Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[akshay m]

Sukhoi's serviceability to improve by year-end: Manohar Parrikar

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The serviceability rate of multi-role fighter aircraft Sukhoi is likely to improve to 75 per cent by this year end from the current level of 56-57 per cent, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said today.

"We have been trying to improve the serviceability of Sukhois. It has improved by seven per cent in last 8-9 months to reach to 56-57 per cent," he said in Rajya Sabha, exuding hope that it would go up to 75 per cent by the year end.

A total of 35 incidents of engine failures in air or other engine-related problems have occured between January, 2013 and December last year.

To a question, Parrikar said the Russian Original Equipment Manufacturer had introduced a number of measures to contain and eliminate technical issues that have led to engine troubles in flight.

"OEM has offered nine modifications or technological improvements for implementation in the production of new aero engines and during overhaul of engines," he said

Parrikar said the Indian Air Force has also finalised long-term repair agreements with Russian OEMs to improve availability of aircraft for operational use. "25 new engines with modified technology have been procured from Russia," he said.

Replying to another question, Parrikar said two new ordnance factories at Nalanda in Bihar and Korwa in Uttar Pradesh were being set up and a total investment of Rs 1,216 crore has already been made on the two projects.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[SajeevJino]

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From Hyde MP.net

Inquiries by the Air Force have revealed that in as many as 33 instances, the engines failed because of impure fuel, in another 11 cases, the problem was caused by excessive vibration and in eight others, engine failures were reported because of low pressure in the lubricant tanks, the Defence Minister said.

Mr Parrikar said that the engines were scheduled to be overhauled after every 1000 hours of flying, but the defects started showing-up after only 500 hours of flying. The minister said that Russia-based NPO Saturn, manufacturers of Su-30 Al-31FP engines, offered to make "nine technological improvements" during overhauls, and added that after the modifications the engines were flying for upto 900 hours.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Budget allocation for Air-force, Source Broadsword ..

 

[SajeevJino]

Budget allocation for Air-force, Source Broadsword ..

Sir Those are all rough estimation only

 

[SajeevJino]

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Via Alert 5

India's Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in Parliament that between 2013 to 2014, the Su-30MKI suffered 35 engine failures, which is around 2.9 failures a month.

Parrikar explained that there were 69 instances of engine failure in the last four years. Thirty-three of them was because of fuel contamination, 11 were due to excessive vibration and eight was because of low pressure in the lubricant tanks.

 

[smestarz]

and peoples again barking for More Sukhoi's and Su 35 as an MMRCA Alternate

The logic is simple Instead of Rafale go for Tejas which is the ideal replacement of Mig-21 but if you want a capable MRCA in big numbers urgently then best go for Su-35 or Su-30 MKI which can /is being produced in India.

One thing you should understand from the report is that HAL, IAF are also in a way cause of delay along with some delay due to delay of ToT, but then did you read about the Saga of Scorpene?

With Su-30 MKI we already know where we stand, and we can improve it. but seems some jokers prefer a fresh saga.

 

[smestarz]

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Via Alert 5

An analysis of 69 incidents of technical troubles in the aircraft showed that in 33 cases, the reason was due to the chips in the oil and vibration in engine bearings. In 11 cases, low pressure of lubricating oil was the fault and other faults were identified in eight cases.

Parrikar says Sukhois have been plagued with engine trouble : India, News - India Today

Seems there are issues in the engine and that is well documented, just wonder about finding chips in oil, is that something deliberate?

 

[smestarz]

Su-30 fleet plagued by engine woes, poor serviceability

Parrikar said India had resolved the bearing problem by "arranging better lubrication (to prevent wear and tear), better fitment of bearings and better quality of oil."

"Out of total 69 cases in the last three years, 33 cases are due to finding of chips in the oil, 11 due to vibration in the engine (caused by bearing problem) and 8 cases because of low pressure of lubricating oil," Parrikar said in a detailed reply in the House. In all, engines coming in for overhaul will have nine modifications.

Five Su-30 fighters have crashed during the last five years, setting off alarm bells in the IAF and raising a question mark over the safety of India's frontline fighter.

The IAF operates close to 200 twin-engine Su-30s, with another 72 to be inducted. But only 110 fighter planes are fully serviceable. Parrikar said the serviceability currently stood at 56-57% but was likely to climb to 70% by the year-end.

"Serviceability has improved by 7% in last 8-9 months to reach to 56-57%," he said. The earliest Su-30s were inducted into the IAF in 2000.

"The number of mid-air engine failures is not shocking factoring in the flying hours the fleet has logged. But poor serviceability is a matter of concern. Ideally, it should be around 75% during peacetime," former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal PV Naik told HT.

 

[sgarg]

Good thing is that problems are getting resolved.

"chips" in oil is weird. I hope they get to the bottom of the problem.

 

[sgarg]

The broadsword table is likely IAF wishlist. The funniest is 123 NEW Tejas cost 20K while 125 Jaguar-upgrade cost 18K. Who will approve a Jaguar upgrade for 18K while NEW Tejas can be bought for the same price?
AMCA expenditure cannot be predicted. Only R&D part is predictable.

 

[SajeevJino]

The logic is simple Instead of Rafale go for Tejas which is the ideal replacement of Mig-21 but if you want a capable MRCA in big numbers urgently then best go for Su-35 or Su-30 MKI which can /is being produced in India.

One thing you should understand from the report is that HAL, IAF are also in a way cause of delay along with some delay due to delay of ToT, but then did you read about the Saga of Scorpene?

With Su-30 MKI we already know where we stand, and we can improve it. but seems some jokers prefer a fresh saga.

I need a fighter who would carry out Attacks in Enemy Territory

Home based air defence even accomplished by Long range Air defence Batteries

 

[SajeevJino]

Seems there are issues in the engine and that is well documented, just wonder about finding chips in oil, is that something deliberate?

check out the refineries, clean up the Oil storage's and oil Tankers

 

[Khagesh]

Big expensive time consuming solutions, checking out like refineries, Oil storages and oil Tankers would need to be followed only if similar problems are seen with other aircrafts also.

Could be maintenance SOP problem or something more serious. But even there, the earlier reports seem to indicate that IAF has been following the maintenance per the proper procedures they got from the Russians.

But what kind of 'chips' can get into oil? And mind you these chips then also have to end up inside the aircraft to cause a problem.

 

[sgarg]

I need a fighter who would carry out Attacks in Enemy Territory

Home based air defence even accomplished by Long range Air defence Batteries

Why not go for unmanned planes and cruise missiles for attack?

A cruise missile costs 1M-1.5M. It needs very little maintenance, typically sealed in containers. You can buy quite a few in the price of one Rafale.
With INGPS now almost deployed, and AWACS planes with local tech now available, the logical step is to ramp up cruise missiles.

If you need to attack tanks on the border, likely LCA will do a fine job, as good as any Rafale.

 

[sgarg]

Big expensive time consuming solutions, checking out like refineries, Oil storages and oil Tankers would need to be followed only if similar problems are seen with other aircrafts also.

Could be maintenance SOP problem or something more serious. But even there, the earlier reports seem to indicate that IAF has been following the maintenance per the proper procedures they got from the Russians.

But what kind of 'chips' can get into oil? And mind you these chips then also have to end up inside the aircraft to cause a problem.

Theoretically chips can be engine damage. However jet turbines don't disintegrate into chips in engine oil.

All we can hope is there is dispassionate inquiry into the causes. If IAF is having big problems in maintaining Su-30, then it is logical to involve the OEM (HAL) under an onsite maintenance contract.

 

[akshay m]

India Sources Su-30MKI Spares Directly From Israel And France

India is sourcing spares for Su-30MKI fighter aircraft directly from France and Israel as Russia is facing a shortage in spare parts supply, Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar said in Parliament on Tuesday.

The original equipment manufacturer (OEM) for Su-30MKI in Russia is facing shortage as well as problems in sourcing spare parts from Belarus and Ukraine.

"Some of the sources of Russians themselves are Western. A lot of them are from Israel, France, etc. So, these are being brought in directly with their approval, or in certain cases we are coordinating the efforts and getting the spares. The issue was relevant for all platforms from Russia," Parrikar said.

Parrikar further explained, "With concentrated efforts, we have been able to increase the serviceability of the Sukhois by about seven per cent over the last eight-nine months. We have improved the serviceability by seven per cent, almost from 49-50 to 56-57 per cent, we intend to get it 70 per cent by year end".http://http://-----------/threads/india-sources-su-30mki-spares-directly-from-israel-and-france.365306/

 

[smestarz]

I need a fighter who would carry out Attacks in Enemy Territory

Home based air defence even accomplished by Long range Air defence Batteries

A fighter that can carry out Attack and ensure air dominance SU-30 MKI and we have one to do that

Air defence batteries have one serious limitations, they are not that mobile. The air defence batteries are perfect when you have to protect some important targets, but then you cannot protect them all as between the two different batteries there will be BLACK ZONE, Also if one wants to put up batteries in all the important places, we might need more than 100 battalions of these.
For covering the important cities, industrial areas, ports, airports and other installations. But the advantage of an air interceptor is firstly its highly mobile platform and good co-ordination with Ground based radars (like Green pine etc) will give the missiles (on the plane platform) a range of 500 miles which is better than ground based systems which are not higly mobile

Ground based systems are cheaper, but the disadvantage is lack of mobility

 

[smestarz]

Theoretically chips can be engine damage. However jet turbines don't disintegrate into chips in engine oil.

All we can hope is there is dispassionate inquiry into the causes. If IAF is having big problems in maintaining Su-30, then it is logical to involve the OEM (HAL) under an onsite maintenance contract.

Are the planes fueled by fuel trucks? or some other way?

 

[smestarz]

Why not go for unmanned planes and cruise missiles for attack?

A cruise missile costs 1M-1.5M. It needs very little maintenance, typically sealed in containers. You can buy quite a few in the price of one Rafale.
With INGPS now almost deployed, and AWACS planes with local tech now available, the logical step is to ramp up cruise missiles.

If you need to attack tanks on the border, likely LCA will do a fine job, as good as any Rafale.

You wait till someone comes with weight class

 

[sgarg]

Are the planes fueled by fuel trucks? or some other way?

I believe fuel is checked before filling into an aircraft. The filling is through a high pressure pump. The transfer of fuel is from storage tank to truck, and then truck to the aircraft.

Fuel quality can be an issue if a. water seeps into fuel storage tanks; b. fuel is improper grade.

Lubricant is a totally different thing. Chips in oil (that is when oil is drained) can be found if there is engine damage. The engine will need an overhaul if engine damage is found. This looks quite serious. There can be multiple causes which only a thorough technical investigation can detect.