Sukhoi PAK FA

[asianobserve]

I see a very serious design error in that picture.

The centerline weapons bay doors, especially the forward doors, will definitely have severe limitations on opening angles since on both sides these doors are boxed-in by the intakes and engines.

What that means is that fewer weapons can be accommodated inside the centerline weapons bays. This is very bad especially because Russian missiles and bombs have bigger diameters than their Western counterparts.

I guess the PAKFA designers focused too much on cutting cost and maintaining the ballerina credentials of the Su-27 family than utility when they designed PAKFA

The F-22 and F-35 do not have this design limitations:

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

 

[gadeshi]

@asianobserve All your posts tell us the one thing: You are stupid and poorly educated teenager that takes his knowledge from Wikipedia at best.
That's you all in your words - from "russian troll factories" to fail knowledge in elementary things like school course of physics and just normal eyes function.

PAK FA MWB doors open on 92 to 95 degs angle. Their aerodynamical layout and doors construction allows all-altitude supersonic (up to 2650km/h) delivery while F-22A ones allow SSD not lower than 10000m at speeds up to 1500km/h.
At the top of this, long and deep MWBs allow T-50 to carry and deliver long and heavy rounds like Kh-58UShK ARMs, Kh-38M and Kh-66 tactical missiles, Kh-66P glide munitions and even Kh-59M-2 TALCMs up to 4 pieces in total (2 in each MWB). E.G., each MWB can carry and deliver up to 2 munitions of 750kg weight each.

If you'd keep your eyes open and brain clear, you'd find a prototype MWBs open photos when those prototype bays were tested on "pregnant" S-37 Berkut.
But you'll not find anything cause you are not interested in a real data or technical solutions (cause your poor education doesn't allow you to assess them right).
You are just a poor moron.

 

[lcafanboy]

With Both FGFA and AMCA failing to take off, India’s 5th Gen Fighter Projects looks rudderless
Published July 13, 2017 SOURCE: ABHOY ROY / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

Six months ago, Modi Government appointed a three-star officer to look into different aspects of the multi-billion dollar fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) programme to co-develop a stealth fighter with Russia, since then nothing much has been confirmed or denied about it by government officials in the media nor discussed in recently concluded Modi’s visit to Russia . FGFA programme was first contacted in 2010 and preliminary design stage was completed in 2013 after spending Rs 1,500 crore but even after seven years project has not made any headway’s while Current Government is preparing to hand out a 100 fighter jet deal to American Companies to dump their 40-year-old F-16s in India. Former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha speaking to the media some time back had said that all will come down to affordability and according to experts FGFA project due to $4-billion research and development (R&D) cost and guaranteed orders for 120 + jets with the same level of Transfer of Technology will make this jets more expensive than Dassault Rafale breaching 120$ Million Dollar per Unit barrier. Present administration seems to have developed Cold feet in finding the money required for the investment in the development of FGFA project and chances are that this might be Second Indo-Russian Military project which might be shelved by this Government after MTA Transporter Co-development Project was dropped earlier this year. The situation of India’s Indeingeiuos Proposed 5th Generation fighter jet proposal too looks shaky, since Government is yet to clear and provide full-scale sanction of the funding required for the project to commence at full scale, While Government has cleared initial funds it is also clear that amount sanctioned for the Design Bureau Team is too little to even start development of core technologies required for 5th generation fighter jet program. While India is yet to even select a partner to develop a suitable power plant for the AMCA fighter jet, there are clear indications that the project is unlikely to take off very soon, rendering Aeronautical Development Agency which is the nodal agency for the design & development of AMCA pretty much jobless. Development of upgraded Tejas MK-1A will be a totally internal job which will be carried out by HAL and Tejas MK-2 Project is still unclear even though the first aircraft will have its flight by 2021-22. Both FGFA and AMCA seems to have been stuck under Red Tape of Bureaucracy of the present government which still has part-time Defence Minister which is holding up the clearance to many key crucial projects like development of Next Generation aircraft carriers and fighter aircraft, which is still waiting for final clearance from the PMO and Defence ministry. Pakistan on the other hand already has declared it will be acquiring 5th generation fighter jets soon and there is a high possibility that Chinese J-31 might be co-developed with Pakistan or Pakistan might accept Turkey’s co-development offer on their TAI TFX 5th generation fighter jet proposal and might be first to introduce 5th generation fighter jet in the region. Many experts fear that F-16 deal will soon lead to F-35 deal with Lockheed Martin and AMCA project might face the brunt of this decision like LCA-Tejas Project faced due to strong Import lobby in India. lack of support coming for AMCA Project in Private Defence Sector also suggest Private Sector are more interested in the quick buck with no R&D investment to make their foray in defence sector in India. With Prices of F-35A all set to fall under 80 Million dollar per Unit post-2020 and with available Amercian ecosystem in India, thanks to F-16s production it might be matter of time before India falls for Marketing gimmick of American companies in disguise of promoting “Assemble in India ” rather than ” Make Indian product in India ” .

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website http://idrw.org/with-both-fgfa-and-amca-failing-to-take-off-indias-5th-gen-fighter-projects-looks-rudderless/#more-141324 .

 

[airtel]

With Both FGFA and AMCA failing to take off, India’s 5th Gen Fighter Projects looks rudderless
Published July 13, 2017 SOURCE: ABHOY ROY / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG




idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website http://idrw.org/with-both-fgfa-and-amca-failing-to-take-off-indias-5th-gen-fighter-projects-looks-rudderless/#more-141324 .

these My take Articles of IRDW are extremely unreliable .

 

[gadeshi]

Well, I always wonder in IAF command extreme volatility in any weapons purchase or dev program goals and process as well.
The normal way is to form substantial requirements, assess their sanity,correct them and then decide what do you want and why.
If PAK FA/FGFA meet your needs - OK, if F-35 or any other does it - OK as well.
You can make a reasonable choice only in the case of your requirements sanity and stability.
In the other way it will be a nightmare creating complete chaos and further delays.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Best option will be to negotiate prices with Russia, we desperately need some stealth TOT for our AMCA.

 

[gadeshi]

More T-50-1 (1-01) - the first fligt prototype for your consideration:

And T-50-4 (1-04) as well:

And both of them togather:

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Best option will be to negotiate prices with Russia, we desperately need some stealth TOT for our AMCA.

Babu ko kaun samjhaye.No one will give you full ToT of technologies they have developed over decades.They may give you the basics to develop your own system using some years.

 

[lcafanboy]

these My take Articles of IRDW are extremely unreliable .

They maybe unreliable but can't change the fact: We have been seeing pictures, models of AMCA from 2009 and it is 2017 not a single prototype made nor proper funds allocated. Welcome to TEJAS RETUNS sequel of Tejas in making. AMCA will fly in 2025-28 testing and IOC by 2035 FOC 2040 only to declared obsolete as the world will be moving towards 6th gen unmanned fighters...............

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Anyone thinking AMCA is being delusional.We dont even have a FOC LCA.

 

[gadeshi]

T-50-8 (1-08) in the sunset:

 

[gadeshi]

They maybe unreliable but can't change the fact: We have been seeing pictures, models of AMCA from 2009 and it is 2017 not a single prototype made nor proper funds allocated. Welcome to TEJAS RETUNS sequel of Tejas in making. AMCA will fly in 2025-28 testing and IOC by 2035 FOC 2040 only to declared obsolete as the world will be moving towards 6th gen unmanned fighters...............

There are 3 Indian prototypes (PMI-1/2/3) in production on KnAAZ to be delivered in 2019-2020.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

There are 3 Indian prototypes (PMI-1/2/3) in production on KnAAZ to be delivered in 2019-2020.

Prototype of what?FGFA?Pak Fa?

 

[Suryavanshi]

Prototype of what?FGFA?Pak Fa?

I think he means AMCA
There was a prototype pic of AMCA recently posted here.

 

[gadeshi]

Prototype of what?FGFA?Pak Fa?

Indian-adapted PAK FA prototypes for evaluation and development under FGFA program.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Indian-adapted PAK FA prototypes for evaluation and development under FGFA program.

What is named as PMF?Any idea if it will have a newer engine?

 

[gadeshi]

What is named as PMF?Any idea if it will have a newer engine?

PMI (PMF in English as Prospective Multirole Fighter) is Indian adapted Stage-II airframe and avionics PAK FA which can be equipped with Item 117 or Item 30 engines on demand (those engines are completely interchangeable).
There are too few details on tthose prototypes so far, let's wait for more info.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

PMI (PMF in English as Prospective Multirole Fighter) is Indian adapted Stage-II airframe and avionics PAK FA which can be equipped with Item 117 or Item 30 engines on demand (those engines are completely interchangeable).
There are too few details on tthose prototypes so far, let's wait for more info.

Atleast there is some work happening.In the meanwhile IAF must look at inducting atleast 2 squadrons of PAKFA till PMI is ready for induction.


Any idea if a PAKFA is upgradeable to PMI?

 

[gadeshi]

Atleast there is some work happening.In the meanwhile IAF must look at inducting atleast 2 squadrons of PAKFA till PMI is ready for induction.
Any idea if a PAKFA is upgradeable to PMI?

Update PAK FA to FGFA level? Why to?
Export weapons can be equal or inferior to Russian-internal usage ones
Why do you believe that FGFA will be superior to original PAK FA?

PMI prototypes are actually a PAK FA Stage-II prototypes, single seaters, with minor changes required by IAF for seamless usage and English localised software.
They are not FGFA prototypes but a planes for interim testing and evaluation by IAF to help them form up sane and substantial requirements for FGFA project based on T-50 platform.
FGFA will be generally a twin-seater PAK FA with Indian mission computers, partial Indian software and Indian weapons integrated. All of this with wide TOT and Make in India offsets.

 

[smestarz]

Just one small question,
Russia is no longer USSR, the flag is no longer RED background with hammer and sickle and Star, its White blue and red horizontal bands. Why are the wing and fuselage markings still the same old Red Star?

More T-50-1 (1-01) - the first fligt prototype for your consideration:

And T-50-4 (1-04) as well:

And both of them togather: