch of salt.

Le me after hearing this :-

F-22 is not Stealth by design? You are either crazy or you do not know anything about Aviation. 1st of all, do you know anything about a Stealth aircraft and how it makes it Self low observable?

Stealth aircraft are designed to avoid detection using a variety of technologies that reduce reflection/emission of radar, infrared, visible light, radio frequency spectrum, and audio, collectively known as stealth technology.

F-22 uses RAM, Composites, Stealthy engines, and most importantly"Geometric Stealth"!

In any stealth plane, more than 60% of the RCS reduction is achieved by Geometric Stealth.

READ THIS COPYPASTE (Very carefully read it and go through it)

“There are two major ways of making a military platform stealthier. One is geometric stealth and other is material stealth. In geometric stealth, the shape of the aircraft is designed at such angles so as to deflect away maximum radar waves thereby minimising its radar cross section. In material stealth, radar-absorbing materials are used in making the aircraft which will absorb the radio waves thus reducing the radar footprint.

(From this Geometric Stealth gives maximum percentage of RCS reduction)

So do you really think that F-22 has achieved all Stealth by only RAM and Composites? This is False.

How do you know that China does not have Advanced RAM? have you yourself gone there and checked for yourself what is the level of sophistication in Chinese RAM?

See you are talking things without bringing any proof, you claim that J-20 is a 3.5 gen plane and you also Claim that F-22 is not stealthy by design.

Canards Definitely means in a larger RCS but that doesn't mean that the moment you add Canards to a stealth plane than it will become non Stealth.

China made a copy of BMW car znd claimed that they made it in a cost less than half of BMW. However, in crash test, it scored 0/5 in safety rating. This explains the gap between Chinese quality and claim.

I have never heard of any such incident, and I doubt what you are saying here, unless you show me sources to back this claim of yours with regards that

"China made a copy of BMW car znd claimed that they made it in a cost less than half of BMW. However, in crash test, it scored 0/5 in safety rating"

Ciao....

 

[Super Flanker]

IAF is not lying , but if a J20 was detected at 250km or 300km range then It is 100% possible that it was flying with lunberg lens.

Claiming to detect and track a Stealth aircraft at ranges like 200-300 kms is not a new thing, IAF has Claimed in the past to detect J-20 and China has also Claimed to detect American F-22/F-35s.

Stealth aircrafts are not completely 100% invisible to radar, rather Stealth is Mostly about delaying Detection.

But if a Stealth aircraft gets close enough to a SAM site (Like 25-30 kms) it will definitely get detected and will most probably get shot down.

For example let's recall the incident of F-117 nighthawk which was shot down by a S-125 SAM on 27 March 1999, during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. Reportedly during that time, the Yugoslavian army unit had detected the F-117 at a distance of 23 kms. So I would definitely say that if India makes Indigenous radars Advanced enough with Anti-stealth Capabilities than we will definitely be able to detect a J-20 at close ranges.

Let's face the facts : IAF will never be able to match PLAAF in terms of numerical Superiority, but what we can do is invest our R&D more in making more better missiles, radars and also our own stealth fighters.

 

[MonaLazy]

Let's face the facts : IAF will never be able to match PLAAF in terms of numerical Superiority, but what we can do is invest our R&D more in making more better missiles, radars and also our own stealth fighters.

Here's another fun fact: IAF will never have the huge number of enemies PLAAF has to contend with. So rest assured, the numbers are on our side.

Also inclined to believe what @HariPrasad-1's being saying. If they detected a J-20 with a Luneburg lens then the IAF chief would not have made that claim. We must remember no more details of the incident were shared so we do not know how far out the J-20 was.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

This is because F-22 uses 2 Pratt and Whitney F-119 Engines and that too with thrust vectoring control Capability, it has TVC in 1 axis and it allows F-22 be more Manouverable and have a Higher turn rate as compared to non thrust vectoring engine Jets like F-15, F-35, F-16.

2 axis TVC not 1 axis.

 

[Super Flanker]

2 axis TVC not 1 axis.

I think so that F-22 has TVC in 1 axis meaning that the Nozzles can move in only 1 Direction. 2 Axis would mean that the nozzle would move in 2 Different direction.

 

[Super Flanker]

@HariPrasad-1 I checked up several sources on the internet with regards to F-22's thrust vectoring and yes you are correct, F-22 has TVC in 2 Axis which allows it to have Roll and Pitch control.