Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Armand2REP]

Then answer one question of mine.. Are you fine if saudi Arabia in the future buys the bulk of its weapons from Russia? and becomes more of a Russian client ..?

If they aren't buying French I couldn't care less about what they buy. Russian products have more French kit in it than American.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

The US tried to bomb Vietnam off the map. And they failed.

No, US only wanted to change & control regime what they couldn't. They could easily wipe Vietnam out of map it they wanted to.

Controlling people than killing people, is more difficult & useful. This also applies why India isn't a hard power or aggressive country.

I understand they don’t teach Arab-Israeli conflicts in Indian history class. Thanks for confirmation.

Not at school but at college. However, Indians rarely bother about Arab Israeli conflict.
On topic, you gave example of Syria trying to finish Israel is same as that of North Korea trying to finish Japan or USA. Just try to give example of a more capable country.

 

[Armand2REP]

I was just watching Srijan and he says MKI does not have tropicalised engines limiting combat radius to 500km and that the Elta jammers are not integrated into the radar source code and classifies its own radar as a threat. Is this true?

 

[uoftotaku]

I was just watching Srijan and he says MKI does not have tropicalised engines limiting combat radius to 500km and that the Elta jammers are not integrated into the radar source code and classifies its own radar as a threat. Is this true?

How does one "tropicalise" a jet engine? And why would it affect the radius?

Jammer part is not true. Elta pods are meant as a plug and play solution so they have a good and easy integration process

 

[Armand2REP]

How does one "tropicalise" a jet engine? And why would it affect the radius?

Jammer part is not true. Elta pods are meant as a plug and play solution so they have a good and easy integration process

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra says that the cold and dry air of Russia allows it to achieve the rated range but the hot and humid climate of India greatly limits the performance.

He says that the Elta jammer is not integrated into the other systems like the radar and Tarang and that it interferes with the operation of both as it classifies them as hostile.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra says that the cold and dry air of Russia allows it to achieve the rated range but the hot and humid climate of India greatly limits the performance.

He says that the Elta jammer is not integrated into the other systems like the radar and Tarang and that it interferes with the operation of both as it classifies them as hostile.

Well yes the the thrust goes down and limit the capability compared to stated for russian condition. The difference is 10% around not very drastic


It happens with European stuff too.


Elta jammer had some issues but it doesn't jam own radar but friendly ones did faced difficulties issue was raised long back and I think it is resolved now.

 

[Wisemarko]

SU-30 MKI was a good platform 10 years ago but now it needs major updates. ELL 8222 is great but now shows age. New wide band (WB) upgrade is available and should be pursued. Engines are powerful but unreliable. There is no easy way to fix them. Radar and weapon controls system are outdated. Cockpit is showing age as well. Since MKI has hodgepodge of systems from different countries, many of them have compatibility problems.

On positive note, all these challenges are well known to IAF and there is time for remedial actions. New AESA (FGA-50?) and better A2A missiles are the most pressing needs. Russians are playing catch up in airborne AESA and looks like IAF is waiting for Russian technology to mature.

Hopefully, the Russians will not ask for exorbitant prices like the French did for mediocre Mirage upgrade package.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/1..._Sukhoi_Jets_At_Chinese_Air_show#.XY2QYRZlDDs

 

[Armand2REP]

Well yes the the thrust goes down and limit the capability compared to stated for russian condition. The difference is 10% around not very drastic


It happens with European stuff too.


Elta jammer had some issues but it doesn't jam own radar but friendly ones did faced difficulties issue was raised long back and I think it is resolved now.

I can't embed it but watch from 07:25...

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I can't embed it but watch from 07:25...

He is anti Russia.
In india he is running propaganda against Russia.

When IAF bought that jet it was one of the best.

Our su-30mki was the most well equipped su - 30. It is outclassed by small margin by su-35. Most of the Israeli and French systems work together pretty good and connecting them together is done by "indian mission control"

It's tailor made version for india.
Iaf is not dumb to spend millions extra if stock Russian one was better

It's true that certain things changes i watched in rajya sabha tv that indian spec rafale ecu is tuned for indian weather mainly for leh region.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I can't embed it but watch from 07:25...

IAF believes combo of su-30 and rafale will make sure we dominate the area.

 

[Armand2REP]

He is anti Russia.
In india he is running propaganda against Russia.

When IAF bought that jet it was one of the best.

Our su-30mki was the most well equipped su - 30. It is outclassed by small margin by su-35. Most of the Israeli and French systems work together pretty good and connecting them together is done by "indian mission control"

It's tailor made version for india.
Iaf is not dumb to spend millions extra if stock Russian one was better

It's true that certain things changes i watched in rajya sabha tv that indian spec rafale ecu is tuned for indian weather mainly for leh region.

He does mention that Russia never fully transitioned into the digital age to the point that their electronics are solely obsolete which facilitated India's desire to marry Western systems to try to bring them into the digital age. However the integration of those systems never happened and the plug/play and data fusion never materialised. Nothing talks to each other and the pilots are not given the relevant information to make use of it. The pilots are in the dark in an age where information is they key to success.

Of course the Rafale is tropicalised for India, it was designed to operate from carriers, Africa, Pacific and IOR territories. Russian fighters were not designed for such climates but if you need sub-zero that is the place to go.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

He does mention that Russia never fully transitioned into the digital age to the point that their electronics are solely obsolete which facilitated India's desire to marry Western systems to try to bring them into the digital age. However the integration of those systems never happened and the plug/play and data fusion never materialised. Nothing talks to each other and the pilots are not given the relevant information to make use of it. The pilots are in the dark in an age where information is they key to success.

Of course the Rafale is tropicalised for India, it was designed to operate from carriers, Africa, Pacific and IOR territories. Russian fighters were not designed for such climates but if you need sub-zero that is the place to go.

As i said that guy is just talking shit i watched his few videos. Rajya sabha tv which i gave you is the one which is government channel + IAF officials.

I have read many IAF pilots interviews. They complain more about air conditioning cooling is pathetic but heating is world class.

IAF is biggest user of su-series jets in some ways we were also involved in su-30 design and have finalized that jet when she was on papers so indian conditions were kept in mind. And su-30 pesa radar is much better than what our adversaries have she also spotted j-20.and elta pods recently worked pretty welll against Pakistan.

And if that jet was so bad non of the things were not working correctly then we wouldn't have ordered more 30 jets.

Connecting brahmos with jet gives her tremendous capabilities. Su-30 mki can do air attacks + ground attacks if she is armed with both of the weapons.
Su-30 can out run and out maneuver any Pakistani jet.
For Pakistan our even our mirage 2000 can out power there F-16.

The Su-30 MKI has perhaps as many players as the Typhoon! The Russians provide most of the hardware; Indian , French, Israeli industries provide software, avionics and weapons! The Russians won’t give their knowhow to Israelis and the French won’t give it to Russians. So it’s is a great achievement to get these components talking to each other! The Heart of the avionics system that communicates with all these various systems is Indian. ( iaf pilot said in a interview.)

On this su-30 mki episode Expert clearly says range of su-30mki is 2k km with in flight fuel refill it increase to 8k. Hehehehe 500km range that Abhijit iyer is a dumb man range is extremely important even tejas have 500km combat radius which is a light weight aircraft.

 

[Flying Dagger]

I can't embed it but watch from 07:25...

He is telling about the issues faced in early sukhois and resolved . Even now An upgrade for engine and radar is planned already apart from weapon and avionics. Problem is we have been producing almost same block of sukhoi mki for last 20 years while russia has been upgrading in batches Su 35 is the result they got we will catch up with super sukhoi upgrade.

He is pados waali aunty who picks up one thing put mirchi masala and spread rumors that's it. Let's not listen to him unless you want to be brainwashed.

 

[Flying Dagger]

My friend have been flying sukhoi for last 8-9 years and no such issue as he said . We all know the shortcomings of russian engines but Sukhoi already have a very powerful engine and Al 41f will take care of the increase thrust requirements with better fuel efficiency .

Now on Rafale saga

We were offered Mirage 2000 production line in 1978 when French asked us to go for Mirage instead of Anglo french Jaguar.

But IAF loved Jaguar for its twin engine simple design and safety that deal was sort of pushed down from top too . Then F 16 were offered to PAF by USA and we went shopping for Mirage a contract to buy 40 and building 110 was discussed Eventually we bought 49 only as USSR pushed Mig 29 . But their shortcomings like repair maintenance very short range engine issues meant no bulk order. They were sorted out later with UPG upgrade but for IN true the fighter jet wasn't tropicalized and they are facing severe maintenance and availability issue.

Then after disintegration of USSR Sukhoi 27 entered the circus initially due to political reason but IAF got involved in and we brought a game changer out of it. Su 30 mki.

After kargil war 10 more Mirage 2000 were bought. NDA leadership was hopeful that LCA Tejas will take care of the role of mirage 2000 which got delayed on and on. A proposal to buy 126 Mirage 2000 -5 was shot down and MRCA was introduced. France offered to move Mirage line in 2004 end till 2006 but got no response.

Rafale was introduced And we got Uncle Sam in the picture and it became MMRCA considering change in threat perception and environment by IAF.

But IAF wanted the French we wanted to decrease dependency on Russia after they play around with us from upgrading T 72 tanks aircraft carrier deal cost escalation repair issue and TOT problems with sukhoi.

Rest is history .

Tejas is still trying to come out of its egg and we are waiting for Rafale to arrive in India.

 

[Armand2REP]

He is telling about the issues faced in early sukhois and resolved . Even now An upgrade for engine and radar is planned already apart from weapon and avionics. Problem is we have been producing almost same block of sukhoi mki for last 20 years while russia has been upgrading in batches Su 35 is the result they got we will catch up with super sukhoi upgrade.

He is pados waali aunty who picks up one thing put mirchi masala and spread rumors that's it. Let's not listen to him unless you want to be brainwashed.

He isn't talking past tense. What is taking so long with the upgrade? It should have happened 10 years ago.

 

[Flying Dagger]

He isn't talking past tense. What is taking so long with the upgrade? It should have happened 10 years ago.

Because his info is stuck in past tense which he is trying to portray as present .

Why the delay ?

Cost and Aesa Radar . These are the main issue to be resolved .

 

[Assassin 2.0]

He is telling about the issues faced in early sukhois and resolved . Even now An upgrade for engine and radar is planned already apart from weapon and avionics. Problem is we have been producing almost same block of sukhoi mki for last 20 years while russia has been upgrading in batches Su 35 is the result they got we will catch up with super sukhoi upgrade.

He is pados waali aunty who picks up one thing put mirchi masala and spread rumors that's it. Let's not listen to him unless you want to be brainwashed.

@Armand2REP
According to reports, India is pushing for the development of a new AL-31FP engine with a higher thrust so that Transfer of Technology (TOT) license agreement between India and Russia remains valid while Russians have been pushing India to simply procure AL-41F engines which will require separate TOT licensing agreements which will cost India more money even though AL-41F engines were basically developed from AL-31FP engines. India also wants to upgrade Su-30MKI with more advance French and Israeli systems replacing current systems supplied by this country and not rely on Russian systems which have been offered on Su-30SM upgrade package. India is also keen to include more Non-Russians weapons systems including a combination of Indian and western platforms like Astra BVRAAM, SAAW, NGRAM and Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) and Brimstone air-launched ground attack missile.

If we buy new engine every now and then? What will happen to our contract in which we were allowed to overhaul and manufactured certain numbers of engine. If we disown that contract Russians will ask more for new engine tot.

If we are willing to pay for that then we will go for izdeliey - 30. Which is 15% better than su-35 engine which is still in development.

 

[Flying Dagger]

@Armand2REP
According to reports, India is pushing for the development of a new AL-31FP engine with a higher thrust so that Transfer of Technology (TOT) license agreement between India and Russia remains valid while Russians have been pushing India to simply procure AL-41F engines which will require separate TOT licensing agreements which will cost India more money even though AL-41F engines were basically developed from AL-31FP engines. India also wants to upgrade Su-30MKI with more advance French and Israeli systems replacing current systems supplied by this country and not rely on Russian systems which have been offered on Su-30SM upgrade package. India is also keen to include more Non-Russians weapons systems including a combination of Indian and western platforms like Astra BVRAAM, SAAW, NGRAM and Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) and Brimstone air-launched ground attack missile.

If we buy new engine every now and then? What will happen to our contract in which we were allowed to overhaul and manufactured certain numbers of engine. If we disown that contract Russians will ask more for new engine tot.

If we are willing to pay for that then we will go for izdeliey - 30

Indian weapon system will be integrated Astra already tested . Meteor and other European missile will not be integrated as nor Europe will allow that nor Russia. MBDA shot down proposal to integrate Meteor with Elta radar . After insistence of IAF and knowing the mass order they will get they have agreed to integrate with a fully indian radar in future.

Al 31 and IZ 30 have similar size length and dia ? That engine is a decade away from being operational anyway.

 

[WARREN SS]

This beast To need a Look At as Far Cost goes It's LCC Is Lower than Rafale F3R

 

[Hari Sud]

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra says that the cold and dry air of Russia allows it to achieve the rated range but the hot and humid climate of India greatly limits the performance.

He says that the Elta jammer is not integrated into the other systems like the radar and Tarang and that it interferes with the operation of both as it classifies them as hostile.

Su-30Mk1 has been tried and tested in India and US against all American fighter like F-15, F-16 and also F-18 in various exercises starting from 2004. F-16 capability against F-16 was tested later with exercises with other F-16 users in Asia also. The Su-30MK1 always came ahead. Hence I very much doubt the issues raised by hugely unpopular antigovernment journalist Mitra, who has spent time in Orissa jail.

Yes, in hot and humid air, it does affect performance, but that is true for all fighters including American fighters.

As regards to Elta Jammar, the author has been mislead on old and very old information dating back to 2002.