Sukhoi PAK FA

ace009

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Latest aircraft for IAF in Gujarat


Latest aircraft for IAF in Gujarat | idrw.org

Five important airbases of Indian Air Force (IAF) in Gujarat will be equipped with fifth generation aircrafts as well as other latest technology and gadgets by 2014, said Air Chief Marshal PV Naik in Gandhinagar on Thursday.Naik also said that the IAF was ready to tackle any adverse situation. "IAF has many developments pending and the government will be purchasing the latest gadgets, technology as well as aircrafts to strengthen the force," he said. Ahmedabad, Nalia, Bhuj, Jamnagar and Vadodara are the five airbases in state.

Naik, who is on a three-day visit to Gujarat, also said that IAF was capable of dealing with security threats arising out of the recent developments in Pakistan.

Naik also said the entire region of South Asia seems to be caught in a maze of security challenges following the killing of Osama Bin Laden and the subsequent terror attack on Mehran Naval airbase in Pakistan. These incidents were likely to have major implications on India.

"Mehran attack is not something that will change our plans. Our plans have already been in place since the last five years," he said, when asked about IAF's preparedness to deal with similar situations.

"IAF is emerging as a strategic aerospace force, and is fully capable of facing any challenge that it is posed with. Our preparedness levels are at the desired level to thwart any nefarious threats," he said.

Naik said that security of IAF airbases was very vital, because its assets were based at those bases. In view of this, IAF had embarked on a major modernisation plan, he said.

"Over the last five years, the IAF has gone about increasing the physical security of the bases, things like boundary walls, controlling the entry-exit points, monitoring," he said.
There is something wrong in this report - the AMCA / FGFA is still in design mode, and the PAK-FA (T-50) is under testing, IAF will not have ANY 5th generation aircraft before 2018 (more like after 2020) - so how can these bases have 5th gen fighters by 2014?
 

ace009

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That said, the F-35's cost escalation hasn't even been revealed as of today. Most countries have decided not to induct even the prototypes due to cost issues. Everything in the US has had massive cost escalations.

Also I cannot reply to your post properly if you cannot use the quote option.

However the Global security link you gave does indicate the F-22 is still 10 times stealthy than the F-35. 0.0001 is 5-10 times smaller than 0.0015. The part that you have underlined is false. The F-22 is and will have the smallest RCS in the game for the forseeable future. The report about marble and golf ball difference came directly from the USAF. The so called "other reports" are from dodgy analysts with less credible info than the US Department of Defense. USAF has openly said the F-35 is nowhere as stealthy as the F-22 from any angle.

The PAKFA is all aspect stealth. Flat Nozzles are being developed as we speak along with IR signature management as well as RCS reduction. An aircraft like MKI which is claimed to have a RCS of 10m2 was reduced to 1-2m2 on the Su-35BM. That is a remarkable achievement by itself.

It's open source information, the F-22 is much more draggy than the F-15. That's why the combat radius of the F-22 is half that of the F-15 on internal fuel even though the F-15 carries only 6.2 tons of fuel as compared to F-22's 8.2 tons.

Cost of operations are significantly different from cost for procurement. Procurement will be much higher for the F-35 because the avionics it carries makes the F-22 look like a bullock cart. The engine, power packs, radar, comm system, navigation, ECCM etc are all many years ahead of the F-22 and may end up costing as much as the entire aircraft itself, meaning the avionics will cost at least half that of the airframe. Operating such expensive avionics and equivalent upgrades will also cost a bomb in the long run.
For all of you, please post links to the sources for credibility ...
 

Crusader53

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That said, the F-35's cost escalation hasn't even been revealed as of today. Most countries have decided not to induct even the prototypes due to cost issues. Everything in the US has had massive cost escalations.

Also I cannot reply to your post properly if you cannot use the quote option.

However the Global security link you gave does indicate the F-22 is still 10 times stealthy than the F-35. 0.0001 is 5-10 times smaller than 0.0015. The part that you have underlined is false. The F-22 is and will have the smallest RCS in the game for the forseeable future. The report about marble and golf ball difference came directly from the USAF. The so called "other reports" are from dodgy analysts with less credible info than the US Department of Defense. USAF has openly said the F-35 is nowhere as stealthy as the F-22 from any angle.

The PAKFA is all aspect stealth. Flat Nozzles are being developed as we speak along with IR signature management as well as RCS reduction. An aircraft like MKI which is claimed to have a RCS of 10m2 was reduced to 1-2m2 on the Su-35BM. That is a remarkable achievement by itself.

It's open source information, the F-22 is much more draggy than the F-15. That's why the combat radius of the F-22 is half that of the F-15 on internal fuel even though the F-15 carries only 6.2 tons of fuel as compared to F-22's 8.2 tons.

Cost of operations are significantly different from cost for procurement. Procurement will be much higher for the F-35 because the avionics it carries makes the F-22 look like a bullock cart. The engine, power packs, radar, comm system, navigation, ECCM etc are all many years ahead of the F-22 and may end up costing as much as the entire aircraft itself, meaning the avionics will cost at least half that of the airframe. Operating such expensive avionics and equivalent upgrades will also cost a bomb in the long run.
Let's see a source that states the F-22 is much more draggy (your words) than a F-15.....LOL
 

jstcvw09cd

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From PAK-FA's lead test pilot, the internal fuel of T-50 is more than that Su-27, even with a smaller dimension, this confirms pak-fa's long flight range and fighting radius at supercruising.........?
 

Crusader53

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From PAK-FA's lead test pilot, the internal fuel of T-50 is more than that Su-27, even with a smaller dimension, this confirms pak-fa's long flight range and fighting radius at supercruising.........?
That depends on the engines. Which are still in development.
 

p2prada

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Let's see a source that states the F-22 is much more draggy (your words) than a F-15.....LOL
The F-22 has higher wing loading than the F-15. The F-15's empty weight is lower. Then the F-15 has a better fuselage design compared to the F-22 for beating drag during supersonic flight.

The F-22 had two choices, less drag and less stealth at the expense of less payload or more drag with more stealth and bigger payload as compared to the F-15. It's is obvious the direction the F-22 took.
 

Anshu Attri

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At the airport LII. Gromov presentation of the PAK FA to the delegation of India Ministry of Defence

ЦАМТО / Новости / На аэродроме ЛИИ им. М. М. Громова состоялась презентация ПАК ФА для делегации Минобороны Индии

TSAMTO, June 14. At the airport LII. Gromov in Zhukovsky near Moscow today hosted a presentation and flight demonstration of promising air complex tactical aircraft (PAK FA) of the Indian delegation headed by the Secretary for Defence Production - Deputy Defence Minister of India RK Singh.

On the Russian side the event was attended by President of the United Aircraft Corporation, General Director of Sukhoi and MiG, "Mikhail Pogosyan, the press service of the Sukhoi.

Earlier, in late May of this year, with the aircraft commander of the Indian Air Force got to know Pradeep Vasant Naik (Pradeep Vasant Naik) and his entourage.

Russian-Indian program to develop advanced, multi-purpose fighter - the largest project in the field of military technical cooperation between the two countries. Work for its implementation shall be based on a signed 18 October 2007 in Moscow at the 7 th session of the Russian-Indian intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation agreement between the Government of the Russian Federation and the Government of the Republic of India on cooperation in the development and production of promising multipurpose fighter.

In December 2010 during the visit of Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to India by Rosoboronexport, the company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Sukhoi signed a contract to develop a sketch and technical project aircraft. This is the first of a series of documents governing the obligations of the parties at different stages of the program.

multipurpose aircraft will be developed on the basis of the Indian delegation presented today PAK FA, which has successfully test is carried out by Sukhoi. Two prototypes have made about 70 flights.
 

bhramos

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At present there are MiG-21s stationed at Vadodara, so you can't call it a non-fighter base, and regarding the excitement about able to spot a FGFA somewhere down the timeline, i was just responding to the post above my post which stated that Gujarat was going to get 5th Gen fighters at its bases, just that.
ya you are right. MiG-21Bison is already are Stealth fighters, with Israeli jammers they had blocked F-15 in an Exercise, and could easily block any fighter.....
 

Parthy

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Russia carries out demonstration flight of FGFA

Russia on Wednesday carried out a crucial demonstration flight of the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) to be developed jointly with India as New Delhi seeks to extend its strategic reach.

The demonstration flight was watched by secretary defence production RK Singh, who is on a four-day Russia visit as part of an Indian delegation led by defence secretary Pradeep Kumar to review the progress in bilateral defence projects.

According to the inter-governmental agreement signed in October 2007, India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Russia's Sukhoi Corporation will jointly develop the futuristic platform under the FGFA project, to be initially based on Sukhoi's Perspective Aviation Complex of Frontline Aviation (PAK-FA).

The FGFA project will be the biggest ever in the bilateral Indo-Russian defence cooperation, Sukhoi said in a release.

At the Zhukovsky airfield of the MM Gromov Flight Research Institute near here the prototype of the Russian PAK-FA fifth generation fighter was presented to Singh by the CEO of Sukhoi and MiG Corporations Mikhail Pogosyan.

Last month, air chief, Air Chief Marshal PV Naik had also watched a demonstration flight of one of the two prototypes of the fighter, which have already made over 70 test flights.




Russia carries out demonstration flight of FGFA - Brahmand.com
 

ace009

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Russia carries out demonstration flight of FGFA

Russia on Wednesday carried out a crucial demonstration flight of the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) to be developed jointly with India as New Delhi seeks to extend its strategic reach.


Russia carries out demonstration flight of FGFA - Brahmand.com
I guess he meant the PAK-FA (or T-50). FGFA is the Indian version with two seats (instead of 1 seat for the PAK-FA, the Russian version). As far as I know, FGFA is still in the drawing boards and no prototype will be built before 2014-15. Let me know if I am mistaken or if the author is in error.
 

ace009

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I would be most interested to know the status of the stealth features in the PAK-FA and the AESA radar. Also, the status of the engine and it's ability to do supercruise would be interesting to know. Can anyone post some links to these info?
 

Anshu Attri

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I would be most interested to know the status of the stealth features in the PAK-FA and the AESA radar. Also, the status of the engine and it's ability to do supercruise would be interesting to know. Can anyone post some links to these info?
about engine.....

New interview with Al-41F chief designer

Defunct Humanity: New interview with Al-41F chief designer

In Russian Parliament sponsored 'Russia Today' journal (May, 2011) a new interview with Victor Chepkin was published. He first time reported about the difference between 'izdelie-117S' and 'izdelie-117' engines for new fighters. Then he didnt give interviews almost 3 years.

Chepkin Victor M. - is the doctor of technical sciences, professor, General Designer, the first deputy general director of NPO Saturn, on research and development projects, advisor to the Director of Lulka design buraue.

After graduating the Moscow Aviation Institute in 1957, he was sent to the Perm Motors design Bureau , where he worked as a design engineer and latter - the chief designer. He was the chief designer of the outstanding improvement on their engine, "D-30F6" for the world's fastest fighter-interceptor MiG-31 ". In 1980 Viktor Mikhailovich worked as Deputy Minister of Aviation Industry of the USSR.

Under his leadership, design , finishing work and conducted official testing of turbojet engine "AL-31F was successfully completed . Victor M. spearheaded the creation of a turbojet engine of the fifth generation, AL 41F and modernization of the AL-31F.

I have translated only those parts of the interview which are relevant to PAK FA issue.

Q - Since United Engine Corporation been formed , 5 th generation Fighter T-50 " climbed into the sky and is undergoing flight tests , the first Superjet already been transferred to commercial airlines ... What in your opinion the most important changes occurred in the Russian aviation industry during this period (3 years) that we acquired, and what can be lost?

A - The main thing in my opinion, is that joint efforts succeeded in stopping the fall of the industry. This required the efforts of many, first and foremost, I would note Mikhail Pogosyan and Eugene Marchukov - the General Designer of the engine for the T-50.

For military aircraft, we have created two engines - one for the aircraft, like Su-35 ", the second - for the Russian aircraft 5 th generation of T-50". The first - is "117C" - is mainly intended for export. He is more simple in terms of aerodynamics, and most importantly - targeted for aircraft with conventional arms, suspended on pylons outside the fuselage, with no strong constraints on dimensions. Such schemes fro example are used on 4-th generation aircrafts , exported to India and Malaysia.

The second engine - is "117" - though only differ by one letter in the title, much more advanced engine - this is a real engine of the 5-th generation. From the rivals can sometimes be heard the 5-th generation engine should be with such a blade, such and such materials, high-speed rotors, and you do not have this ... None of this is all just ways of achieving the goal. A single goal - increasing specific thrust, ie the ratio of thrust to its weight. For example, the first jet engine Arkhip Mikhailovich Lulka weighed 1350 kg and had the same thrust, that is, its specific thrust is equal to 1. The 4 th generation engine , "AL-31F, has already managed to achieve specific thrust of 8.7, and on a 5 th generation, the figure is 10.

The new engine delivers a supersonic speed without afterburner mode. What it gives? If before the fighter was flying to the target with the speed of 700 km / h, now - it is twice as fast.

Our "117" today is already flying on two T-50s. For the company it is quite a major achievement, a large move forward. Although it never was easy. We also have new ideas, we can boast some good groundwork. What is needed in the field of military aviation - the beginning of this mass production? To protect such a large country like ours, from a serious attack the number as 500-1000 aircrafts is needed . For this needed orders, money, production infrastructure.

Q - What are the new challenges encountered when creating the plane 5 th generation?

A - There are thousand problems to solve . Say, for reducing the radar visibility "T-50 has a scheme with an internal arrangement of weapons, so is becoming increasingly important problem of reducing its size. And that means new weaponry has to be developed and put into service , but since it has low volume, it must be highly accurate. It is therefore necessarily need a fully functional GLONASS. The American GPS, for obvious reasons is not suitable, since in times of crisis they will disable it, like during the Ossetian-Georgian war, would impose an artificial shift in the coordinates of 300 km. Also is needed to be known exactly, how do you shoot, so should be a modern mapping system. The missile itself should be stealthy . Such weapons are now manufactured, and all this affects the design of the engine. The work is proceeding according to plans ... In general, in my opinion, the plane turns out good, no worse than the American "F-22".


Q - By the way, if we compare the T-50 "with the" F-22 ", Western sources say that the T-50" is much behind in infrared engine visibility in the rear hemisphere.

A - We're working very intensely, to reduce the infrared and radar visibility, and were twice as better performance in comparison with the "F-22" (at least for those data that are published and which I have).


Q - In the difficult years for the Russian aircraft industry, aircraft building companies that produced military aircraft survived by exports, especially in China and India. Today, the Chinese have copied our Su-27 "and are ready to sell it on world markets at dumping prices. Not whether as a result we lose our traditional markets of combat aircraft?

A - We dont, because such an aircraft as we have, the Chinese have no and will have no in visible prospective. They say that they have made a 5-th generation plane, but one can say anything ... Their best engine was copied from our "AL-31F. And we produce 5-th generation engines , and they are in all of their parameters of thrust, specific fuel consumption correspond to the 5-th generation. I opened the secret and say that we actually already have two 5-th generation engines. The second, which is now conventionally called the "Type 30", has already been tested in flight on the fighter T-50 ". In the future it probably will give the name of "AL-...." According to its parameters it a 15-25 percent better than "117 th".

Q - You can hear that the 5 th generation engine of a plane is not as important as its electronic filling ...

A - If you compare the share of the motor and electronics to provide the functionality of combat fighter, then I, as you know, though being a minder and a patriot of the industry, yet I must admit that electronics "weighs" is much higher. Without a doubt. That's why a little better, or slightly worse engine - has no special meaning. But, if the engine parameters are much better, as we have done on the "117" (25 percent), the performance characteristics can be seriously improved, even due to increasing the allowed weight of the aircraft.


1) 117 and 117S are different engines. 117 is more advanced

2) from Chepkin words 117 = 25% better than AL-31FP. So, about 15,625 kgf thrust

3) Type 30, (Not 117S nor 117) which is 15-25% better than Type 117
 

Crusader53

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The F-22 has higher wing loading than the F-15. The F-15's empty weight is lower. Then the F-15 has a better fuselage design compared to the F-22 for beating drag during supersonic flight.

The F-22 had two choices, less drag and less stealth at the expense of less payload or more drag with more stealth and bigger payload as compared to the F-15. It's is obvious the direction the F-22 took.
That is your opinion and hardly supported by fact......
 

gogbot

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That is your opinion and hardly supported by fact......
The F-15 did land on one wing ,


Reasoning behind it being able to do that was , due to its fuselage being more stable in Supersonic flight
 
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ace009

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The F-15 did land on one wing ,


Reasoning behind it being able to do that was , due to its fuselage being more stable in Supersonic flight
Fuselage being more stable in supersonic flight hardly has any effect in landing - landing is low speed and has more to do with maintaining stability while dumping speed rapidly. Survivability of the aircraft with a damaged wing WHILE in supersonic flight can be a function of stable fuselage. I would like to know if there are actual studies published on the relative stability / drag/ stealth features of the F-22 vs F-15.
 

ace009

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about engine.....

New interview with Al-41F chief designer

Defunct Humanity: New interview with Al-41F chief designer

1) 117 and 117S are different engines. 117 is more advanced

2) from Chepkin words 117 = 25% better than AL-31FP. So, about 15,625 kgf thrust

3) Type 30, (Not 117S nor 117) which is 15-25% better than Type 117

Very interesting - Although he did not talk about what are the projected RCS of the aircraft from different aspects. Also, what did he mean by "new weapons" - what new missiles will it carry - does that mean IAF will have to buy all those new weapons to arm the FGFA?
 

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