Sukhoi PAK FA

[DumbPilot]

After IAF backed out of FGFA why are we even discussing this . They caused problems with modifications from our side . The IAF isn't going to accept the basic ass electronics that the Russians offer .
A d if we have a brown dhoti moment with cheen it will me f 35 s that will be considered not su57 . .. ffs the Russians don't even have it in good numbers yet.

you need to stop your plain anti-russian rhetoric!

 

[Super Flanker]

What makes you say that Su-57 is a 4/4.5 gen fighter plane when J-20 has worse stealth characteristics than the Su-57 plane and its engines are not as powerful as the engine than Su-57 and you have no problem calling the J-20 a 5th generation fighter?

J-20 does not have worse stealth characteristics than the Su-57, its actually the opposite. The J-20 has a lower RCS than the Russian Su-57 and this has been proven scientifically in various tests and simulations. When we compare the radar contour of both Su-57 and J-20, we actually realise that the J-20 is more stealthy.

J-20 Radar scattering simulation

Introduction J-20 is the world’s third operational fifth-generation stealth fighter aircraft after the F-22 and F-35. It made China the second country in the world af…

basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com

Su-57 Radar scattering simulation

Introduction Su-57 is the first aircraft in Russian military service designed with stealth technology, it is intended to replace Su-27/30/35 family and server as the Russian answer to the American …

basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com

Important thing to take into account here: In the above simulation of both the stealth fighters, there is no RAM used, both the aircraft are considered as perfect electrical conductor which reflect radio waves like a metallic object so if RAM was taken into account then both aircraft would reflect very much less, but I think the people who did the above simulation didn't do so because they weren't aware of the effectiveness of RAM used on the J-20 and Su-57.

People shouldn't be underestimating the J-20, if the J-20 were indeed less stealthy than the Su-57 and barely a 4.5 generation fighter then the USAF wouldn't be using its F-35 as an aggressor to stimulate the J-20.

US Air Force Prepares For 'Ultimate Clash' With China's J-20 Stealth Fighters; USAF Gets 1st Fifth-Gen Aggressor Pilot

Battling China's J-20 stealth fighter, US Air Force has got its first fifth-gen aggressor pilot for 65th Aggressor Squadron at Nellis AFB.

www.eurasiantimes.com

First J-20 representing F-35 Aggressor Aircraft unveiled at Nellis AFB - The Aviation Geek Club

First J-20 representing F-35 Aggressor Aircraft unveiled at Nellis AFB

theaviationgeekclub.com

Conclusion: I will say this, people on this forum, not the more well educated ones but the nationalists always tend to make BS claims about our adversaries, I am not saying that everything that the CCP is saying is true and the J-20 is a god level aircraft that can easily triumph other fifth generation Stealth fighters but I wouldn't want us to find it out the hard way. Nationalism is a curse.

 

[Blademaster]

J-20 does not have worse stealth characteristics than the Su-57, its actually the opposite. The J-20 has a lower RCS than the Russian Su-57 and this has been proven scientifically in various tests and simulations. When we compare the radar contour of both Su-57 and J-20, we actually realise that the J-20 is more stealthy.

J-20 Radar scattering simulation

Introduction J-20 is the world’s third operational fifth-generation stealth fighter aircraft after the F-22 and F-35. It made China the second country in the world af…

basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com

Su-57 Radar scattering simulation

Introduction Su-57 is the first aircraft in Russian military service designed with stealth technology, it is intended to replace Su-27/30/35 family and server as the Russian answer to the American …

basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com

Important thing to take into account here: In the above simulation of both the stealth fighters, there is no RAM used, both the aircraft are considered as perfect electrical conductor which reflect radio waves like a metallic object so if RAM was taken into account then both aircraft would reflect very much less, but I think the people who did the above simulation didn't do so because they weren't aware of the effectiveness of RAM used on the J-20 and Su-57.

People shouldn't be underestimating the J-20, if the J-20 were indeed less stealthy than the Su-57 and barely a 4.5 generation fighter then the USAF wouldn't be using its F-35 as an aggressor to stimulate the J-20.

US Air Force Prepares For 'Ultimate Clash' With China's J-20 Stealth Fighters; USAF Gets 1st Fifth-Gen Aggressor Pilot

Battling China's J-20 stealth fighter, US Air Force has got its first fifth-gen aggressor pilot for 65th Aggressor Squadron at Nellis AFB.

www.eurasiantimes.com

First J-20 representing F-35 Aggressor Aircraft unveiled at Nellis AFB - The Aviation Geek Club

First J-20 representing F-35 Aggressor Aircraft unveiled at Nellis AFB

theaviationgeekclub.com

Conclusion: I will say this, people on this forum, not the more well educated ones but the nationalists always tend to make BS claims about our adversaries, I am not saying that everything that the CCP is saying is true and the J-20 is a god level aircraft that can easily triumph other fifth generation Stealth fighters but I wouldn't want us to find it out the hard way. Nationalism is a curse.

Sorry unless they have the real thing in front of them and turn on the radar and analyze the radar return characteristics I am highly skeptical of their analysis. How do they establish a high degree of fidelity in their analysis when they don't have the real thing in front of them. They are basing their analysis on close up shots and magnified photos and a lot of guesswork in putting together a model etc. The dimensions may not be correct and could be off by a significant variance.

It is all guess work with no real basis to back the numbers and analysis up.

 

[Blademaster]

After IAF backed out of FGFA why are we even discussing this . They caused problems with modifications from our side . The IAF isn't going to accept the basic ass electronics that the Russians offer .
A d if we have a brown dhoti moment with cheen it will me f 35 s that will be considered not su57 . .. ffs the Russians don't even have it in good numbers yet.

Because the IAF don't have a choice. They finally wised up to the fact that PLAAF has over 150 5th gen fighters and IAF have nothing to show for it except a program who has not even produced a working model only on paper. Russian FGFA is the only other option available since IAF made it clear that they don't want the F-35A. What other choices does IAF have? Can't be the Turkey option. Other option is the Korean but that is not even a true stealth plane.

 

[Super Flanker]

Sorry unless they have the real thing in front of them and turn on the radar and analyze the radar return characteristics I am highly skeptical of their analysis. How do they establish a high degree of fidelity in their analysis when they don't have the real thing in front of them. They are basing their analysis on close up shots and magnified photos and a lot of guesswork in putting together a model etc. The dimensions may not be correct and could be off by a significant variance.

It is all guess work with no real basis to back the numbers and analysis up.

The radar scattering simulation is as accurate as it gets, I dare say that it is the most accurate analysis that one can make of the two stealth fighters without actually getting our hands on the real thing, and the simulation model of the J-20 & Su-57 in the above analysis has been replicated to be as accurate as possible, here and there they may be some inaccuracies but not so much that it would affect the entire radar contour simulation to the point that we wouldn't be able to get a general idea of the stealth characteristics of the both aircraft.

And no, it is not simply some guesswork, it has been made carefully and with proper study from all the possible information in open source. All it takes is common sense to draw a conclusion.

 

[karn]

Because the IAF don't have a choice. They finally wised up to the fact that PLAAF has over 150 5th gen fighters and IAF have nothing to show for it except a program who has not even produced a working model only on paper. Russian FGFA is the only other option available since IAF made it clear that they don't want the F-35A. What other choices does IAF have? Can't be the Turkey option. Other option is the Korean but that is not even a true stealth plane.

Nothing was made clear about the f35 . But things were made clear about the FGFA. Su57 is not even an option available for vvs leave alone the IAF .

 

[Blademaster]

The radar scattering simulation is as accurate as it gets, I dare say that it is the most accurate analysis that one can make of the two stealth fighters without actually getting our hands on the real thing, and the simulation model of the J-20 & Su-57 in the above analysis has been replicated to be as accurate as possible, here and there they may be some inaccuracies but not so much that it would affect the entire radar contour simulation to the point that we wouldn't be able to get a general idea of the stealth characteristics of the both aircraft.

And no, it is not simply some guesswork, it has been made carefully and with proper study from all the possible information in open source. All it takes is common sense to draw a conclusion.

Sorry I have been involved in too many engineering analysis and fuck-ups to accept those analysis that were based without having the real thing at face values. Assumptions are the mothers of all fuck-ups in engineering parlance. You have to show me the basis for your high degree of fidelity and whether those analysis are truly based on real numbers not imaginary or guesswork numbers. In stealth, even a small misplacement of the location of a bump or protrusion can make a big difference in radar returns. And I see way more protrusions and angular juttings on the J-20s than on the Su-57s and yet somehow it is more stealthy than the Su-57. Color me a skeptic.

 

[Blademaster]

Nothing was made clear about the f35 . But things were made clear about the FGFA. Su57 is not even an option available for vvs leave alone the IAF .

What are you talking about? Su-57 is entering into full swing production for the Russian Air Force. And Russia has offered India the Su-57 again. IAF does not want the F-35 especially after that fiasco in S. Korea when it was completely written off due to an errant software code that caused the F-35 to crash.

India Denies Interest in F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

The Indian Air Force has denied that it requested a classified briefing on Lockheed Martin’s F-35.

thediplomat.com

U.S. tries to woo India away from Russia with display of F-35s, bombers

The United States brought its most advanced fighter jet, the F-35, to India for the first time this week alongside F-16s, Super Hornets and B-1B bombers as Washington looks to woo New Delhi away from its traditional military supplier, Russia.

www.reuters.com

So, tell me what other choices do the IAF have other than the Su-57 plane?

 

[karn]

What are you talking about? Su-57 is entering into full swing production for the Russian Air Force. And Russia has offered India the Su-57 again. IAF does not want the F-35 especially after that fiasco in S. Korea when it was completely written off due to an errant software code that caused the F-35 to crash.

India Denies Interest in F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

The Indian Air Force has denied that it requested a classified briefing on Lockheed Martin’s F-35.

thediplomat.com

U.S. tries to woo India away from Russia with display of F-35s, bombers

The United States brought its most advanced fighter jet, the F-35, to India for the first time this week alongside F-16s, Super Hornets and B-1B bombers as Washington looks to woo New Delhi away from its traditional military supplier, Russia.

www.reuters.com

So, tell me what other choices do the IAF have other than the Su-57 plane?

Err .. what this means is that there is no official file being moved for its procurement ,not will never buy it. FGFA we walked away from after sinking cash in .
Full swing production su57 target is for 84 aircraft by 2028 .. which itself seems doubtful. Obviously there is no capacity for IAF orders .

 

[Blademaster]

Err .. what this means is that there is no official file being moved for its procurement ,not will never buy it. FGFA we walked away from after sinking cash in .
Full swing production su57 target is for 84 aircraft by 2028 .. which itself seems doubtful. Obviously there is no capacity for IAF orders .

And you think that the F-35 is available for the IAF? IAF has a better chance with the FGFA than with the F-35A.

Besides IAF has not officially ruled it out despite walking away from it. After all, IAF needs to recoup its investment in some form or other. IAF doesn't have that much choice. I foresee that IAF will be forced to swallow its pride and come back begging for the FGFA when the AMCA invariably encounters another delay.

 

[karn]

And you think that the F-35 is available for the IAF? IAF has a better chance with the FGFA than with the F-35A.

Besides IAF has not officially ruled it out despite walking away from it. After all, IAF needs to recoup its investment in some form or other. IAF doesn't have that much choice. I foresee that IAF will be forced to swallow its pride and come back begging for the FGFA when the AMCA invariably encounters another delay.

The IAF will beg for f35 in that scenario . Su57 is done and buried as far as IAF is concerned .
And I'm sure Russia would send us aircraft while we are in a shooting war with china lmao.

 

[Blademaster]

The IAF will beg for f35 in that scenario . Su57 is done and buried as far as IAF is concerned .
And I'm sure Russia would send us aircraft while we are in a shooting war with china lmao.

They have and will continue to do so. Russia will not abandon India to help China out. Russia is not that desperate and besides keeping India as an ally will help Russia counter China and keep the scales of balance from tipping too far into China.

You keep thinking that Russia is subservient to China. You are gravely mistaken. It is not and never will be.

 

[bhramos]

 

[The3Amigos]

Su-57 is an excellent machine, especially coupled with the R-37M which can rival PL-15. It is likely India will opt for Su-57 in the coming years to counter J-20.

 

[The3Amigos]

Because the IAF don't have a choice. They finally wised up to the fact that PLAAF has over 150 5th gen fighters and IAF have nothing to show for it except a program who has not even produced a working model only on paper. Russian FGFA is the only other option available since IAF made it clear that they don't want the F-35A. What other choices does IAF have? Can't be the Turkey option. Other option is the Korean but that is not even a true stealth plane.

J-20 numbers is probably about 250 by now. Granted, it's not as many as F-35, but it's not meant to be. J-20 is a big plane the size of F-15. F-35 is F-16 size.

 

[The3Amigos]

Personally, Su-57 has the best proportions and looks the best. J-20 is too long and narrow. F-22 is too short and stumpy.

 

[raju1982]

Su-57 is an excellent machine, especially coupled with the R-37M which can rival PL-15. It is likely India will opt for Su-57 in the coming years to counter J-20.

Alas! thanks to huge delaus in AMCA we habe to either go for Su-57 or F-35.

But i think Su-37 is a Rafale F3R level not a true 5th gen fighter.

 

[The3Amigos]

Alas! thanks to huge delaus in AMCA we habe to either go for Su-57 or F-35.

But i think Su-37 is a Rafale F3R level not a true 5th gen fighter.

If India needs a big plane then I think Su-57 is the best choice. Su-57 is F-15 size class. Rafale and F-35 are F-16 size class.

 

[raju1982]

If India needs a big plane then I think Su-57 is the best choice. Su-57 is F-15 size class. Rafale and F-35 are F-16 size class.

I was talking capability wise. Su-57 is not a true 5th gen fighter. its stealth, sensor, radar are more less less Rafale F3R class i guess.

 

[The3Amigos]

I was talking capability wise. Su-57 is not a true 5th gen fighter. its stealth, sensor, radar are more less less Rafale F3R class i guess.

Su-57 is advertised as 5th generation in the new Top Gun movie.