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^^ Photochop........^^
Sukhoi PAK FA
- Thread starter Anshu Attri
- Start date
Quickgun Murugan
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That is awesome work man. Do you have more views for the same pic?My guess at PAK-FA internal layout. Details speculative obviously. I kept the T-50 canopy.
Been wondering what the Indian version will look like - simply a two seat version, or quite different. Click for Hi-Res pic
notinlove
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I think other than the nozzles most of the engine would be sleeved, also with this cockpit position, they just might coat the pilots helmet with a thick coat of RAMMy guess at PAK-FA internal layout. Details speculative obviously. I kept the T-50 canopy.
Been wondering what the Indian version will look like - simply a two seat version, or quite different. Click for Hi-Res pic
Amazing drawing by the way,
also can you point out the major differences between T-50 and your drawing
TIA
gb009
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You did that in MS paint!!!! WOW, awesome stuff
Anshu Attri
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http://www.grandestrategy.com/2010/02/russian-are-coming-t-50s-flight-to.html
The Russians Are Coming: The T-50's Flight to the Future
Introduction
In late January 2010, the PAK FA made its maiden flight, ushering in an end to an era of US dominance of stealth, fifth generation fighter aircraft. Military analysts of every shade and nation spent endless times speculating and awaited the first flight with sleepless nights and over bitter arguments about its final configuration, for the PAK FA was kept so secretive that none other than a very choice few knew what it would look like.
Combat aircraft are the spear tip of any military power, and play a pivotal role in air warfare. And in today's day and age, any nation that has the decisive advantage in the air war, dominates the ground war, and by extension, the political arena. The PAK FA, also known as the T-50 and possibly to be known in its final version as the Su-50, is an aircraft that not only Russia, but the world needed. For the unipolar world that ushered in an American Empire has increasingly become an unfair and unjust world where American arrogance and exploitation is increasingly creating fiction, not only with the Muslim world but with such powers that have had the most to lose and least to gain, such as China, Russia and Brazil.
Even some of the US's allies in Europe, staunch in their support are increasingly feeling like surrogates rather than allies, slaves rather than friends. An example within the military aviation industry is the F-35, a promised cooperative project by the US with its allies, has turned into a chain of dependence, where vital software codes and maintenance legacies will now remain in the purview of the US, with their Allies permanently dependent. It is no wonder that many Western Europeans of various shades have cheered at the PAK FA, even though it is Russian. Freedom perhaps cannot exist in a monopoly.
The PAK FA is an answer to the US F-22, a fifth generation fighter that till now had no equal. A comparative analysis will follow later in this paper, but for now it suffices to say that it contends with the F-22 on stealth, aerodynamic performance and sensor sophistication and capability, as well as in cost, maintenance and practicality.
It must be understood that the T-50 is not merely a combat aircraft, it is an investment in technology and engineering that has implications for Russian industry, and has economic implications for Russia as well as for Su-50 customers who may thus be able to avoid conflict by deterrence. As a superficial example, two squadrons of this aircraft with Iran would dispel all possibilities of an Israeli strike on that nation.
Guesstimates on Performance
There is scant data on the PAK FA, but educated estimates can be made from carefully analyzing pictures and videos. Following are some basic guesstimates on the present prototype aircraft by this author:
Length 19.5m
Height 5m
Wingspan 14m
Empty Weight 18.5t
Wing area: 75 m2
Performance
Much of the performance analysis is unreliable as the actual power-plant is unknown. However, it should be in the range of a max speed of 2.5 Mach, service ceiling of 20,000 m and rate of climb greater than 350 m/second.
Armament
Guns: 1x30mm
Hardpoints: unknown, speculated to be 8 hardpoints.
Radar
The aircraft is known to have five radar modules with known primary radar to be an AESA. Innovative wing leading edge radar of lower frequency (perhaps L band) would be able to locate stealth aircraft like the F-22, a capability that the F-22 does not have.
General Analysis
Basic Aerodynamics
The wings on the PAK FA are large and well-swept, optimized for supersonic flight and for high(er) altitudes. In comparison to the F-22, given even remotely comparable engines, the PAK FA should be able to fly faster, for longer and supercruise more effectively (with lower fuel consumption and greater speed).
The all-wing shape of the PAK FA follows the same principles that was so successful with the Su-27 FLANKER and the MiG-29 FULCRUM and not only provides lift, but also provides ample space (along with the large wings) for massive fuel and/or weapons bays. Reducing drag, increasing range and payload and creating lift and stands in good light compared to the F-22s design.
Air Intakes
CARET inlets of the air intakes are useful for “wave riding”, generating increased lift for the airframe. This allows lower RCS and increased airflow. With the long length of its horizontal wedged edge (of the inlet) additionally helps lift.
Large, moveable Leading Edge Root Extensions (LERX) over the inlets are highly innovative and perhaps plays a role in making the PAK FA super-maneuverable. It is not a flap-like structure but perhaps more like an aileron and behaves in someways perhaps like a canard.
This is an interesting innovation and also provides a solution for the PAK FA in managing air-flow over the wing and onto the slanted stabilizers, solving problems of a twin-tailed delta configuration.
Angled Twin Stabilizers
The twin all-moving stabilizers are innovative in that they can be smaller and have the same effect as a larger conventional stabilizer. Given that the PAK FA also has 3D Thrust Vector Controls (TVC), this makes the PAKFA a fundamentally more stealthy design given that large stabilizers contribute to RCS significantly. Other advantages include reduced weight, stability in hard maneuvering and the ability to go supersonic in a turn.
Large Tires
The large low(er) pressure tires, a bane for space on an airframe implies that the Russians are still staying real, for in any future conflict with a comparable power, airbases could easily be destroyed and operating from semi-prepared strips would provide the Russians (and any other operator) with a key advantage over American designs, whose runways have to be carefully combed for the smallest intrusion.
Technology and Basic Industrial Manufacturing
The PAK FA is built using new methods that the Soviet Union did not have – electro-chemical milling rather than traditional welding methods. While this has been in use since the late 1950s in the West, this method has only now found its way to Russia. This would allow far better finish which has major implications to stealth and minor implications to reducing drag. Along with RAM coatings and the extensive use of composites, this spells a major industrial leap for Russian industry.
Sensor Fusion
Electronics and avionics have traditionally been an area that Russia lagged behind in. However, the PAK FA makes ground here as well. Other than having five radars, informed sources understand that it has a high degree of sensor fusion, combining sensor fusion, Electronic Warfare (EW), data linking and the general Man-Machine Interface (MMI) are said to now be in the league of the US fighters. How far this gets confirmed is yet to be seen but this author believes that given the Russian IT sector's pivotal role globally, this is a leap they have long made and are but only now implementing in their aviation industry.
RCS Reduction
The PAK FA is the first non-American stealth VLO fighter. The F-22's frontal Radar Cross Section (RCS) is compared to a metal marble, the F-35's to a golf ball and it is this author's speculative contention that the PAK FA's could perhaps be compared to a baseball. The Russians are not looking to make the aerodynamic tradeoffs to stealth that the US has made, for a variety of reasons including the effectiveness and costs of such stealth. Given that stealth in the real world would be far less effective than the advertised “metal marble” because the enemy may not always come exactly head on, nor use the radar's that the F-22s were tested with. Nor would any future competent enemy only have one radar on (but rather a plethora of ground and airborne radars at various frequencies). Further, wear and tear in a real world operational scenario are likely to reduce stealth.
The PAK FA thus would save weight and enjoy superior aerodynamics while trading off some stealth. It's S-duct may not fully hide its fan blades from every possible angle but rather perhaps allow a maximum of 5% of it to be exposed from very specific angles. These may still be RAM quoted and netted.
The PAK FA abandons stealth from the rear quarter altogether. Detractors would scoff at such a tradeoff but, considering the aerodynamics and high altitude and high speed effectiveness of PAK FA, the aircraft may not need stealth in the hind quarters, as it could always out run any enemy. Case in point, the F-35 which also remains exposed from the rear quarters would have no such capability. For air combat after a merge however, this would still be an issue for the PAK FA, but RCS reduction then becomes of little relevance, given that IR missiles and IRSTs would then be more effective in any case.
The Russians seem to have carefully watched the US fighter programs, taking the best elements without buying Lockheed Martin propaganda and stealth as the final panacea to fighter combat.
Comparison
The PAK FA compares most favorably to the F-22, surpassing it on a number of parameters while sacrificing certain parameters to the F-22. The relationship is not dissimilar to that between the early FLANKER and the F-15. Primarily, the F-22 is stealthier while the PAK FA is likely to exceed the F-22 in the critical arena of a high-high combat profile. The PAK FA also has a bigger weapons bay and greater fuel capacity. In terms of operational capability and cost, the PAK FA wins hands down to the high cost and complicated maintenance of the F-22, while the PAK FA is said to be an improvement over the maintainability of the Su-27. It could cost a third of an F-22 by its greater simplicity and managed tradeoffs as well as greater production run (being procured by both Russia and India if not any other country).
Until the US produces the next generation of aircraft, this spells the end of their monopoly in 5th generation aircraft and is likely to usher in other players such as China and perhaps give enough hope to Europe to produce its own fighter rather than sink to the humiliation to their sovereignty that the F-35 provides.
The Euro-canards now appear out-dated and out-classed, a situation unlikely to sit well with Western Europe. Given the attitude of the US towards her allies vis-a-vis the F-35, Europe now finds itself between a rock and a hard place. It is the contention of this author that Europe will get together and build a fifth generation fighter, for the spirit of Europe has not been one to see its technological edge corrode or to be demeaned by external powers.
Implications for the Subcontinent
Given that by 2018 the Indian Air Force could be receiving the PAK FA, there are serious implications for India's neighbors, particularly Pakistan. Vis-a-vis India, Bangladesh may as well stop operating an air force, for the gap in capability between the two countries is now too great to bridge.
For Pakistan, this implies that the massive resources and labor that she has spent in closing the gap between her and India will again widen as nothing in the PAF arsenal would compare to the PAK FA. The future of air combat is increasingly moving to high speed high altitude fights, something that the JF-17 design is ill-suited for. The J-10Bs may be of relevance, but would be completely outclassed by the PAK FA. Consider the simple fact that the J-10s powerplant would merely be a fraction of PAK FA's and would have no stealth to speak of in comparison.
The future of the PAF will depend on whether she can again innovate in collaboration with China to build a fifth generation aircraft without breaking the bank. Investments in R&D and a strong commitment from the military and the government would need to start now, if such a project is to succeed. A single engined fifth generation project would also be something that many other smaller powers would be looking for and could be viable in the international arms market. This plane could be built around a WS-15 with a small weapons bay and perhaps built around a high sweep delta. While such a plane may sound impossible now, given that the JF-17 has hardly started production and that China may have little interest in pursuing it for its domestic use, thinking forward could save Pakistan from being threatened again as it was after the Mumbai incident.
Conclusion
Just as the US is being challenged in global economics and is seeing a resistance to its political imperialism and empire building, the world of military aviation also mirrors this challenge in the shape of such aircraft as the French Rafale, the Chinese J-10 and the Indian Su-30MKI. The PAK FA represents the pinnacle of this challenge and puts the ball squarely back to the US court. Can the US now move on to another generation of combat aircraft? With a failing economy, ever decreasing competitiveness, ever increasing dependence on government spending and increasing dependence on indirectly taxing the rest of the world through dollar depreciation, spending billions on a new fighter project may be outside the realms of the US Empire. As such, this may spell the beginning of the end of the US as the center of a uni-polar world. That is exactly what the PAK FA challenges and symbolizes in its capabilities
The Russians Are Coming: The T-50's Flight to the Future
Introduction
In late January 2010, the PAK FA made its maiden flight, ushering in an end to an era of US dominance of stealth, fifth generation fighter aircraft. Military analysts of every shade and nation spent endless times speculating and awaited the first flight with sleepless nights and over bitter arguments about its final configuration, for the PAK FA was kept so secretive that none other than a very choice few knew what it would look like.
Combat aircraft are the spear tip of any military power, and play a pivotal role in air warfare. And in today's day and age, any nation that has the decisive advantage in the air war, dominates the ground war, and by extension, the political arena. The PAK FA, also known as the T-50 and possibly to be known in its final version as the Su-50, is an aircraft that not only Russia, but the world needed. For the unipolar world that ushered in an American Empire has increasingly become an unfair and unjust world where American arrogance and exploitation is increasingly creating fiction, not only with the Muslim world but with such powers that have had the most to lose and least to gain, such as China, Russia and Brazil.
Even some of the US's allies in Europe, staunch in their support are increasingly feeling like surrogates rather than allies, slaves rather than friends. An example within the military aviation industry is the F-35, a promised cooperative project by the US with its allies, has turned into a chain of dependence, where vital software codes and maintenance legacies will now remain in the purview of the US, with their Allies permanently dependent. It is no wonder that many Western Europeans of various shades have cheered at the PAK FA, even though it is Russian. Freedom perhaps cannot exist in a monopoly.
The PAK FA is an answer to the US F-22, a fifth generation fighter that till now had no equal. A comparative analysis will follow later in this paper, but for now it suffices to say that it contends with the F-22 on stealth, aerodynamic performance and sensor sophistication and capability, as well as in cost, maintenance and practicality.
It must be understood that the T-50 is not merely a combat aircraft, it is an investment in technology and engineering that has implications for Russian industry, and has economic implications for Russia as well as for Su-50 customers who may thus be able to avoid conflict by deterrence. As a superficial example, two squadrons of this aircraft with Iran would dispel all possibilities of an Israeli strike on that nation.
Guesstimates on Performance
There is scant data on the PAK FA, but educated estimates can be made from carefully analyzing pictures and videos. Following are some basic guesstimates on the present prototype aircraft by this author:
Length 19.5m
Height 5m
Wingspan 14m
Empty Weight 18.5t
Wing area: 75 m2
Performance
Much of the performance analysis is unreliable as the actual power-plant is unknown. However, it should be in the range of a max speed of 2.5 Mach, service ceiling of 20,000 m and rate of climb greater than 350 m/second.
Armament
Guns: 1x30mm
Hardpoints: unknown, speculated to be 8 hardpoints.
Radar
The aircraft is known to have five radar modules with known primary radar to be an AESA. Innovative wing leading edge radar of lower frequency (perhaps L band) would be able to locate stealth aircraft like the F-22, a capability that the F-22 does not have.
General Analysis
Basic Aerodynamics
The wings on the PAK FA are large and well-swept, optimized for supersonic flight and for high(er) altitudes. In comparison to the F-22, given even remotely comparable engines, the PAK FA should be able to fly faster, for longer and supercruise more effectively (with lower fuel consumption and greater speed).
The all-wing shape of the PAK FA follows the same principles that was so successful with the Su-27 FLANKER and the MiG-29 FULCRUM and not only provides lift, but also provides ample space (along with the large wings) for massive fuel and/or weapons bays. Reducing drag, increasing range and payload and creating lift and stands in good light compared to the F-22s design.
Air Intakes
CARET inlets of the air intakes are useful for “wave riding”, generating increased lift for the airframe. This allows lower RCS and increased airflow. With the long length of its horizontal wedged edge (of the inlet) additionally helps lift.
Large, moveable Leading Edge Root Extensions (LERX) over the inlets are highly innovative and perhaps plays a role in making the PAK FA super-maneuverable. It is not a flap-like structure but perhaps more like an aileron and behaves in someways perhaps like a canard.
This is an interesting innovation and also provides a solution for the PAK FA in managing air-flow over the wing and onto the slanted stabilizers, solving problems of a twin-tailed delta configuration.
Angled Twin Stabilizers
The twin all-moving stabilizers are innovative in that they can be smaller and have the same effect as a larger conventional stabilizer. Given that the PAK FA also has 3D Thrust Vector Controls (TVC), this makes the PAKFA a fundamentally more stealthy design given that large stabilizers contribute to RCS significantly. Other advantages include reduced weight, stability in hard maneuvering and the ability to go supersonic in a turn.
Large Tires
The large low(er) pressure tires, a bane for space on an airframe implies that the Russians are still staying real, for in any future conflict with a comparable power, airbases could easily be destroyed and operating from semi-prepared strips would provide the Russians (and any other operator) with a key advantage over American designs, whose runways have to be carefully combed for the smallest intrusion.
Technology and Basic Industrial Manufacturing
The PAK FA is built using new methods that the Soviet Union did not have – electro-chemical milling rather than traditional welding methods. While this has been in use since the late 1950s in the West, this method has only now found its way to Russia. This would allow far better finish which has major implications to stealth and minor implications to reducing drag. Along with RAM coatings and the extensive use of composites, this spells a major industrial leap for Russian industry.
Sensor Fusion
Electronics and avionics have traditionally been an area that Russia lagged behind in. However, the PAK FA makes ground here as well. Other than having five radars, informed sources understand that it has a high degree of sensor fusion, combining sensor fusion, Electronic Warfare (EW), data linking and the general Man-Machine Interface (MMI) are said to now be in the league of the US fighters. How far this gets confirmed is yet to be seen but this author believes that given the Russian IT sector's pivotal role globally, this is a leap they have long made and are but only now implementing in their aviation industry.
RCS Reduction
The PAK FA is the first non-American stealth VLO fighter. The F-22's frontal Radar Cross Section (RCS) is compared to a metal marble, the F-35's to a golf ball and it is this author's speculative contention that the PAK FA's could perhaps be compared to a baseball. The Russians are not looking to make the aerodynamic tradeoffs to stealth that the US has made, for a variety of reasons including the effectiveness and costs of such stealth. Given that stealth in the real world would be far less effective than the advertised “metal marble” because the enemy may not always come exactly head on, nor use the radar's that the F-22s were tested with. Nor would any future competent enemy only have one radar on (but rather a plethora of ground and airborne radars at various frequencies). Further, wear and tear in a real world operational scenario are likely to reduce stealth.
The PAK FA thus would save weight and enjoy superior aerodynamics while trading off some stealth. It's S-duct may not fully hide its fan blades from every possible angle but rather perhaps allow a maximum of 5% of it to be exposed from very specific angles. These may still be RAM quoted and netted.
The PAK FA abandons stealth from the rear quarter altogether. Detractors would scoff at such a tradeoff but, considering the aerodynamics and high altitude and high speed effectiveness of PAK FA, the aircraft may not need stealth in the hind quarters, as it could always out run any enemy. Case in point, the F-35 which also remains exposed from the rear quarters would have no such capability. For air combat after a merge however, this would still be an issue for the PAK FA, but RCS reduction then becomes of little relevance, given that IR missiles and IRSTs would then be more effective in any case.
The Russians seem to have carefully watched the US fighter programs, taking the best elements without buying Lockheed Martin propaganda and stealth as the final panacea to fighter combat.
Comparison
The PAK FA compares most favorably to the F-22, surpassing it on a number of parameters while sacrificing certain parameters to the F-22. The relationship is not dissimilar to that between the early FLANKER and the F-15. Primarily, the F-22 is stealthier while the PAK FA is likely to exceed the F-22 in the critical arena of a high-high combat profile. The PAK FA also has a bigger weapons bay and greater fuel capacity. In terms of operational capability and cost, the PAK FA wins hands down to the high cost and complicated maintenance of the F-22, while the PAK FA is said to be an improvement over the maintainability of the Su-27. It could cost a third of an F-22 by its greater simplicity and managed tradeoffs as well as greater production run (being procured by both Russia and India if not any other country).
Until the US produces the next generation of aircraft, this spells the end of their monopoly in 5th generation aircraft and is likely to usher in other players such as China and perhaps give enough hope to Europe to produce its own fighter rather than sink to the humiliation to their sovereignty that the F-35 provides.
The Euro-canards now appear out-dated and out-classed, a situation unlikely to sit well with Western Europe. Given the attitude of the US towards her allies vis-a-vis the F-35, Europe now finds itself between a rock and a hard place. It is the contention of this author that Europe will get together and build a fifth generation fighter, for the spirit of Europe has not been one to see its technological edge corrode or to be demeaned by external powers.
Implications for the Subcontinent
Given that by 2018 the Indian Air Force could be receiving the PAK FA, there are serious implications for India's neighbors, particularly Pakistan. Vis-a-vis India, Bangladesh may as well stop operating an air force, for the gap in capability between the two countries is now too great to bridge.
For Pakistan, this implies that the massive resources and labor that she has spent in closing the gap between her and India will again widen as nothing in the PAF arsenal would compare to the PAK FA. The future of air combat is increasingly moving to high speed high altitude fights, something that the JF-17 design is ill-suited for. The J-10Bs may be of relevance, but would be completely outclassed by the PAK FA. Consider the simple fact that the J-10s powerplant would merely be a fraction of PAK FA's and would have no stealth to speak of in comparison.
The future of the PAF will depend on whether she can again innovate in collaboration with China to build a fifth generation aircraft without breaking the bank. Investments in R&D and a strong commitment from the military and the government would need to start now, if such a project is to succeed. A single engined fifth generation project would also be something that many other smaller powers would be looking for and could be viable in the international arms market. This plane could be built around a WS-15 with a small weapons bay and perhaps built around a high sweep delta. While such a plane may sound impossible now, given that the JF-17 has hardly started production and that China may have little interest in pursuing it for its domestic use, thinking forward could save Pakistan from being threatened again as it was after the Mumbai incident.
Conclusion
Just as the US is being challenged in global economics and is seeing a resistance to its political imperialism and empire building, the world of military aviation also mirrors this challenge in the shape of such aircraft as the French Rafale, the Chinese J-10 and the Indian Su-30MKI. The PAK FA represents the pinnacle of this challenge and puts the ball squarely back to the US court. Can the US now move on to another generation of combat aircraft? With a failing economy, ever decreasing competitiveness, ever increasing dependence on government spending and increasing dependence on indirectly taxing the rest of the world through dollar depreciation, spending billions on a new fighter project may be outside the realms of the US Empire. As such, this may spell the beginning of the end of the US as the center of a uni-polar world. That is exactly what the PAK FA challenges and symbolizes in its capabilities
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domain-b.com : High-powered Russian defence delegation to firm up cooperation
High-powered Russian defence delegation to firm up cooperation news
08 February 2010
India and Russia will discuss the development schedule of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) when Russian deputy prime minister, SS Sobyanin, visits India sometime in the middle of the month.
Sukhoi design bureau's PAK FA (Perspektivniy Aviatsionniy Komplex - Frontovoy Aviatsii, or, the Future Front line Aircraft System), project, to give it its Russian designation, is touted as a competitor for the American F-22 Raptor stealth, advanced fighter aircraft programme. Informally, it is also referred to as the 'Raptorski.'
Rich in radar evasion characteristics, the prototype made its maiden flight late last month.
India has a joint development programme for the project where though it will foot development costs on an equal-share basis it will be responsible for the development of 25-30 per cent of the systems, particularly the twin-seat variant asked for by the IAF.
The Russians are developing the single-seat variant.
The FGFA aircraft will act as considerable force-multipliers in the region and will serve to boost the capabilities of a force that is gradually inducting 250-plus Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, currently rated as possibly the best conventional 4th generation fighter in operation with any of the world's air forces.
Unlike the heavy weight Sukhois, India is also set to induct atleast 126 medium category frontline multi-role fighter aircraft over the coming decades under the multi-role medium range combat role aircraft programme (MMRCA).
These too will greatly enhance capabilities of the air force. There are currently six vendors are in the fray for the supply of these aircraft.
The PAK FA/FGFA programme is expected go into mass production in about five years.
Besides the talks on the FGFA programme, the military-technical team accompanying Sobyanin will also hold discussions on the acquisition of additional T-90S tanks, the MiG-29K, which is a naval variant, additional Su-30MKI aircraft and the multi-role transport aircraft project, defence sources said.
Lately, the bilateral defence relationship has made huge progress with the resolution of the vexed issue of re-pricing the Adm Gorshkov project. Russia is now poised to commence deliveries of additional stealth frigates to the Indian Navy.
It is also scheduled to transfer an Akula-II class nuclear-powered submarine to India by the middle of this year.
Sobyanin's visit will be watched with interest in defence circles and will also likely lay the groundwork for premier Vladimir Putin's visit sometime in March or April.
High-powered Russian defence delegation to firm up cooperation news
08 February 2010
India and Russia will discuss the development schedule of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) when Russian deputy prime minister, SS Sobyanin, visits India sometime in the middle of the month.
Sukhoi design bureau's PAK FA (Perspektivniy Aviatsionniy Komplex - Frontovoy Aviatsii, or, the Future Front line Aircraft System), project, to give it its Russian designation, is touted as a competitor for the American F-22 Raptor stealth, advanced fighter aircraft programme. Informally, it is also referred to as the 'Raptorski.'
Rich in radar evasion characteristics, the prototype made its maiden flight late last month.
India has a joint development programme for the project where though it will foot development costs on an equal-share basis it will be responsible for the development of 25-30 per cent of the systems, particularly the twin-seat variant asked for by the IAF.
The Russians are developing the single-seat variant.
The FGFA aircraft will act as considerable force-multipliers in the region and will serve to boost the capabilities of a force that is gradually inducting 250-plus Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, currently rated as possibly the best conventional 4th generation fighter in operation with any of the world's air forces.
Unlike the heavy weight Sukhois, India is also set to induct atleast 126 medium category frontline multi-role fighter aircraft over the coming decades under the multi-role medium range combat role aircraft programme (MMRCA).
These too will greatly enhance capabilities of the air force. There are currently six vendors are in the fray for the supply of these aircraft.
The PAK FA/FGFA programme is expected go into mass production in about five years.
Besides the talks on the FGFA programme, the military-technical team accompanying Sobyanin will also hold discussions on the acquisition of additional T-90S tanks, the MiG-29K, which is a naval variant, additional Su-30MKI aircraft and the multi-role transport aircraft project, defence sources said.
Lately, the bilateral defence relationship has made huge progress with the resolution of the vexed issue of re-pricing the Adm Gorshkov project. Russia is now poised to commence deliveries of additional stealth frigates to the Indian Navy.
It is also scheduled to transfer an Akula-II class nuclear-powered submarine to India by the middle of this year.
Sobyanin's visit will be watched with interest in defence circles and will also likely lay the groundwork for premier Vladimir Putin's visit sometime in March or April.
Quickgun Murugan
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original Image
Super cool image
Super cool image
Lol, that's the same photo I used for my cutaway.
notinlove, my drawing has only minor changes from the T-50-I. I removed the pitot tube (spike on nose), the sensor probes on the starboard forward fuselage, and painted it in Splinter as per the Saturn 'semi-official' PAK-FA images. I also drew weapons and avionics which are almost certainly not present in the first flying prototypes obviously.
notinlove, my drawing has only minor changes from the T-50-I. I removed the pitot tube (spike on nose), the sensor probes on the starboard forward fuselage, and painted it in Splinter as per the Saturn 'semi-official' PAK-FA images. I also drew weapons and avionics which are almost certainly not present in the first flying prototypes obviously.
KiranVedula
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What's the India contribution to PAK-FA?
p2prada
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Go back to page 1 and start reading.
black eagle
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there should have been subtitles on this video. I am unable to understand anything they are saying. wish i knew russian.
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Fortunately for you, I am in a translation mood.
Su-47 Berkut, aircraft with swept back wings mistakenly called 5th gen fighter... countries tried to make similar but issues of destructive load on the wing. Vladimir Vikulin goes on about how unique it is with composites and swept back wings which no one else has. Berkut is a single copy for tech demonstration but has no future, used for T-50 development. Companies producing parts for the prototype belongs 70% to Civil Rostekhnologii Chemezov.
If not superiority to US fighters, at least parity with them. Who wil fire first is the main issue in modern combat. Stealth technology means plane should emit less heat, minimum metal, nozzles and blades of engines using composite materials.
On American prototypes F-22/F-35 composite materials widely used, more than 40%. We are sure that in the future our fighter will use just as many composites says Nikolay Vymornov, Chief technologist of NPK Kompozit.
At the scientific production company, Technologiya, has developed a new carbon fibre material that will go on 5th generation.
We have created a snap-in system that does not pop out of the metal alloys. In the West this is very expensive. Explanation of why? There must be low coefficient of heat expansion. A lightweight composite tooling corresponds to the ratio and quality of the products and makes it better says Vladimir Vikulin.
In the battle to win where one has two equal stealth, the one with the better radar system wins. "When it comes to that, the RCS of our aircraft are within 1m^2 so we can effectively deal with the situation and even win some duels" said Vladimir Zagorodnii, Chief Designer and head of NIIP.
RCS is a measure of invisibility from the magnitude of reflection from enemy radar beams. The smaller the RCS, the more difficult to detect the aricraft.
Vladimir Zagorodnii lovingly examines the pride of his team, the radar for the new fighter. There are over four thousand small receiving-transmitting elements, such technology is called AFAR - active phased array antenna.
AFAR are the eyes and ears for the airplane, the more so for the fifth generation. It differs from passive antennas so that each channel of antennas are located for the transfer of power to amplifiers says Oleg Alexeyev, deputy chief designer of NIIP.
PESA must, for scanning and tracking, has to turn to locate . The 5th generation fighter radar is motionless, looking for and accompany themselves with the goals of the rays. If spotted by the enemy, no aerobatics will help but must get out of the zone of such a radar and is extremely difficult. And in the T-50 we will install five radars, one in front and two on each side with a phased array radar and a pair of UHF in the wings. Now at the Research Instrument of Design at Tikhomirova just achieved a maintenance mode with 20-30 goals. The potential for AFAR, say developers, yet for decades to come.
F-22 blah blah
117S blah
India Cooperation, jointly sold by consortium blah
Perhaps in the future, T-50 and F-22 can fight in a training battle and see who wins. Then it becomes clear who dominates the skies.
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Quickgun Murugan
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Quickgun Murugan
New Member
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Few looks I made from Pak-Fa's existing images:
The Pencil-Work Look:
The Charcoal-Art Look:
The Oil-Paint look (for modern art lovers):
And finally, The all time classic, sexy beast look:
The Pencil-Work Look:
The Charcoal-Art Look:
The Oil-Paint look (for modern art lovers):
And finally, The all time classic, sexy beast look:
Last edited:
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- Feb 16, 2009
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Major Work Ahead On T-50 Stealth Fighter
BY : AVIATION WEEK
Russia has begun flying a stealthy fifth-generation fighter to rival the U.S. F-22, but Western analysts question whether Sukhoi can develop and deliver the aircraft by 2015 as promised.
Sukhoi’s T-50, which made its 47-min. first flight on Jan. 29 from the KnAAPO facility in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, is the prototype of the PAK FA “future front-line aircraft,” the first new-generation fighter for the Russian air force since the Su-27 Flanker entered service in 1984. India plans to co-fund development and co-produce the new aircraft.
The aircraft is clearly shaped for stealth, with the chined forward fuselage, planform edge alignment, internal weapons bays and small vertical tails. The T-50 shows resemblances to the F-22 Raptor, but also reflects its Su-27 heritage in the wide “centroplane” that blends the fuselage and wing.
Sukhoi says “the T-50 will demonstrate unprecedented small cross section in the radar, optical and infrared range owing to composites and innovative technologies applied in the fuselage, aerodynamics of the aircraft and decreased engine signature.”
U.S. analysts are impressed, but not yet panicked by the T-50. “Don’t go overboard and call it the Raptorski,” says a Washington-based official. “It is essentially a Flanker in the shape of a fifth-generation fighter at this point. It still needs supercruise engines, advanced radar and a lot more work before military planners can start saying how it’s going to compete with the F-22 or even the F-35.”
Work on the T-50 began in the early 2000s, and the fighter is somewhere between a technology demonstrator and a development aircraft. How much effort is needed to finalize the production aircraft is not clear. Sukhoi’s Su-27 was substantially redesigned from the T-10 prototype, which first flew in 1977; but despite some rough edges, the T-50 looks closer to a finished product.
The YF-22 prototype first flew in September 1990, and the first development aircraft in September 1997, but the F-22 was not declared operational until December 2005—a longer cycle time than proposed for the PAK FA. And there are only three prototypes: the T-50-0 static-test article; T-50-1, now flying; and T-50-2, which will be used for ground testing. The two YF-22s were followed by nine development F-22s.
U.S. defense analysts see a flying planform that incorporates low-observable attributes in edges and shaping that are notable for a prototype. But, they caution, the work needed to finish a stealth design is great. There is obvious use of composites in the T-50; but many areas are metal, and analysts are unclear whether this is just for the prototype, with plans for more composites in production aircraft.
Seemingly similar in size to the Su-27, which it will replace, the T-50 like the Flanker has widely separated engines. This makes the three-dimensional thrust vectoring effective in roll, as well as yaw and pitch, and provides room in the center fuselage for fore and aft weapons bays. There are side bays for short-range air-to-air missiles (AAMs) under the inboard wing sections. The centroplane also provides plenty of room for internal fuel. There are hardpoints for external stores under the inlets and wing.
Unusual design features include the small all-moving vertical stabilizers, made possible by thrust vectoring, and the movable wing leading-edge extensions. These act like foreplanes and provide the three-surface control afforded by the canard on the Su-30. The delta-wing planform, similar to the F-22’s and likewise coupled with powerful engines, will provide supercruise capability.
“It is apparent that more concern has been paid to shaping, but there are still many surface intersections and flight-test probes that will [increase the radar] signature,” says a senior U.S. Air Force officer involved in development of the F-117 and F-35. “In addition, we need to understand the mechanics of the very large inlets to determine how and if engine [radar reflection] blockage is achieved. And those wing leading-edge devices present a challenge for signature control.”
The prototype has a number of features that are not stealthy, including the infrared-search-and-track ball on the nose, the canopy frame, gaps around the inlets, and various unshielded intakes and grilles. There are no signs of any low-observable coatings and materials, but they would not be necessary for first flight, say analysts.
The T-50 was expected to fly with a pair of NPO Saturn 117S engines—a further modification of the uprated 32,000-lb.-thrust AL-31Fs installed in the new Su-35S multirole fighter. But Saturn says the T-50 flew with “completely new powerplants.” Compared to the 117S, the new powerplant has increased thrust and a digital control system adapted to T-50’s performance, says Ilya Fedorov, Saturn CEO and head of the PAK FA engine program.
But Russian Vice Premier Sergei Ivanov appeared to contradict Fedorov when he said the aircraft flew with engines from an earlier “4++” generation fighter. The question of a new engine for the PAK FA remains to be decided, he said.
“Engines are going to be one of the long poles in the tent,” says one U.S. analyst. Saturn and Salyut are developing competing 38,500-lb.-thrust engines. “The [refined supercruise] engine likely won’t be ready for several years , well beyond even initial operational capability.”
Another big question is availability of an advanced active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The PAK FA avionics suite is being developed by the Ramenskoye design bureau, with the AESA radar supplied by Tikhomorov NIIP. A full-scale antenna with 1,500 transmit/receive modules was unveiled at Moscow’s MAKS show in August. It is still in bench tests, and the prototype is likely flying without radar. The first radar for the aircraft is expected to be ready in mid-2010, but integration with the stealth fighter has yet to begun, U.S. analysts point out.
The T-50 appears to continue the Russian preference for a large weapons capacity. Although bay sizes have not been made public, near-term, beyond-visual-range weapons will be upgrades of the R-77—including the K-77-1 and K-77M developments of the basic AA-12 Adder medium-range radar-guided AAM.
Long-range AAM options for internal carriage include upgrades of the R-37M (AA-X-13). In terms of short-range missiles, the baseline may be the K-74 upgrade of the infrared-homing R-73 (AA-11 Archer), although the long-running K-30 program will likely replace the Archer.
Air-to-surface weapons could include the Kh-38M family of medium-range missiles now in development. Mockups have featured folding control surfaces for compressed internal carriage. A new version of the decades-old AS-11 Kilter, the Kh-58UShK, has also emerged with folding surfaces for compressed carriage.
The T-50 is expected to complete several more flights at KnAPPO before moving to the test center at Zhukovsky, near Moscow. Senior Russian leadership has said the first preproduction batch will be delivered to Lipetsk in 2013 for state tests; but even with the Su-35S program providing development support for the T-50, service entry in 2015 looks ambitious.
“Lipetsk will function as a sort of Nellis, sort of Edwards, sort of Eglin [USAF bases] to wring out the jet, develop some basic employment doctrine, and write the flight and weapons employment manuals,” the U.S. analyst says. “Finally, they’ll train the initial instructor-pilot cadre for the first-line unit that will receive the jet—probably 18-24 months after the first one arrives at Lipetsk.”
Whether Sukhoi can meet the timeline depends on the success of testing and the financial commitment of the Russian and, crucially, Indian governments. India is ready to invest 25% of the PAK FA’s development cost and form a 50-50 joint venture to manufacture the fighter, with a basic requirement of 250 aircraft for each partner.
A two-seat PAK FA, dubbed the T-50UB, will be the basis of an export version for the Indian air force. Hindustan Aeronautics joined the program in 2008, but Sukhoi Director General Mikhail Pogosyan says Indian designers will participate in the later stages of development.
While India can bring significant funding, it cannot supply relevant technical expertise to help Sukhoi with the challenging task of developing and integrating a low-observable, network-centric, fifth-generation fighter. How soon, and how effectively, the Russians can deploy their rival to the F-22 remains to be seen.
http://idrw.org/?p=442#more-442
BY : AVIATION WEEK
Russia has begun flying a stealthy fifth-generation fighter to rival the U.S. F-22, but Western analysts question whether Sukhoi can develop and deliver the aircraft by 2015 as promised.
Sukhoi’s T-50, which made its 47-min. first flight on Jan. 29 from the KnAAPO facility in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, is the prototype of the PAK FA “future front-line aircraft,” the first new-generation fighter for the Russian air force since the Su-27 Flanker entered service in 1984. India plans to co-fund development and co-produce the new aircraft.
The aircraft is clearly shaped for stealth, with the chined forward fuselage, planform edge alignment, internal weapons bays and small vertical tails. The T-50 shows resemblances to the F-22 Raptor, but also reflects its Su-27 heritage in the wide “centroplane” that blends the fuselage and wing.
Sukhoi says “the T-50 will demonstrate unprecedented small cross section in the radar, optical and infrared range owing to composites and innovative technologies applied in the fuselage, aerodynamics of the aircraft and decreased engine signature.”
U.S. analysts are impressed, but not yet panicked by the T-50. “Don’t go overboard and call it the Raptorski,” says a Washington-based official. “It is essentially a Flanker in the shape of a fifth-generation fighter at this point. It still needs supercruise engines, advanced radar and a lot more work before military planners can start saying how it’s going to compete with the F-22 or even the F-35.”
Work on the T-50 began in the early 2000s, and the fighter is somewhere between a technology demonstrator and a development aircraft. How much effort is needed to finalize the production aircraft is not clear. Sukhoi’s Su-27 was substantially redesigned from the T-10 prototype, which first flew in 1977; but despite some rough edges, the T-50 looks closer to a finished product.
The YF-22 prototype first flew in September 1990, and the first development aircraft in September 1997, but the F-22 was not declared operational until December 2005—a longer cycle time than proposed for the PAK FA. And there are only three prototypes: the T-50-0 static-test article; T-50-1, now flying; and T-50-2, which will be used for ground testing. The two YF-22s were followed by nine development F-22s.
U.S. defense analysts see a flying planform that incorporates low-observable attributes in edges and shaping that are notable for a prototype. But, they caution, the work needed to finish a stealth design is great. There is obvious use of composites in the T-50; but many areas are metal, and analysts are unclear whether this is just for the prototype, with plans for more composites in production aircraft.
Seemingly similar in size to the Su-27, which it will replace, the T-50 like the Flanker has widely separated engines. This makes the three-dimensional thrust vectoring effective in roll, as well as yaw and pitch, and provides room in the center fuselage for fore and aft weapons bays. There are side bays for short-range air-to-air missiles (AAMs) under the inboard wing sections. The centroplane also provides plenty of room for internal fuel. There are hardpoints for external stores under the inlets and wing.
Unusual design features include the small all-moving vertical stabilizers, made possible by thrust vectoring, and the movable wing leading-edge extensions. These act like foreplanes and provide the three-surface control afforded by the canard on the Su-30. The delta-wing planform, similar to the F-22’s and likewise coupled with powerful engines, will provide supercruise capability.
“It is apparent that more concern has been paid to shaping, but there are still many surface intersections and flight-test probes that will [increase the radar] signature,” says a senior U.S. Air Force officer involved in development of the F-117 and F-35. “In addition, we need to understand the mechanics of the very large inlets to determine how and if engine [radar reflection] blockage is achieved. And those wing leading-edge devices present a challenge for signature control.”
The prototype has a number of features that are not stealthy, including the infrared-search-and-track ball on the nose, the canopy frame, gaps around the inlets, and various unshielded intakes and grilles. There are no signs of any low-observable coatings and materials, but they would not be necessary for first flight, say analysts.
The T-50 was expected to fly with a pair of NPO Saturn 117S engines—a further modification of the uprated 32,000-lb.-thrust AL-31Fs installed in the new Su-35S multirole fighter. But Saturn says the T-50 flew with “completely new powerplants.” Compared to the 117S, the new powerplant has increased thrust and a digital control system adapted to T-50’s performance, says Ilya Fedorov, Saturn CEO and head of the PAK FA engine program.
But Russian Vice Premier Sergei Ivanov appeared to contradict Fedorov when he said the aircraft flew with engines from an earlier “4++” generation fighter. The question of a new engine for the PAK FA remains to be decided, he said.
“Engines are going to be one of the long poles in the tent,” says one U.S. analyst. Saturn and Salyut are developing competing 38,500-lb.-thrust engines. “The [refined supercruise] engine likely won’t be ready for several years , well beyond even initial operational capability.”
Another big question is availability of an advanced active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The PAK FA avionics suite is being developed by the Ramenskoye design bureau, with the AESA radar supplied by Tikhomorov NIIP. A full-scale antenna with 1,500 transmit/receive modules was unveiled at Moscow’s MAKS show in August. It is still in bench tests, and the prototype is likely flying without radar. The first radar for the aircraft is expected to be ready in mid-2010, but integration with the stealth fighter has yet to begun, U.S. analysts point out.
The T-50 appears to continue the Russian preference for a large weapons capacity. Although bay sizes have not been made public, near-term, beyond-visual-range weapons will be upgrades of the R-77—including the K-77-1 and K-77M developments of the basic AA-12 Adder medium-range radar-guided AAM.
Long-range AAM options for internal carriage include upgrades of the R-37M (AA-X-13). In terms of short-range missiles, the baseline may be the K-74 upgrade of the infrared-homing R-73 (AA-11 Archer), although the long-running K-30 program will likely replace the Archer.
Air-to-surface weapons could include the Kh-38M family of medium-range missiles now in development. Mockups have featured folding control surfaces for compressed internal carriage. A new version of the decades-old AS-11 Kilter, the Kh-58UShK, has also emerged with folding surfaces for compressed carriage.
The T-50 is expected to complete several more flights at KnAPPO before moving to the test center at Zhukovsky, near Moscow. Senior Russian leadership has said the first preproduction batch will be delivered to Lipetsk in 2013 for state tests; but even with the Su-35S program providing development support for the T-50, service entry in 2015 looks ambitious.
“Lipetsk will function as a sort of Nellis, sort of Edwards, sort of Eglin [USAF bases] to wring out the jet, develop some basic employment doctrine, and write the flight and weapons employment manuals,” the U.S. analyst says. “Finally, they’ll train the initial instructor-pilot cadre for the first-line unit that will receive the jet—probably 18-24 months after the first one arrives at Lipetsk.”
Whether Sukhoi can meet the timeline depends on the success of testing and the financial commitment of the Russian and, crucially, Indian governments. India is ready to invest 25% of the PAK FA’s development cost and form a 50-50 joint venture to manufacture the fighter, with a basic requirement of 250 aircraft for each partner.
A two-seat PAK FA, dubbed the T-50UB, will be the basis of an export version for the Indian air force. Hindustan Aeronautics joined the program in 2008, but Sukhoi Director General Mikhail Pogosyan says Indian designers will participate in the later stages of development.
While India can bring significant funding, it cannot supply relevant technical expertise to help Sukhoi with the challenging task of developing and integrating a low-observable, network-centric, fifth-generation fighter. How soon, and how effectively, the Russians can deploy their rival to the F-22 remains to be seen.
http://idrw.org/?p=442#more-442
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If Russia wants to get an operational plane by 2015, the new engines will have to be scrapped for a later date. Whatever heat signature reducing systems they planned for it should be incorporated on the 117S. The first tranche will also have to scrap the L-band AESA since its development is nowhere near the planar array. They should be able to clean up the surfaces for a stealthier signature, but it remains to be seen whether they "get it" or not. Weapons configuration will have to stick with the current generation due to all the delays for even the Su-34 getting weapons certified. The timetable is really too ambitious even for a defence complex like America to meet. Russia is going to have to compromise if they want PAK FA on time. It will still have supercruise, AESA, thrust vector, and marginal stealth... but it won't be what they hoped until a second or even third tranche. Cutting the ambition will also lower costs to keep it in the $100 million target range.
