Sukhoi PAK FA

[Kunal Biswas]

If they still have not even passed the no rivet stage and they produce the FGFA for display then what exactly is there to test in it? All the engines and structures the Russians are already sure about. This is just to show us that they are making it and does not even prove the aircraft is stealthy. It is no where near stealthy.

@Godless-Kafir,
The media do not mentioned abt what Prototype on our Ex-Chief sat on, It is known that our pilots did flew T-50-1, T-50-2 flew and tests are still going on, At-Least 5 prototypes are important to make a safe and reliable aircraft it takes time and we have time for FGFA, Regarding stealth its complicated, Present prototype does not show much zig-zag around bays and cockpit but it will be on later variants..

 

[p2prada]

Notice the rivets on the cockpit, when Americans talk of stealth they make it clear about the no riveting and no use of metals on the surface area. I am really skeptical about corrupt and manipulating defence industry in Russia.

Even the F-22 has rivets. A new skin is placed over the main body to achieve VLO characteristics. The PAKFA is yet to be painted with the actual RAM coating.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

"Izdeliye 127" ( 17,500-18,000kgf?) engine is intended to be ready to power the "second stage" T-50

Журнал Взлёт : 3/2010 март

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Even the F-22 has rivets. A new skin is placed over the main body to achieve VLO characteristics. The PAKFA is yet to be painted with the actual RAM coating.

The rivets are not exposed on the Raptor, while the Russian have not still understood how to hide them from radar, there are no zig zag designs on the bays to evade radar. More over the Pak-Fa does not even have an bubble glass cockpit that the J-20 has. The Pak-Fa is even behind China and 10 to 15years from materialization. This is not even an 4.5gen aircraft yet.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

@Godless-Kafir,
The media do not mentioned abt what Prototype on our Ex-Chief sat on, It is known that our pilots did flew T-50-1, T-50-2 flew and tests are still going on, At-Least 5 prototypes are important to make a safe and reliable aircraft it takes time and we have time for FGFA, Regarding stealth its complicated, Present prototype does not show much zig-zag around bays and cockpit but it will be on later variants..

Thats my point Kunal, this is not an Prototype. This is an way to fool Indians into aiding an Russian defense program and spindle our money. The current T-50 is not even 4th gen. This is a model thats all.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

while the Russian have not still understood how to hide them from radar, there are no zig zag designs on the bays to evade radar. More over the Pak-Fa does not even have an bubble glass cockpit that the J-20 has. The Pak-Fa is even behind China and 10 to 15years from materialization. This is not even an 4.5gen aircraft yet.

It takes time, They are working, Present T-50-1 is known for Aerodynamic study and Avionics & Engine Inputs, T-50-2 is for further improvement over previous deign, It will also have newer radar for further test, And their will be more improved version will be coming out each one will be refined version of the previous one..

And don't fall for CHICOM Propaganda, The had to show that they too can make fighter even a copied one and they did.. End of the story..

This is an way to fool Indians into aiding an Russian defense program and spindle our money. The current T-50 is not even 4th gen. This is a model thats all.

We are not fools..

We would never get into such mess, The people involve know what they are doing..

The dead line is 2015-17 for FGFA, till then we can only observe the progress and discuss, Today is 2011, Its a long way to go..

 

[ptldM3]

Notice the rivets on the cockpit, when Americans talk of stealth they make it clear about the no riveting and no use of metals on the surface area. I am really skeptical about corrupt and manipulating defence industry in Russia.

When will people learn, the T-50-1 is an aerodynamics prototype. The pak-fa is fitted with test equipment such as antennas to measure basics performance, so the question is why would Sukhoi ever bother covering up rivets on an aerodynamics testbed? It would not only be counter productive but stupid.

And the F-22 has no metal on the surface? the only problem with that claim is that it is false.

The rivets are not exposed on the Raptor, while the Russian have not still understood how to hide them from radar,

Yes, because it is difficult to cover rivets with film and apply primer.

there are no zig zag designs on the bays to evade radar.

There are. The second prototype had more serated edges than the first, obviously a progression that can be expected on later prototypes. Further, the engineers at Sukhoi understand 'zig zags' very well, infact those sig zags or serrated edges are seen all over the aircraft, most internet fanboys either fail to understand or overlook the serrated edges in the entire aircraft's design , as a whole. The pak-fa incorporates many 'sig zags' in the wing gerometry. Notice that there are no conventional strait edges, instead the aircraft has serrated edges in order to reduce, redirect, or eliminate edge diffraction, and or corner diffraction.

More over the Pak-Fa does not even have an bubble glass cockpit that the J-20 has. .

Not this 'bubble canopy' nonesense, i'm sure F-117, B-2 and Silent Eagle also have those bubble canopies right? Or that Russia can not mold or infuse a one peice canopy? Or even obtain one from a third party outside of the country? Or that somehow the 'metal is not good for stealth"? I

The Pak-Fa is even behind China and 10 to 15years from materialization. This is not even an 4.5gen aircraft yet.

So when China's J-20 is completed around 2017 to 2019 the pak-fa will only be ready around 2027-2034?

 

[Crusader53]

Nonetheless, the PAK-FA is not going to match either the F-22 and/or F-35 in RCS. That said, what is more important is how the PAK-FA will compare to the PLAAF J-20???

 

[p2prada]

The rivets are not exposed on the Raptor, while the Russian have not still understood how to hide them from radar, there are no zig zag designs on the bays to evade radar. More over the Pak-Fa does not even have an bubble glass cockpit that the J-20 has. The Pak-Fa is even behind China and 10 to 15years from materialization. This is not even an 4.5gen aircraft yet.

Rivets are covered with a jacket on the F-22. The PAKFA is a prototype and will have an external jacket as well.

Zig zag designs are great when you tell that to a six year old. The actual term is saw tooth edges. PAKFA has them.

A one piece bubble glass cockpit isn't a requirement for stealth.

The PAKFA is well ahead of the J-20 and will be a superior aircraft when it is ready.

 

[p2prada]

Nonetheless, the PAK-FA is not going to match either the F-22 and/or F-35 in RCS.

F-22 maybe not, F-35 why not? The PAKFA claims all aspect stealth once ready. The F-35 does not claim the same. Then there is the question of affordability for all 3 aircraft where PAKFA is supposed to top the list.

That said, what is more important is how the PAK-FA will compare to the PLAAF J-20???

And also how the F-35 compares to PAKFA and J-20. You cannot keep yourself out of the loop, right?

The possibility of the Japanese dumping the F-35 for SH or F-15SE is high.

 

[mki]

hello guys....

i have one query.

I have seen many photos of PakFa but i am wondering its engines looks open as our Su30s. isnt that compromise lot of stealth?

thnks

 

[gogbot]

hello guys....

i have one query.

I have seen many photos of PakFa but i am wondering its engines looks open as our Su30s. isnt that compromise lot of stealth?

thnks

It is a stealth compromise one that has been considered by Sukhoi.
The current aircraft are prototypes , not production models.

sukhoi can do one of two things with rear aspect stealth ,

They can use flat nozzles like on the F-22 , or

they can go the F-35 route and and try to minimize the exposure as much as possible , but it will not be as effective.

The Pak-fa is not designed to provide uncompromising stealth like on the F-22 , sukhoi has different design policy than Lockheed Martin. They want to find the balance between aero-dynamics and Stealth , they have chosen to compromise stealth for aero-dynamics on number of area's.

 

[Crusader53]

F-22 maybe not, F-35 why not? The PAKFA claims all aspect stealth once ready. The F-35 does not claim the same. Then there is the question of affordability for all 3 aircraft where PAKFA is supposed to top the list.

The US has many "decades" of Experience in Stealth and the same cannot be said of Russia. Plus, the F-35 Program has built on the success of the F-22 Program. Which, is the current leader in Stealth Technology. As a matter of fact the Stealth Coating of the F-35 are being added to the F-22. As they are said to be superior. All that said from the numbers being floated by Sukhoi for the PAK-FA. The F-22 and F-35 have little to worry about........

Nonetheless, you don't have to take my word for it. As most of the Leading Aviation Expert agree both Lockheed 5th Generation Stealth Fighters. Will "likey" have marketly superior RCS than the PAK-FA. (and J-20)

As for price I wouldn't be at all surprised if the PAK-FA/FGFA cost more than the F-35A and maybe even the B or C. With many sources already claiming the PAK-FA will cost up wards of 100 Million Per Copy! What we do know for sure is the F-35 will be vastly cheaper to own and operate without question.

And also how the F-35 compares to PAKFA and J-20. You cannot keep yourself out of the loop, right?

The F-35 will be able to handle both the PAK-FA and J-20 with ease.....Superior Stealth, Avonics, Situational Awareness, Weapons, etc. etc. etc.

The possibility of the Japanese dumping the F-35 for SH or F-15SE is high.

In your dreams...........The F-35 is the only counter to either the PAK-FA or J-20 for Japan. Plus, it always buys American Fighters and I see nothing that suggest it will change that.

 

[p2prada]

The US has many "decades" of Experience in Stealth and the same cannot be said of Russia. Plus, the F-35 Program has built on the success of the F-22 Program. Which, is the current leader in Stealth Technology. As a matter of fact the Stealth Coating of the F-35 are being added to the F-22. As they are said to be superior. All that said from the numbers being floated by Sukhoi for the PAK-FA. The F-22 and F-35 have little to worry about........

Sukhoi never quoted anything for the PAKFA. They have agreed that the airframe stealth for the PAKFA will be lesser than the F-22. But what if this mythical plasma stealth turns out to be true? Lot of ifs and buts until we see the final production model.

The F-35's RCS is still more than the F-22s by a huge margin even if she has a better paint job. The F-35 isn't all aspect stealth either.

Nonetheless, you don't have to take my word for it. As most of the Leading Aviation Expert agree both Lockheed 5th Generation Stealth Fighters. Will "likey" have marketly superior RCS than the PAK-FA. (and J-20)

You have it the other way around. If the F-22 and F-35 have "superior" RCS, then the PAKFA is the better plane. RCS needs to be inferior.

As for price I wouldn't be at all surprised if the PAK-FA/FGFA cost more than the F-35A and maybe even the B or C. With many sources already claiming the PAK-FA will cost up wards of 100 Million Per Copy! What we do know for sure is the F-35 will be vastly cheaper to own and operate without question.

The MKI costs $45Million apiece and Su-35BM is expected to cost $60Million fly away. The PAKFA is expected to cost $100Million in today's prices which would be accurate considering the PAKFA program is ahead of schedule unlike the F-35 where final costs haven't even been decided.

Also, let's not forget the PAKFA and it's superior cousin FGFA will have full multirole capabilities at a far superior range(twice) which is currently lacking in the F-22As. So, more bang for the buck.

 

[badguy2000]

The US has many "decades" of Experience in Stealth and the same cannot be said of Russia. Plus, the F-35 Program has built on the success of the F-22 Program. Which, is the current leader in Stealth Technology. As a matter of fact the Stealth Coating of the F-35 are being added to the F-22. As they are said to be superior. All that said from the numbers being floated by Sukhoi for the PAK-FA. The F-22 and F-35 have little to worry about........

Nonetheless, you don't have to take my word for it. As most of the Leading Aviation Expert agree both Lockheed 5th Generation Stealth Fighters. Will "likey" have marketly superior RCS than the PAK-FA. (and J-20)

As for price I wouldn't be at all surprised if the PAK-FA/FGFA cost more than the F-35A and maybe even the B or C. With many sources already claiming the PAK-FA will cost up wards of 100 Million Per Copy! What we do know for sure is the F-35 will be vastly cheaper to own and operate without question.





The F-35 will be able to handle both the PAK-FA and J-20 with ease.....Superior Stealth, Avonics, Situational Awareness, Weapons, etc. etc. etc.





In your dreams...........The F-35 is the only counter to either the PAK-FA or J-20 for Japan. Plus, it always buys American Fighters and I see nothing that suggest it will change that.

F35 is a big failure,with extreme poor costperformance.....it uses lots of tech more advanced than F22 and cost almost as same as F22....but the poor designing concept and tech integration make F35's performance much poorer than F22.....

F22 is a formidable bird while F35 is just a big white elephant.

Frankly speaking,F35 would be even asskicked by F15 SE,as for costperformance.

 

[gogbot]

F35 is a big failure,with extreme poor costperformance.....it uses lots of tech more advanced than F22 and cost almost as same as F22....but the poor designing concept and tech integration make F35's performance much poorer than F22.....

F22 is a formidable bird while F35 is just a big white elephant.

Frankly speaking,F35 would be even asskicked by F15 SE,as for costperformance.

I agree , the F-35 is very poor in terms of cost performance.

Which will inevitably mean the air-force can never field as many as necessary , it will be sink hole for budgets world wide.
Pilots may only get less training as a result.

 

[Anshu Attri]

 

[mattster]

@Badguy...

WTF.....do you know about the cost-performance ratio of the F-35 - it is barely starting its production with Flight testing still going on.

You guys really think that Lockheed is going to deliver a lemon to the USAF and the USN and the marines for over estimated $130 mil a piece.

And if Lockheed which has more stealth and 5th gen technologies experience than other fighter manufacturer in the world cant do it
- then who the hell is.

The Chinese with their clownish looking J-20 that looks like a front F-22 married to a transport plane(its freaking large) - are they going to create a 5th gen stealth plane for under 100 mil. These are the same guys who have been developing their own engine for 40 years now. but still somehow mysteriously have to buy Russian engines for the J-10.

Or are the Russians going to deliver a PAKFA at half the cost of the F-35. When PAKFA starts rolling off the assembly line, then lets talk about prices. Knowing the Russians - that number they quote today could change 3X by the time the plane rolls off the line.

 

[Armand2REP]

WTF.....do you know about the cost-performance ratio of the F-35 - it is barely starting its production with Flight testing still going on.

You guys really think that Lockheed is going to deliver a lemon to the USAF and the USN and the marines for over estimated $130 mil a piece.

There are some 50 aircraft already built. The first full production version has been delivered. How many more need to be made before costs go down? 50 is more than a first lot for most other aircraft.

And if Lockheed which has more stealth and 5th gen technologies experience than other fighter manufacturer in the world cant do it
- then who the hell is.

There isn't anything special about LockMart except a bloated bureaucracy that can't keep costs down.