Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Kunal Biswas]

The stated problems regarding impure fuel is utter incorrect ..

 

[sgarg]

You said it, one of the most important problem in India is impure and lack of good quality fuel. Maybe the fuel and oil that our Indian companies provide is not as per the standards required.
Also it seems IAF speculates the cause of the accident, and there is no real analysis of the accident. Maybe this also in a way adds to the accidents of Mig-21

Fuel being a cause is possible only if contamination occurs in storage or transport. It is unlikely to come from factory. The fuel is checked before filling.

Excessive vibration can be caused by mechanical problems in the engine. Faulty bearing can be the reason, as is said in the news report. The solution will be redesign of the bearings as has been done.

HAL should conduct an audit of the engine to investigate if certains parts can be made better. Improvements in the engine can solve the problems.

 

[Abhi9]

Snoop on the prey

Vultures

 

[uoftotaku]

The technical report of the "impure fuel" states presence of metal particles in the lubricant and fuel streams. This is linked to the vibration issue as they suspect that some bearings would have cracked and the resulting metal pieces would enter the combustion chamber and cause all sorts of havoc. Nothing to do with the quality of the fuel (although they have switched to a different lubricant)

 

[indiandefencefan]

The technical report of the "impure fuel" states presence of metal particles in the lubricant and fuel streams. This is linked to the vibration issue as they suspect that some bearings would have cracked and the resulting metal pieces would enter the combustion chamber and cause all sorts of havoc. Nothing to do with the quality of the fuel (although they have switched to a different lubricant)

isnt the fuel checked before being filled into the aircraft ??? dont think the problem is anywhere near to being fuel related

 

[uoftotaku]

Yes, as stated the issue is nothing to do with the fuel itself. They have found that some of the components in the fuel line systems (maybe the pump bearings) are suffering excessive metal fatigue due to the abnormal vibrations from the engine. This cause the metal surface of these bearings to flake and the resulting pieces / particles of metal enter the fuel stream. Hence the fuel itself is pure when it goes in, but component failures caused the problems.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

"Impure fuel" is a nonsense, Design and fabricated by lobby to blind general mass from real issues ..

 

[tharun]

sukhoi airframe is constructed of titanium and high-strength aluminium alloys is this right?
We don't use composites materials?

 

[uoftotaku]

Russians ( for all their faults ) are world leaders in Titanium and Aluminium alloy metallurgy and utilization. They also have plentiful supply of the minerals required in country and have thus never felt the need to seriously develop the technology for manufacturing carbon fibre and plastic based composites ( where Japanese, American and French firms have a massive lead ). Use of composites also does not guarantee weight savings (see the debacle of the early 787 Dreamliners) as the material, while light, requires careful use of bracing and fasteners (which are inevitably made of titanium or aluminium) to ensure overall strength and integrity meets the requirements of high g flight experienced by combat aircraft. The Russians are now developing composite structure assembly tech to support efforts like the PAK-FA but the industry is way behind the curve and in serious difficulties as this is not something that can be mastered quickly. IIRC the SU-35 has significantly more composite material usage than the SU-30MKI but still not on par with say Rafale or even Tejas ( yes, despite appearances our humble Tejas makes considerable use of CFRP)

 

[tharun]

SU-30mki radar cross section will be higher and will be vunerable to SAM's and Air-Air missiles.
Maintainence will be needed to keep planes out of rust.am i right?
why dont HAL manufacture su-30 body with composites because they made Tejas(most of it is composite)?

 

[uoftotaku]

Maintenance is always required regardless of the materials used! There is no issue of rust however as both titanium and aluminium alloys have extremely high corrosion resistance (more than stainless steel in fact). Only certain steel alloys with high magnesium content are prone to corrosion in our high humidity conditions. Also being composite or stealth does not mean no or less maintenance. In fact the headache can increase many fold! The US has painful lessons in the F-117, B2 and even F-22 in maintenance of the exotic composite skins and structures needed to achieve radar stealth. There were reports that an F-22 spends 2 days in the hanger for every hour of flying as its fuselage has to be meticulously checked after every flight to ensure the stealth is not compromised. B2 is even worse! The maintenance headache means that out of 20 active aircraft only about 3-4 are Mission Capable at any given time. Hence why so many billions are being spent to develop even more exotic but easier to maintain composites for the F-35...which will still need a LOT more maintenance than legacy planes but just not as much as say the F-22.

Why doesn't HAL use composites in the SU-30MKI? Because HAL is only a Licensee and not the OEM thus does not have authorization to dictate any changes to the original design or specs without express knowledge or consent from Sukhoi. In this case, such permission will never come because the Russians have a vested interest to protect their industrial share in the JV manufacturing. As per the license agreement for SU-30MKI, until today ALL titanium components are still coming from Russia and even small parts have to be machined down from huge blocks of raw metal. The technical challenge of replacing structural components with different materials is not as simple and straightforward as it sounds since many different factors have to be considered and huge cost will be involved int he R&D. Now on one hand it will be immensely useful for our engineers to conduct such challenging R&D providing the funds and political will are there but again, the OEM has to consent also.

 

[grampiguy]

Maintenance is always required regardless of the materials used! There is no issue of rust however as both titanium and aluminium alloys have extremely high corrosion resistance (more than stainless steel in fact). Only certain steel alloys with high magnesium content are prone to corrosion in our high humidity conditions. Also being composite or stealth does not mean no or less maintenance...................Why doesn't HAL use composites in the SU-30MKI? Because HAL is only a Licensee and not the OEM thus does not have authorization to dictate any changes to the original design or specs without express knowledge or consent from Sukhoi. In this case, such permission will never come because the Russians have a vested interest to protect their industrial share in the JV manufacturing. As per the license agreement for SU-30MKI, until today ALL titanium components are still coming from Russia and even small parts have to be machined down from huge blocks of raw metal.

What is the story on Su-30MKI engine - AL-31? There are many accounts which say that Russians have done full TOT on engine manufacturing. There are some accounts which mention that even SCB and hot core still comes from Russia. Then recently, this guy was caught from HAL factory with stolen Titanium blades. One starts wondering what is the actual story on this ? Further, what happens when 272 aircraft order is delivered? Will HAL be able to make spare parts from local raw materials? or IAF will remain dependent on Russian spare parts and the consequent horror ??

 

[sgarg]

@grampiguy, the available information is India does have TOT of Al-31 engine. Whether some parts still come from Russia is a different issue, as it may have happened due to shortcomings at Indian factories.

 

[akshay m]

hahahaha
[tweet]587061166783868928[/tweet]

 

[bennedose]

Best of Su-30 MKI

 

[Hari Sud]

Is it possible that all these controversies about Su-30mk1 including the above discussed fuel problems are inspired by arms merchant trying to prove the Russian/ Soviet arms are inferior?

 

[sgarg]

What is the story on Su-30MKI engine - AL-31? There are many accounts which say that Russians have done full TOT on engine manufacturing. There are some accounts which mention that even SCB and hot core still comes from Russia. Then recently, this guy was caught from HAL factory with stolen Titanium blades. One starts wondering what is the actual story on this ? Further, what happens when 272 aircraft order is delivered? Will HAL be able to make spare parts from local raw materials? or IAF will remain dependent on Russian spare parts and the consequent horror ??

Su-30 TOT level is quite high. HAL is not exactly an icon of efficiency. Slippages and QC problems are persistent at HAL. Despite that HAL is churning out Su-30 according to target. This means that Su-30 facilities have been ramped up and production has been harmonized. The Su-30 inductions are the only good point in the lackluster story of IAF procurement.

 

[indiandefencefan]

Another su-30 crash today (19/5/2015) in Assam.

Seriously......... jets are crashing faster than HAL build them

 

[SajeevJino]

160 Sukhoi-30s Delivered by HAL: Chairman

Chairman of Hindustan Aeronautics, T Suvarna Raju in an interaction with media confirmed that around 160 Sukhoi-30’s have been delivered to Indian air force till March 2015 which have been build from Raw material stage.

Russia initially had supplied 50 Sukhoi’s out of which 18 aircrafts were Su-30MKs which were returned to Russia and were later replaced by modern Su-30MKIs.

HAL has promised 2019 deadline to deliver remaining jets to India air force and has increased Production capability and has been delivering 15 aircraft per year lately.

from http://idrw.org/160-sukhoi-30s-delivered-by-hal-chairman/

 

[SajeevJino]

.

so we have total of 210 Su 30 MKI's as of March 2015

160 Produced by HAL in India another 50 delivered from Russia early ( - Six Su 30 MKI )

So 160+50-6= 204 units ..!!