Sukhoi PAK FA

[notinlove]

Ok!!! i have heard this rumour enuff number of times to ask.

is the FGFA a lighter and possibly smaller version of PAK FA??

In early 2005, when Sukhoi OKB gave its first generic presentation on the T-50 PAK-FA FGFA to Indian Air Force (IAF) HQ, it was quite surprised to hear that the IAF wanted a twin-engined, tandem-seat 17.2-tonne aircraft that was at least 5 tonnes lighter than the T-50 PAK-FA
http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2008/10/fgfa-conundrum-explained.html
.

India, which wants a two-seater, lighter version of FGFA, would take part in the development of trainer version from the very beginning.
http://www.brahmand.com/news/Russia-to-commence-flight-tests-of-FGFA/2785/1/11.html

The Russian Defence Ministry has indicated that the Russian Air Force will be inducting the FGFA which will have stealth features, greater engine resource, enhanced target acquisition, new weapon suites and airframe different from the present generation of fighters. As for India, a lighter twin-seater version of the fifth generation fighter would be developed.
http://indiadefenceonline.com/1180/russia-to-engage-india-in-5th-generation-fighter-development/

if this is true then i might be the saddest man in india today

 

[p2prada]

Why do we always have to define multi-role applications to every damn fighter? I think Pak-Fa should remain just an air-dominance platform and once air-superiority is achieved, we always have the MKI's to be used as a bomber.

But, Why?
Having a fighter solely dedicated for strike or air superiority will only mean we need more Paisa. The Russians rely heavily on their IADS. Their primary strike package will be carried by heavy bombers like the Tu-160 with a PAKFA escort. We don't have such extravagant luxuries or such big planes for escort duties.

What DD said only helps one part of the overall scheme of things. Logistics.
We must have really good bombers if we have to build up like the USAF or the RuAF. It is not something we can look at in the short term.

However, our primary goal is speed. Any threat must be handled as soon as possible. It can be an intruding aircraft or a bullock cart carrying a nuclear warhead. Our fighters will have to be able to engage both threats simultaneously. We don't have the luxury of being separated by 2 continents. Having soft borders is almost always a bad thing.

P2P,

Thanks for the clarification on twin seats. I did not know that FGFA's seat comes at cost of fuel tanks. So does it mean lesser range for FGFA compared to Pak-Fa?

Not very. The smallest fuel tanks are present behind the cockpit. Eliminating it would mean a 10-15% reduction in range, perhaps lesser since the primary fuel tanks are used for take off. mid air refuelling will help negate the handicap compared to the PAKFA. We do not know the exact schematics either. This is only coming from the Su-35 experience. We can manage with lesser range anyway, which in itself is BIG. We are not a Russia size country, so having massive range does not serve any purpose.

 

[timmolntz]

I think that the PAKFA has a lot more surprises that are not spoken about.
Or else why would India invest so much money in this project.

First look at the front view (not the isometric views shown in photos)

The cross sectional area is much smaller than the F22 raptor.
This makes it very easy to push through the air.
Therefore the PAKFA can fly a lot faster than we imagine.

For stealth to hold the plane must always be in perfect condition during flight.
No aircraft can accomplish this. Rivets come loose, paint always peels off, debris and dust gets stuck in all places during flight. When stealth goes what’s left is maneuverability and speed.
I think the PAKFA will match or even outmatch the F22 in this area.

Radar looking at the side view of these two aircraft will have a bigger vertical stabilizer on the F22 to look at.
So the PAKFA will be no slouch in stealth either.

I love how those massive engines overwhelm the slim main fuselage.
It’s like a thoroughbred rearing to go.
India made a brilliant decision to get these.
PAKFA will pose many problems for its enemies.

 

[StealthSniper]

When I initially heard that India was going to have a large number of 2 seater versions of PAKFA I was not very happy about it, but now it seems to make sense. Only problem is, we have a shortage of pilots if I am correct and how will the IAF be able to get the required amount of highly trained pilots ready for our MMRCA, PAKFA, FGFA and new Su-30MKI. It is possible but we need a lot of new pilots.

 

[ppgj]

Only problem is, we have a shortage of pilots if I am correct and how will the IAF be able to get the required amount of highly trained pilots ready for our MMRCA, PAKFA, FGFA and new Su-30MKI. It is possible but we need a lot of new pilots.

a point - but it is being taken care. also one needs to remember, these aircrafts pack more punch and hence they can do the job of 2 normal aircrafts. so, less crafts addressing the shortage of pilots, if any.

New Delhi: To bridge the pilot shortage it faces at present, the IAF has increased the number of recruits in its pilot training institution to fill the gaps when future inductions begin, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said on Friday.

But Naik said the shortfall in the number of pilots was not "alarming" and it could be meet.

http://www.zeenews.com/news569698.html

but this is interesting. india lacks fighters more than pilots.

Nearly 20% of Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots are doing desk jobs because of a shortage of planes, the BBC has learnt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5094234.stm

 

[p2prada]

We don't have a shortage of pilots and actually have a surplus that will cover the next decade too. This is a result of phasing out of the old Mig-21s without any new inductions. Many pilots have even quit the air force for the civilian industry.

 

[gambit]

The cross sectional area is much smaller than the F22 raptor.
This makes it very easy to push through the air.
Therefore the PAKFA can fly a lot faster than we imagine.

For stealth to hold the plane must always be in perfect condition during flight.
No aircraft can accomplish this. Rivets come loose, paint always peels off, debris and dust gets stuck in all places during flight. When stealth goes what’s left is maneuverability and speed.
I think the PAKFA will match or even outmatch the F22 in this area.

Radar looking at the side view of these two aircraft will have a bigger vertical stabilizer on the F22 to look at.
So the PAKFA will be no slouch in stealth either.

You must be joking, right?

 

[SATISH]

I think that the PAKFA has a lot more surprises that are not spoken about.
Or else why would India invest so much money in this project.

First look at the front view (not the isometric views shown in photos)

The cross sectional area is much smaller than the F22 raptor.
This makes it very easy to push through the air.
Therefore the PAKFA can fly a lot faster than we imagine.

For stealth to hold the plane must always be in perfect condition during flight.
No aircraft can accomplish this. Rivets come loose, paint always peels off, debris and dust gets stuck in all places during flight. When stealth goes what’s left is maneuverability and speed.
I think the PAKFA will match or even outmatch the F22 in this area.

Radar looking at the side view of these two aircraft will have a bigger vertical stabilizer on the F22 to look at.
So the PAKFA will be no slouch in stealth either.

I love how those massive engines overwhelm the slim main fuselage.
It’s like a thoroughbred rearing to go.
India made a brilliant decision to get these.
PAKFA will pose many problems for its enemies.

That is why composites are used. The surface area is always kept smooth so that the airframe is not damaged during flight. Yes the aircraft cant achieve 100% stealth but can try to reach near perfection. The RAM paint on the aircraft peels off yes I agree but that is the headache of the ground maintainance crew. And I dont know how you have started comparing the PAKFA to the F22?...Let it first explore its flight envelope and get it's new engines installed then we can go into all that. The PAKFA right now is just a model between the TD and the prototype...perhaps that is what the banner of Sukhoi says...."There is more to come".

 

[p2prada]

The cross sectional area is much smaller than the F22 raptor.
This makes it very easy to push through the air.
Therefore the PAKFA can fly a lot faster than we imagine.

The bigger SR-71 will still cream the PAKFA in speed. F-22 has nothing do with PAKFA's speed.

 

[Sridhar]

more photos of the First ever pakfa pilot

Photo credit :Suman sharma

 

[kuku]

more photos of the First ever pakfa pilot

Photo credit :Suman sharma

Photo op with a Russian pilot wearing the F-16IN jumpsuit, classic.

 

[Daredevil]

About reduction of RCS
Via Keypubs

Andrey Lagarjkov, Director General of the United Institute of High Temperatures of the Russian Academy of Sciences (and an Associate Member of the Academy), talks about Russian stealth technology in the following interview with the Russia/CIS Observer.

Until recently, all Russian developments in the field of stealth technologies were strictly classified. There weren't any reports made concerning research institutes dealing with these issues. The veil was raised somewhat last year when it was announced for the first time that the United Institute of High Temperatures of the Russian Academy of Sciences was carrying out research in the domain of reduced aircraft visibility. The information was rather sketchy. It was reported that the institute is specialized in creating materials with new properties, in particular with ferromagnetics and so-called artificial magnetics. It was pointed out that technologies developed by the institute were used in designing and manufacturing the Sukhoi Su-27M and Su-37 (Su-47). Director General Lagarjkov, who hasn't spoken about such matters in public before, told Sergey Sokut about work of his institute in greater detail.

How does Russia's way of making aircraft stealthy differ from the American technology?

- The Americans have two approaches. The first, and earliest one, was used for the F-117 and B-2. The low radar cross-section (RCS) was achieved through the shape of the aircraft and the use of radar-absorbing materials to cover the airframe. In this application, the principle of minimal level of visibility was a cornerstone - and other characteristics had to be sacrificed. For example, both aircraft are subsonic. Later the Americans tried another approach: modern radar absorbing materials are applied to F-16 and F-18, as well as to 5th generation F-22 and JSF combat aircraft, which have a traditional shape. The low level of visibility is achieved through different techniques, which Mikhail Pogosyan, director of Sukhoi, and I are going to reveal in the near future. We and the Americans are close to each other in this type of technology. Russia possesses the technology for upgrading in-service aircraft with modern stealth characteristics, and moreover, this technology is demanded by foreign operators of Russian aircraft. We, together with Sukhoi, have achieved world-class results in this area, which are confirmed by tests of real aircraft. We also can optimize the shape of the aircraft to lower the level of visibility, but I still wouldn't like to speak about the use of our techniques for 5th generation aircraft.

When would it be possible to speak about achieved results?

- Some discussion is possible today. The exact results of radar cross-section reduction will never be disclosed, neither here in Russia nor abroad. But sometime ago it was announced that the RCS of a MiG-21 fighter after its treatment by our institute is approximately 0.25 sq m. This corresponds to the characteristics of a cruise missile.

How far is it possible to go in reducing visibility of the 4th generation aircraft, and what additional improvements can be achieved in the next generation?

- My MiG-21 example demonstrates that the RCS of upgraded/modernized aircraft can be reduced 12-15 times. If we speak about new designed models, I wouldn't want to discuss the numbers publically.

In the press, information has been published about exotic technologies for providing low visibility, for example, plasma. How effective is it?

- We use plasma in solving the problems of RCS of an aircraft's nosecone. In general, plasma technologies are very useful at flight altitudes of more than 25 km. At low altitudes it is impossible to use them, because there is not enough power on board.

What is the share of stealth technologies in the total aircraft cost?

- If stringent, but reasonable requirements for visibility are implemented in the project from the very beginning, it won't be too large. I'd like to point out here that at my institue, we have carried out advanced work in fundamental research. I also want to stress here that we had to do this without governmental support - funding our research from out-of-budget sources during the last 10-15 years.

It is known that you cooperate closely with Sukhoi. What about the institute's work with other design bureaus?

- Recently, we have started cooperating intensively with the others as well.

If we compare achievements of different countries in the reduction of aircraft visibility, who would the leaders be? Obviously, the Americans would hit the top, wouldn't they?

- The Americans are no. 1 because of the application of stealth to a large volume of real products. But considering the understanding of the whole problem in general - and the potential - I don't think the Americans are better than we are. We are able to achieve, and already have achieved, the same - and even in some areas, we have had somewhat better results. Another plus for the Americans is their broader application of stealth. In particular, they are entering the world market with the stealthy aircraft. Similar developments are being made in Europe, but the level of these countries is not so high. The French are tackling this problem as well. They have very good research equipment - anechoic chambers, for example. Their Rafale fighter is advertised as an aircraft with a low radar cross-section.

 

[timmolntz]

This is why I focused on speed and engine power. There I think the PAKFA is very comparable to the F22 in this area.
Only in supercruse its lagging.
Links


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA

The Raptor's very high sustained cruise speed and operational altitude add significantly to the effective range of both air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions

During June 2006 exercises in Alaska, F-22 pilots demonstrated that cruise altitude has a significant effect on combat performance, and routinely attributed their altitude advantage as a major factor in achieving an unblemished kill ratio against other US fighters and 4th/4.5th generation fighters.


F22 stats
• Maximum speed:
o At altitude: Mach 2.25 (1,500 mph, 2,410 km/h)[85]
o Supercruise: Mach 1.82 (1,220 mph, 1,963 km/h)[85]
• Thrust/weight: 1.08 (1.26 with loaded weight & 50% fuel)
o Dry thrust: 29,300 lb[citation needed] (130 kN) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 35,000+ lb (156+ kN) each
•
Comparable aircraft
• Northrop YF-23
• Sukhoi PAK FA
The F-22 apparently relies less on maintenance-intensive radar absorbent material andcoatings than previous stealth designs like the F-117. These materials caused deployment problems due to their susceptibility to adverse weather conditions

2009 Lockheed Martin released information on the F-22, showing it to have a radar cross section from certain critical angles of -40 dBsm — the equivalent radar reflection of a "steel marble".[122] However, the stealth features of the F-22 require additional maintenance work that decreases their mission capability rate to approximately 62-70%.[123]

As soon as the F-22 maneuvers, it exposes a different set of angles and a greater surface area to any radar, increasing its visibility. Furthermore, the use of stealth contouring and radar absorbent material are chiefly effective against high-frequency radars, the type usually found on other aircraft. Low-frequency radars, including weather radars and warning stations in areas of the former Soviet Union, are allegedly less affected by stealth characteristics and are more capable of detecting some of the aircraft employing them


Now compared with the PAKFA
• Maximum speed: 2,600 km/h (Mach 2.45) (at 17,000 m altitude) (1,615 mph (at 45,000 ft altitude))
• Cruise speed: 1,300 - 1,800 km/h (808 - 1,118 mph)
• Service ceiling: 20,000 m (65,616 ft)
• Rate Thrust/weight: 1.4
• Rate of climb: 350 m/sec (1184 ft/sec)
• Powerplant: 2× New unnamed engine by NPO Saturn of 175 KN each[38],[45]

 

[Agantrope]

Still i am not clear that we are going for 2-seater pak-fa or lightweight version of pakfa with 2-seater? anyone pls clarify?

 

[ppgj]

Still i am not clear that we are going for 2-seater pak-fa or lightweight version of pakfa with 2-seater? anyone pls clarify?

it is the same PAKFA but with 2 seat arrangement called as FGFA. there is no lightweight version.

Today, Russia is five years into the development of the FGFA. In November 2007, India and Russia signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement on co-developing the fighter, but it has taken two more years to agree upon common specifications, work shares in development, and in resolving issues like Intellectual Property Rights (IPR).

The prototype that Sukhoi has built is tailored to Russian Air Force requirements. But the IAF has different specifications and the JV will cater for both air forces, producing two different, but closely related, aircraft. For example, Russia wants a single-seat fighter; the IAF, happy with the Su-30MKI, insists upon a twin-seat fighter with one pilot flying and the other handling the sensors, networks and weaponry.

Negotiations have resolved even this fundamental conflict. India has agreed to buy a mix of about 50 single-seat and 200 twin-seat aircraft. Russia, in turn, will consider buying more twin-seat aircraft to use as trainers. But even as both countries narrow their differences, fresh challenges lie ahead: preparing India’s nascent aerospace industry for the high-tech job of developing and manufacturing a fifth-generation fighter.

http://www.business-standard.com/in...-close-to-pactnext-generation-fighter/381718/

 

[ahmedsid]

Why is the lady wearing American Flag??? Thats something thats been bugging me for a long time now! Why so?

 

[bengalraider]

Why is the lady wearing American Flag??? Thats something thats been bugging me for a long time now! Why so?

If you see the uniform you will see that it is just not the american flag alone but the uniform depicts the star spangled banner and the tricolor together as allies ; a sales pitch by LM no less.

 

[ahmedsid]

If you see the uniform you will see that it is just not the american flag alone but the uniform depicts the star spangled banner and the tricolor together as allies ; a sales pitch by LM no less.

So she is there to promote the Viper! WoW!!! Thats an awesome sales pitch!

The PAKFA surely has given the folks at LM sleepless nights I guess

 

[Daredevil]

So she is there to promote the Viper! WoW!!! Thats an awesome sales pitch!

The PAKFA surely has given the folks at LM sleepless nights I guess

When there was Aero India 2009 last year, F-16 was advertised and she got a chance to ride F-16 in Viper's overalls. She has been using that same overall on other flights as well like MiG-35 and Su-30. Nothing to do with sales pitch.

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

Photo credit :Suman sharma

How the hell do I get her job?