Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Longewala]

Here is a quote from our dear PM

“Today, the lack of Rafale is being felt,” Modi said. “The country is saying in one voice that had we had the Rafale [fighter jets] now, what all could have happened? Putting self-interest and politics before Rafale has seriously hurt the nation.”

This is after balakot and when we had MKI heavy force. For a PM to say that.. imagine how much brainwashing IAF must have done.

The pm was pointing out that the previous govt had failed to order the Rafales in almost a decade and further tried to detail the process.

What any IAF officer will tell you it's the mix of Rafales and Sukhois that would be a deadly combination
The problem isn't the Sukhois but rather we had only the Sukhois....whereas ideally ideally we need 60-80 Rafales interleaved with the heavier jets

 

[aerokan]

The pm was pointing out that the previous govt had failed to order the Rafales in almost a decade and further tried to detail the process.

What any IAF officer will tell you it's the mix of Rafales and Sukhois that would be a deadly combination
The problem isn't the Sukhois but rather we had only the Sukhois....whereas ideally ideally we need 60-80 Rafales interleaved with the heavier jets

So how did lack of Rafales hurt the nation in post balakot scenario? Is it mandatory to have Rafales? Even if we don't have the ideal Rafale-MKI mix, can't MKI's alone do the job? What's the need to degrade MKI's just to score some political points?

 

[vishnugupt]

Can we get one simple thing straight: Balakot was nothing about the Su-30 capabilities or lack of it.
It was simply a matter of height.
You take a small child, and place him on a 4th floor balcony while you are on the ground floor.
You each get ten stones to throw at each other.
Who manages the do the most damage?
Does that mean you are weaker than that child?

There were certainly weaknesses thrown up in terms if certain radio and electronic equipment, there is a reason India went out to buy more AAMs etc.
But that's just a democracy fixing it's problems better.

If anything the Napaks should be more worried considering they used up multiple Amraams with that height advantage and missed every one. But then the descendants of Ghazis cannot admit any weakness can they

Let me clear this If you misunderstood me, I have never ever said against Su-30mki since my birth on DFI, You can check it.
Whatever you have said above, has been said by me several time but some people on forum don't understand it. You can check this too.

It IAF who never encountered MKi criticism post-Balakot, In fact, they built their case on it to import Rafale and 114 Gripen ( Rafale aspect could be justified)
IAF reportedly said Mki 3.5 generation in the Supreme court of India,
Air marshal Raghunath Nambiar on record said HAL built 930 engines for Sukhoi30 which was wrong information.
Rest points you all hear on daily basis

 

[Longewala]

So how did lack of Rafales hurt the nation in post balakot scenario? Is it mandatory to have Rafales? Even if we don't have the ideal Rafale-MKI mix, can't MKI's alone do the job? What's the need to degrade MKI's just to score some political points?

But he didn't "degrade" MKIs did he, he just pointed out Rafales would have been useful.

And why is it mandatory to have Rafales? Well, they lack the Sukhois power, range and radar. But they are lower RCS, better EW suite, better at not being detected, meteor missile..


In Balakot 2.0 while the Napak would still be focused on the high RCS Sukhois and firing their amraam salvoes at max range again, the Sukhois would be tracking them from longer range with their radars while the Rafales creep up silently and shoot them in the face with meteors.

 

[vishnugupt]

So how did lack of Rafales hurt the nation in post balakot scenario? Is it mandatory to have Rafales? Even if we don't have the ideal Rafale-MKI mix, can't MKI's alone do the job? What's the need to degrade MKI's just to score some political points?

One thing could have many aspects so the political aspect is justified because BJP was in fear that the Rafale deal might go Bofors way and will damage its reputation for years. While on military aspect IAF should have more cautious in its statements when they Compared Su-30mki with Rafale. IAF literally built their case on the expanse of Su-30mki reputation and discredit it at such a level where Su-30mki will hardily recover in future.

 

[aerokan]

But he didn't "degrade" MKIs did he, he just pointed out Rafales would have been useful.

And why is it mandatory to have Rafales? Well, they lack the Sukhois power, range and radar. But they are lower RCS, better EW suite, better at not being detected, meteor missile..


In Balakot 2.0 while the Napak would still be focused on the high RCS Sukhois and firing their amraam salvoes at max range again, the Sukhois would be tracking them from longer range with their radars while the Rafales creep up silently and shoot them in the face with meteors.

I didn't ask the merits of Rafale bro.. I am aware of it. Once again.. why is rafale mandatory (not just good to have) to respond to pak fighters when you can do with MKI? MKI's would have done the job even without Rafale's. Rafale's are neither invincible nor completely invisible so that they can sneak up and shoot them in the face. Having Rafale's is good but saying that not having Rafale's as an excuse implies our MKI's are not worth it.

Also.. FYI, if you have Meteors equipped.. you don't go near and use them to shoot them in the face and get caught. You fire them from a distance.. a loooong one if you ask me.

 

[aerokan]

One thing could have many aspects so the political aspect is justified because BJP was in fear that the Rafale deal might go Bofors way and will damage its reputation for years. While on military aspect IAF should have more cautious in its statements when they Compared Su-30mki with Rafale. IAF literally built their case on the expanse of Su-30mki reputation and discredit it at such a level where Su-30mki will hardily recover in future.

That's what burns me bro.. IAF/PM doesn't have to discredit MKI directly/indirectly to justify buying Rafale. Why is BJP obsessed to justify to congress? Everybody in the country knows RG is BJP's star performer. So there is absolutely no need to do all these political gimmicks. In RG we trust, to save BJP from any political disaster.

 

[shade]

I didn't ask the merits of Rafale bro.. I am aware of it. Once again.. why is rafale mandatory (not just good to have) to respond to pak fighters when you can do with MKI? MKI's would have done the job even without Rafale's. Rafale's are neither invincible nor completely invisible so that they can sneak up and shoot them in the face. Having Rafale's is good but saying that not having Rafale's as an excuse implies our MKI's are not worth it.

Also.. FYI, if you have Meteors equipped.. you don't go near and use them to shoot them in the face and get caught. You fire them from a distance.. a loooong one if you ask me.

For political reasons.
Rafale is now an issue of E G O, since piddi the mongrel started barking about cHoWkiDar cHoR HaI, AmBaNi MoDi cOrpOrAte CrOny etc etc, so every little proclamation regarding Rafale is aimed at cong, why did they delay procuring the Rafale as a part of the OG MMRCA deal, why are they making a noise over modi buying 36 Rafales, etc etc.

If you notice every event regarding Rafale also, like Kadi Ninda doing the inauguration puja of the jets, and the recent event where Rafales were inducted, all are unnecessarily heavily publicized events, because these are intended as a bicep flex on the cong party and their piddi dogs in the media and other places.

It is a jibe aimed at the previous cong sarkar and Raul the mutt instead of MKI.
You could say Su-30MKI was "collateral" damage in the PR wars of BJP and Cong.

It's not about the capabilities of the MKI at all, the PM himself may not know much since he isn't some sort of fighter jet enthusiast neither he is some DRDO/IAF engineer to know everything in detail.
But the point has to be driven in the minds of the people that Rafale was a necessary expense, contrary to whatever hogwash pappoo was peddling.

 

[vishnugupt]

That's what burns me bro.. IAF/PM doesn't have to discredit MKI directly/indirectly to justify buying Rafale. Why is BJP obsessed to justify to congress? Everybody in the country knows RG is BJP's star performer. So there is absolutely no need to do all these political gimmicks. In RG we trust, to save BJP from any political disaster.

I understand your point but things don't work in this way. RG, no doubt is an idiot but nonetheless, he was Party president of Congrees. Before SC gave clean chit in the Rafale deal, people actually had started buying RG view so it was necessary politically otherwise it will end up in disaster for all. Moreover, PM never named Su-30mki but IAF did.
Generally, political statements have no values ( until it said in Parliament or become a Law ) but an institute ( IAF) statements have value and meaning and they named Su-30mki openly

 

[shade]

I understand your point but things don't work in this way. RG, no doubt is an idiot but nonetheless, he was Party president of Congrees. Before SC gave clean chit in the Rafale deal, people actually had started buying RG view so it was necessary politically otherwise it will end up in disaster for all. Moreover, PM never named Su-30mki but IAF did.
Generally, political statements have no values ( until it said in Parliament or become a Law ) but an institute ( IAF) statements have value and meaning and they named Su-30mki openly

IAF brass looking to score more kickbacks, blonde randis, properties in western countries etc from further Rafale purchases, which is why suddenly Su-30MKI is Mig21 tier old and obsolete, as per usual.

Till very recently last year when Modi sarkar made it clear that they will have to accept Tejas, crying against tejas was also continuing, in hopes of securing more benefits from imported aircraft deals.
Now thankfully that door is shut.

 

[aerokan]

I understand your point but things don't work in this way. RG, no doubt is an idiot but nonetheless, he was Party president of Congrees. Before SC gave clean chit in the Rafale deal, people actually had started buying RG view so it was necessary politically otherwise it will end up in disaster for all. Moreover, PM never named Su-30mki but IAF did.
Generally, political statements have no values ( until it said in Parliament or become a Law ) but an institute ( IAF) statements have value and meaning and they named Su-30mki openly

There is a saying that goes like this "they are not the ones to ask you to get out.. they will simply smoke the house". Modi doesn't have to name MKI. If he says or implies in any way that things would have turned out differently if Rafale would have been there..right immediately after Balakot ops while defending the Indian skies.. that only means that our main fighter MKI is not sufficient enough in this context. These types of blunders just to politically save his ass are getting more frequent these days (remember goof ups like China never entered indian side of the border in galwan context etc..). Country should come first.. not party. I will leave this topic here.

 

[mist_consecutive]

IAF has been vilifying SU30mki a thousand times more since 2015 than Pakistan, China, and SM combined. Moreover, Nobody believes/care what Pakistan, china says.
IAF openly said Mki 3rd generation, poor unreliable engine, Faulty FBW system, old generation Radar, vulnerable for BVR fire due to high RCS, Outdated Russian technology, Outdated avionics, could have done much better if IAF had Rafale during Balakot.

Can you provide some sources of your claim? MKI is 3rd gen, faulty FBW, old generation radar, Outdated avionics...etc etc?

The only thing correct in your post is an unreliable engine because AL-31F are very vulnerable to FOD damage & has faced fuel leakage issues.

Let me clear this If you misunderstood me, I have never ever said against Su-30mki since my birth on DFI, You can check it.
Whatever you have said above, has been said by me several time but some people on forum don't understand it. You can check this too.

It IAF who never encountered MKi criticism post-Balakot, In fact, they built their case on it to import Rafale and 114 Gripen ( Rafale aspect could be justified)
IAF reportedly said Mki 3.5 generation in the Supreme court of India,
Air marshal Raghunath Nambiar on record said HAL built 930 engines for Sukhoi30 which was wrong information.
Rest points you all hear on daily basis

Ah, when the US air force calls Su-30MKI better than their F-15s and F-16s. Source for the bold, please?

 

[vishnugupt]

There is a saying that goes like this "they are not the ones to ask you to get out.. they will simply smoke the house". Modi doesn't have to name MKI. If he says or implies in any way that things would have turned out differently if Rafale would have been there..right immediately after Balakot ops while defending the Indian skies.. that only means that our main fighter MKI is not sufficient enough in this context. These types of blunders just to politically save his ass are getting more frequent these days (remember goof ups like China never entered indian side of the border in galwan context etc..). Country should come first.. not party. I will leave this topic here.

Modi meant to say Congress failed to seal Rafale deal in 2012 and left Airforce ill-equipped ( low squadrons ) and this inadequately equipped IAF costed us dearly during Balakot. the statement was more on IAF capability not on Su-30mki or any particular jet which was correct.

 

[aerokan]

Modi meant to say Congress failed to seal Rafale deal in 2012 and left Airforce ill-equipped ( low squadrons ) and this inadequately equipped IAF costed us dearly during Balakot. the statement was more on IAF capability not on Su-30mki or any particular jet which was correct.

IAF ill-equipped (low squadrons) against PAF...!!! That's the end of line for me.

 

[Tumba]

Here is a quote from our dear PM

“Today, the lack of Rafale is being felt,” Modi said. “The country is saying in one voice that had we had the Rafale [fighter jets] now, what all could have happened? Putting self-interest and politics before Rafale has seriously hurt the nation.”

This is after balakot and when we had MKI heavy force. For a PM to say that.. imagine how much brainwashing IAF must have done.

I asked where IAF criticising MKI, and this statement from PM is purely political to score one up against UPA for not ordering Rafale in thr years nothing related to MKI.

Thing is thr is none ... MkI fcks pork F16 with ease... and Rafale is well above thr aukad..

 

[Tumba]

IAF ill-equipped (low squadrons) against PAF...!!! That's the end of line for me.

pork alert ... pork alert .... pork alert... doesnt matter if u r domestic lower quality pork

 

[vishnugupt]

IAF ill-equipped (low squadrons) against PAF...!!! That's the end of line for me.

Btw where I mentioned ill-prepared against PAF?? isn't it true IAF is outstretched due to low squadrons ?? Why are you making your own conclusion for your own comfort??

pork alert ... pork alert .... pork alert... doesnt matter if u r domestic lower quality pork

If you want to jump, jump as much as you want but for the matter of the fact, the 27-Feb-2019 day was "merely a save day, not a winner day" for IAF from any account ( In fact it was a bad day). On this very day IAF, MOD, everyone realized how ill-prepared we are against a piddy PAF. Since this day CDS Bipin Rawat keep on telling on every next day "We need indigenous weapons to win the next war"

 

[mist_consecutive]

Can you provide some sources of your claim? MKI is 3rd gen, faulty FBW, old generation radar, Outdated avionics...etc etc?

The only thing correct in your post is an unreliable engine because AL-31F are very vulnerable to FOD damage & has faced fuel leakage issues.



Ah, when the US air force calls Su-30MKI better than their F-15s and F-16s. Source for the bold, please?

@vishnugupt I am still waiting for your reply to this.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Btw where I mentioned ill-prepared against PAF?? isn't it true IAF is outstretched due to low squadrons ?? Why are you making your own conclusion for your own comfort??

If you want to jump, jump as much as you want but for the matter of the fact, the 27-Feb-2019 day was "merely a save day, not a winner day" for IAF from any account ( In fact it was a bad day). On this very day IAF, MOD, everyone realized how ill-prepared we are against a piddy PAF. Since this day CDS Bipin Rawat keep on telling on every next day "We need indigenous weapons to win the next war"

.

"merely a save day, not a winner day"

Yes, because the winner day was the day before. We were defending, and we defended with equal blows. That counts as a win, no?

On this very day IAF, MOD, everyone realized how ill-prepared we are against a piddy PAF. Since this day CDS Bipin Rawat keep on telling on every next day "We need indigenous weapons to win the next war

Did we realize our shortcomings? Yes.
Were we ill-prepared? Absolutely not. We could have decimated the whole PAF within few days if we mounted a counter-attack upon them, but our peace-loving nature won't allow! (who will win the election if we declare war, no?)

We need indigenous weapons to win the war, that is a universal truth. We know it, everyone knows it, the HAL & OFB's fat babus who take 3 hours lunch break & 2 hours tea break every day just to sit on their asses and fart knows it.

 

[Mikel]

When someone criticizes IAF for Balakot based on Feb 27 without mentioning Feb 26 shows they might have taken Paki churan a little too much.