Sukhoi PAK FA

[asianobserve]

1 - You are appear to have no brain (proven by anyone who has seen photos of T-50-6-2+ airframes in close).
2 - They don't need radar reflectors - Russians don't tempted to hide differences between advertised and real RCS (cause they don't have them).
3 - If Russians don't show you photos of MWBs open (except for prototype ones on Berkut) it doesn't mean that no weapons were fired from them. It means that there are some unique (and thus secret) features that allows T-50 to have heavy weapons all-altitude supersonic delivery and some special systems (weapons based on new physical principals announced by Sergey Shoigu a year ago) connection and attach interfaces that should not be seen by anyone but the authorized personnel.

Don't you trust KTRV CEO Boris Obnosov when he says that 10 new weapons types from 14 announced are already integrated, tested and certified (this means their delivery from MWBs and FSBs)?

1. That light colored RAM coating looks inferior even compared to Chinese J-20 RAM coating. That's the sort of inexpensive RAM coating that is used on wide surfaces like warships.

2. PAKFA does not need radar reflectors because it will not make any difference, PAKFA radar signature is only slightly better than Su-35;

3. The Russian military is the biggest show-off in the planet. Every milestone is used as a propaganda specially in its conventional weapons. So without videos of PAKFA testing missile launchings from its internal weapons bays only means that PAKFA is still a long way from being a mature platform. The only weapon it is known to have launched from its internal weapons bay doors is a "dumb bomb."

In particular, the lack of photos of PAKFA launching missiles from its internal weapons bays means that:

a. The launching rails and weapons bay doors are not yet ready for missile launching; and,
b. The software that integrates PAKFA's sensors and its weapons are not yet mature or fully installed.

That decision to send "PROTOTYPE" PAKFA's to Syria is therefore nothing more than a desperate ploy to present an image that all is going well with PAKFA since even China is doing better in its J-20 program which ironically it bought from Russia's Mig 1.44 program. I would go further to speculate that this decision is aimed at convincing India to stay on "FINANCING" this seriously flawed Russian weapons program.

Here's an old 2013 photo of J-20 showing its internal weapons bay:

 

[Sancho]

how come we paid them billions without contract .......?

=>

TALKS TO EXTEND MILITARY COOPERATION AGREEMENT BEYOND 2010 WITH RUSSIA HAS STARTED: ANTONY
18-October, 2007

India and Russia today signed a landmark Intergovernmental Agreement for the joint development and joint production of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), marking the beginning of cooperation in the development of state of the art new technology major weapon systems...

More at:
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelcontent.aspx?relid=32016

=>

India, Russia seal PAK FA research deal
21 DECEMBER, 2010

The deal was signed during Russian president Dmitry Medvedev's official visit to New Delhi in December.

Hindustan Aeronautics chairman Ashok Nayak has valued the contract at $295 million. During its 18-month term, Indian designers will work with Sukhoi's designers in Russia, building in Indian requirements for the variant...

More at:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-russia-seal-pak-fa-research-deal-351203/

=>

India's FGFA stealth fighter set for 2014 roll-out
22 AUGUST, 2012

"The first prototype of the FGFA is scheduled to arrive in India by 2014 after which it will undergo extensive trials at the Ojhar air base," Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne says. "We are hopeful that the aircraft would be ready for induction by 2022."

A second prototype is expected to arrive in India in 2017 while a third should arrive in 2019...

More at:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/indias-fgfa-stealth-fighter-set-for-2014-roll-out-375726/

The issue forward were the modifications IAF required, especially wrt to the type 30 engine, which delayed any final contract signature, while today the increased costs from the overall programme might went up, beyond the initially promised figures + different political goals.

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @scramble_nl an:
Seems like they plan to launch AEW aircrafts with a ramp now and not with catapults anymore, while naval Su57 and also naval Mig 35s are pitched (see Mig 35 thread).

 

[scatterStorm]

It's a no brainer, how can a prototype non-weapon firing plane be a threat to F-22s, SHs and F-15s, or Predators for that matter? What is it going to do against US planes, distract them by doing Pugachev cobra? Or maybe crash into an F-15 (they cannot crash into something that they cannot locate much more catch, so they have no chance of crashing into an F-22)?

Same can be said for SU-57, "you cannot crash into something that the USAF cannot locate".

 

[scatterStorm]

Okay, my bad. This is because I always think of internal weapons bays when it comes to 5th gen fighter weapons testing.

So no internal weapons bay? All the missiles are hanging under the wings. This is just a glorified Su-35.

No wonder I don't see any Lenenburg lens in any of prototypes. It does not seem to need one. The Chinese on the other hand have installed radar reflectors on their J-20 for non-combat flights:

You do know that weapon trials do involve both internal and external weapon testing on pylons.

 

[asianobserve]

You do know that weapon trials do involve both internal and external weapon testing on pylons.

Of course. But the Russians have not lunched missiles either from its centerline or wingroot internal weapons bays which does not bode well for PAKFA's status. Remember that for a long time the frustration of IAF top brass on PAKFA's development has been boiling. That should tell you that that aircraft is experiencing a lot of troubles in its development. Do you think IAF will ask for intelligence briefing on F-35 if they're confident that PAKFA can deliver its promise?

Just to show you F-22's internal weapons bay missile testing:

F-35

And the Chinese at least has already shown the J-20's loaded internal weapons bays:

And the Russians are the No. 1 show-offs and propagandists. Just look at how they advertise Su-35 and yet it has not provided evidence that it has a working internal weapons bays or one that is already fully integrated.

 

[asianobserve]

Putin's Newest Stealth Fighters Are Nonoperational. So Why Deploy Them to Syria?

The Russian Air Force doesn’t need the Sukhoi 57 to bomb more civilians in Syria. But in an election year, it looks good on television screens back home

Deploying nearly half of Sukhoi’s prototypes to Syria will not only cause months of delay in the test program, as the flights taking place there will be of little use since they won’t be carried out in the necessary conditions and with calibrated telemetry instruments. It also risks exposing some of the aircraft’s unique capabilities. Every radar system within 400 kilometers (about 250 miles) range of Khmeimim – there are a lot of them, and you can be certain that more were flown out there by NATO over the weekend – will be focused on detecting the Su-57 and acquiring readings of its radar and sensors signatures.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...-syria-are-putin-s-election-gimmick-1.5847755

 

[lcafanboy]

Putin's Newest Stealth Fighters Are Nonoperational. So Why Deploy Them to Syria?





https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...-syria-are-putin-s-election-gimmick-1.5847755

Russia has deployed su57 to sniff out f-35 and f-22 both of which have been deployed by US air force. Even though it's not operational the avionics are ready and its library of threats needs to be updated and they have got the opportunity for same. So it's a good move by Russia..,

 

[asianobserve]

Russia has deployed su57 to sniff out f-35 and f-22 both of which have been deployed by US air force. Even though it's not operational the avionics are ready and its library of threats needs to be updated and they have got the opportunity for same. So it's a good move by Russia..,

There's no need to send prototype PAKFA to Syria to "sniff out" F-22s and F-35s for incorporation into PAKFA's threat library. Russia already has an ELINT aircraft TU-214R in Syria which has been doing the sniffing.

All these international observers are correct in saying, PAKFA's presence in Syria is all for show. In fact, it might delay the ongoing testing process of PAKFA.

 

[asianobserve]

Of all the idiotic B.S. that has come out of Russian propaganda mouthpieces this one take the icing as the most absurd. I don't think even Russians who seem to be easily fooled by Kremlin propaganda will fall for this one...

Russia takes revenge for killed mercenaries of PMC Wagner

It was said that Russian state-of-the-art Su-57 fighter aircraft were involved in the operation to strike terrorists in Eastern Ghouta.

Local sources said that the Russian Air Force also managed to eliminate dozens of US military instructors involved in the training of extremist fighters. It is believed that they were training radical Islamists from the so-called "New Syrian Army" in field camps in the vicinity of Damascus.

:bs:

The use of Su-57 warplanes against pro-American forces has come as a response to the actions of the Western coalition in Deir ez-Zor.

See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/asia/syria/26-02-2018/140168-russia_wagner-0/

So that's why Putin ordered 2 half-baked PAKFA prototypes to be sent to Syria, so that Pravda can write this ridiculous propaganda piece for the Russian audience who have been disheartened by the almost complete annihilation of their mercenary countrymen in Syria.

Reminds me of the most infamous quote of the most notorious yellow journalist in America, W.R. Hearst: "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war."

 

[bhramos]

Total radar Su-57

Russian fighters of the fifth generation of the Su-57 received a "smart lining". The antennas of the H036 "Belka" radar station are now placed not only in the nose of the machine (which allows to see objects in the forward hemisphere), but also distributed over the surface of the aircraft. According to experts, this will provide the Russian fighter with advanced capabilities. The car will receive a circular survey for hundreds of kilometers, and the pilot will be timely warned of the danger.

Traditionally, radar antennas are installed in the nose of the fighter in special fairings made of radio-transparent material. At the same time the station is densely inscribed in the design of the aircraft and does not reduce its speed and maneuverability. Theoretically, this arrangement of the radar provides an overview of approximately 180 degrees. The radar does not see an opponent attacking from behind or from the side of the wings.

In the Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Engineering. V.V. Tikhomirova (NIIP, part of the Almaz-Antei Concern) Izvestia stated that during the flight tests the radar station H036 confirmed the declared parameters. This radar will ensure the superiority of the Russian aircraft over any enemy, including the fifth-generation American fighters: F-22 and F-35.

"The characteristics of the radar are confirmed in the main modes - when scanning airspace and the earth's surface," YIRO Bely's general director told Izvestiya. - We were able to assess the shortcomings of previous developments and use the latest scientific achievements. For example, in the part of the so-called intelligent plating - when active phased array antennas of different ranges are distributed over the fighter's body.

"Protein" is made using AFAR technology. The traditional antenna is replaced by a so-called antenna array - a design of hundreds of small elements that independently emit and receive a signal. One such system is located in the bow of the Su-57, two more - in the slats (deflected surfaces on the leading edges of the wing). In total, the design of the Su-57 provides six radar systems, but their exact configuration is not disclosed. The antennas of the complex operate in different bands.

In comparison with traditional locators, radars with AFAR have an increased range of target detection, receive a more accurate picture of both airborne and ground targets. They are also better protected against electronic interference. Therefore, "Belka" is able to solve a wide range of tasks: search and detection of air and ground targets, the use of weapons, navigation and mapping.

As the military expert Alexei Leonkov told Izvestia, the distribution of the radar elements on the surface of the Su-57 will provide a virtually complete overview of the air situation.

- The pilot will see everything that is happening around him, in all directions, - said Alexei Leonkov. - In a modern air battle, when both air defense and enemy aviation are struck on the aircraft, a circular survey gives a great advantage. On the Su-57 radar components are most likely located in the leading edge of the wing, above the fuselage and below it, and also in the tail empennage. The use of antennas operating in different bands practically nullifies all the stealth innovations of F-22 and F-35.

The T-50 (prototype Su-57) made its first flight on January 29, 2010. Flight tests with the on-board radar with AFAR continue from 2012. It is expected that the serial deliveries of the Su-57 (these cars will eventually replace the Su-27) will be launched by Russian VCS in 2019. Recently, the agency "Interfax" with reference to informed sources reported the relocation of two Su-57s to Syria and the possibility of combat testing of fighters in this country.

https://iz.ru/703590/sergei-valchenko-aleksei-ramm-aleksandr-kruglov/totalnyi-radar-su-57

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @Russian_Defence an:

 

[asianobserve]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @Russian_Defence an:

As what defense analysts have been saying, PAKFA's excursion to Syria is mainly for show. It's far from ready for any combat ops. In fact, that tweet clearly days that no weapons testing will happen in Syria.

This makes the Pravda "news" article I quoted above even more hilarious. It also tells you the level of contempt Kremlin propagandists have of the intelligence of their own citizens that they would make this kind of patently fabricated stories...

 

[asianobserve]

Total radar Su-57

This radar will ensure the superiority of the Russian aircraft over any enemy, including the fifth-generation American fighters: F-22 and F-35.

The only superiority PAKFA will have over F-22 and F-35 is RCS, because it'll have a huge RCS in comparison to F-35 much more F-22. It does not even use radar reflectors.

The use of antennas operating in different bands practically nullifies all the stealth innovations of F-22 and F-35.

https://iz.ru/703590/sergei-valchenko-aleksei-ramm-aleksandr-kruglov/totalnyi-radar-su-57

Well, except for the slight detail that the F-35s new baked in RAM known as fiber mat technology applies on EM frequencies from 0.1 through 60 MHz or from L through K bands.

And there plans of using this RAM tech on the F-22.

 

[scatterStorm]

Of course. But the Russians have not lunched missiles either from its centerline or wingroot internal weapons bays which does not bode well for PAKFA's status. Remember that for a long time the frustration of IAF top brass on PAKFA's development has been boiling. That should tell you that that aircraft is experiencing a lot of troubles in its development. Do you think IAF will ask for intelligence briefing on F-35 if they're confident that PAKFA can deliver its promise?

Just to show you F-22's internal weapons bay missile testing:

F-35

And the Chinese at least has already shown the J-20's loaded internal weapons bays:

And the Russians are the No. 1 show-offs and propagandists. Just look at how they advertise Su-35 and yet it has not provided evidence that it has a working internal weapons bays or one that is already fully integrated.

If the Russians don't won't to let anybody to know, then who gives a shit if that Jet is firing pipes or missiles out of it's IWBs, that's why there's a term called "secret". Weapon trials were done, people who know it, are very well aware of that what type of armament is being selected and what counter measures can be made to it.

Take the simple case of SU57s being deployed to Syria to test its ECM and radar capabilities, who wouldn't want to miss an opportunity that there's a controlled war zone over Syria. Hmm, let's check the checklist:

1. Rafale's... Done
2. F22s... Done
3. F35s... Done

Then who the hell is stopping Russians to test it's own war machine. If they decided that, then it's pretty sure that they are very confident of there machine. Take a look at there state of news reporting channel RT clearly stating in there article that it was deployed to test ECM capabilities and "not weapons", hence it was escorted by SU30SM.

Conclusion: Look not every story is a good ol American Fell good and happy ending story like there propaganda machine let's you to think of. Eg. Lockheed's fleet of Marketing machine and fake news.

 

[scatterStorm]

As what defense analysts have been saying, PAKFA's excursion to Syria is mainly for show.

I would be concerned that a possibility and quote according to you those "defense analyst" aren't... PAID. Are you Bullocks, if the deep state can place fleet of retards like Hillary, Trump or Obambi on prez seat, than you seriously have never read on the infamous military complex of the United Friggin states of America.

If you haven't observed and given a thought that weapons manufacturer such as Lockheed couldn't pull PR stunts knowing there defence and black projects budget than you are dead wrong. It's completely clouding you brains...

Go check the the debate of F16 designer and the Lt. Colonel on youtube. I know that Pieere is gone bullocks but he pulled out some major critical points on how these machine flying in Air shows and the PR show off is done in the military complex.

To give your clouded brain a perspective, IHS Jane has clearly mentioned in there recent article that the 2 of it's 1st squadron of prototypes are currently deployed to test ECM and Radar capabilities in Syria. That suggest that this development is serious on track.

FYI, we dropped our single engine fighter contest and now are pushing for Tejas. We Indians aren't considering F35, it's just not me but my pilot buddy who passed his training and now flying a Mig21-B very well knows why we dropped F35 on first place... I will give you a hint... Kargil War and air campaign of IAF.

 

[asianobserve]

If the Russians don't won't to let anybody to know, then who gives a shit if that Jet is firing pipes or missiles out of it's IWBs, that's why there's a term called "secret". Weapon trials were done, people who know it, are very well aware of that what type of armament is being selected and what counter measures can be made to it.

Take the simple case of SU57s being deployed to Syria to test its ECM and radar capabilities, who wouldn't want to miss an opportunity that there's a controlled war zone over Syria. Hmm, let's check the checklist:

1. Rafale's... Done
2. F22s... Done
3. F35s... Done

Then who the hell is stopping Russians to test it's own war machine. If they decided that, then it's pretty sure that they are very confident of there machine. Take a look at there state of news reporting channel RT clearly stating in there article that it was deployed to test ECM capabilities and "not weapons", hence it was escorted by SU30SM.

Conclusion: Look not every story is a good ol American Fell good and happy ending story like there propaganda machine let's you to think of. Eg. Lockheed's fleet of Marketing machine and fake news.

Don't kid yourself. The Russians would even send a half-baked prototype to a combat zone for media mileage, showing photos and videos of PAKFA blasting aerial target drones with AAM and ground targets with smart bombs would be the most absolutely desirable propaganda materials for Kremlin.

Haven't you been reading Russia's crazy propaganda:"SU-35 chased F-22 away!" This would pale nothing in comparison to: "Su-57 blasted all target drones to smitherines and the F-22 is toast!"

 

[Sancho]

As what defense analysts have been saying, PAKFA's excursion to Syria is mainly for show.

You have to read properly:

sensor & #EW systems to be tested

Syria is the perfect place to gain sensor info's an all the latest western fighters and also to test Russian tactics against western fighters. It's basically a live Trident excercise, where Russia can simulated combined tactics of Su 57, Su 35, A50, in an airspace with actual Eurofighters, Rafales , F15, F16, F18SH, F35 and F22, while NATO countries needed F15s and T38 to simulate aggressors.

Still imo too risky at this stage of development, but not stupid either.

 

[MrPresident]

I found a video on youtube of internal weapons bay test of SU57. Please correct me if i am wrong. The display is at 1.25.

 

[Sancho]

I found a video on youtube of internal weapons bay test of SU57. Please correct me if i am wrong. The display is at 1.25.

Those were computer created, there are only reports about weapon bay tests, no pics or videos so far, but neither were there any pics of the saw toothed TVN shortly before they flew either.
There are older pics of the Su 47 with weapon bays, which are likely to be the base for Su 57 too.