Sukhoi PAK FA

[Sancho]

xxx
But asianobserve lives in alternative reality anuway

You are right about his bias, but let's keep it civil.

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @WaelAlHussaini an:
Apparently there are 4 x Su 57 in Syria now?

 

[asianobserve]

You are dumb retard.
And poorly informed one.

T-50 have started weapons tests in mid 2016.
Including MWBs and FSBs fire tests.
There are 4 new weapon types left to integrate from 14 new types announced according to KTRV CEO Boris Obnosov.

But asianobserve lives in alternative reality anuway

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

Okay, my bad. This is because I always think of internal weapons bays when it comes to 5th gen fighter weapons testing.

So no internal weapons bay? All the missiles are hanging under the wings. This is just a glorified Su-35.

No wonder I don't see any Lenenburg lens in any of prototypes. It does not seem to need one. The Chinese on the other hand have installed radar reflectors on their J-20 for non-combat flights:

 

[Armand2REP]

Okay, my bad. This is because I always think of internal weapons bays when it comes to 5th gen fighter weapons testing.

So no internal weapons bay? All the missiles are hanging under the wings. This is just a glorified Su-35.

Kind of like how this is just a glorified F-16 that flies like a brick?

 

[asianobserve]

Kind of like how this is just a glorified F-16 that flies like a brick?

That's in unstealthy configuration my dear.

PAKFA on the other hand still has to show us its internal weapons loading. And the Russians are consummate show-offs, yet they have not shown off one of t he most important feature of a 5th gen fighter either in flight or stationary on the ground.

Also, in all the flight testing photos of PAKFA I did not notice it using radar reflectors even in new paint schemes that Russian posters here claim as RAM coating. That's odd for a so called stealth fighter designed to compete with the F-22...

 

[Armand2REP]

That's in unstealthy configuration my dear.

PAKFA on the other hand still has to show us its internal weapons loading. And the Russians are consummate show-offs, yet they have not shown off one of t he most important feature of a 5th gen fighter either in flight or stationary on the ground.

Also, in all the flight testing photos of PAKFA I did not notice it using radar reflectors even in new paint schemes that Russian posters here claim as RAM coating. That's odd for a so called stealth fighter designed to compete with the F-22...

In order for it to go on any useful combat missions the F-35 is going to be used in an "unstealthy" configuration the vast majority of the time. Only carrying two bombs and two AAMs is a complete waste of flight time.

The Russians don't have to show us that. They are fully capable of making an internal weapons bay. It might be nice to get third party confirmation on the AESA and engines.

 

[gadeshi]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @WaelAlHussaini an:
Apparently there are 4 x Su 57 in Syria now?

No.
Just 2.
The others are Su-35S.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[gadeshi]

Okay, my bad. This is because I always think of internal weapons bays when it comes to 5th gen fighter weapons testing.

So no internal weapons bay? All the missiles are hanging under the wings. This is just a glorified Su-35.

No wonder I don't see any Lenenburg lens in any of prototypes. It does not seem to need one. The Chinese on the other hand have installed radar reflectors on their J-20 for non-combat flights:

You can see weapons bays prototypes on "pregnant" Berkut photos.
Real T-50 ones are secret for now.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[asianobserve]

BTW, what's with the dazzle paint scheme?

Looks like WW1 ship camo paint scheme...

So PAKFA is aiming to be stealthy on the visible light spectrum?

Anyway, some observations on PAKFA prototypes, including the ones sent to Syria:

1. They do not appear to have RAM coating;
2. They do not have radar reflectors;
3. They do not have working internal weapons bays.

It is safe to say that these prototypes are inherently non-stealthy. No wonder the Indian Air force is looking at the F-35...

 

[gadeshi]

BTW, what's with the dazzle paint scheme?

Looks like WW1 ship camo paint scheme...

So PAKFA is aiming to be stealthy on the visible light spectrum?

Anyway, some observations on PAKFA prototypes, including the ones sent to Syria:

1. They do not appear to have RAM coating;
2. They do not have radar reflectors;
3. They do not have working internal weapons bays.

It is safe to say that these prototypes are inherently non-stealthy. No wonder the Indian Air force is looking at the F-35...

1 - You are appear to have no brain (proven by anyone who has seen photos of T-50-6-2+ airframes in close).
2 - They don't need radar reflectors - Russians don't tempted to hide differences between advertised and real RCS (cause they don't have them).
3 - If Russians don't show you photos of MWBs open (except for prototype ones on Berkut) it doesn't mean that no weapons were fired from them. It means that there are some unique (and thus secret) features that allows T-50 to have heavy weapons all-altitude supersonic delivery and some special systems (weapons based on new physical principals announced by Sergey Shoigu a year ago) connection and attach interfaces that should not be seen by anyone but the authorized personnel.

Don't you trust KTRV CEO Boris Obnosov when he says that 10 new weapons types from 14 announced are already integrated, tested and certified (this means their delivery from MWBs and FSBs)?

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @imagesatint an:

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @Russian_Defence an:

 

[bhramos]

NATO Satellite image of 2 Su-57 Stealth aircraft on Russian Hmeimim Air Base,Latakia ,Syria
Coordinates 35°24′34.205″N 35°56′31.936″E

 

[delbruky]

In my opinion which ever way one might want to sugar coat it this is not the first time Russians have betrayed India and won't be the last.

Betrayal 1. Assassination of LB Shastri and abetting congress in corrupt practices against India.
Betrayal 2. Providing sub standard spares for all the migs leading to several trained and rookie pilot deaths
Betrayal 3, Refusing India critical technologies and maps in the hour of need and in the event of wars like Cryo Tech, Kargil Maps and instead supplying defective cryo engines, and crappy maps.
Betrayal 4. Colluding with communists and socialists of India and actively subverting and Spying
Betrayal 5. Sharing all the techs that India paid for in FULL and is still paying royalties for with china eg. SU 27, SU 30, IL 76, T72 and T90 tanks. Doing this even though the Chinese back stabbed Russians many times by copying techs
Betrayal 6. Competing against Indian interests in Iran' FARZAD B fields that ONGC discovered and paid for.
AND Finally colluding with Pakistan and China against Indian interests in UN, Afghanistan and supplying arms and ammo to terrorists.

I am amazed at the fall of Russia from the Soviet Days up until today. What ever happened to the pride of Lenin, Nikita and Krutchev. I never thought I would see a day where the Russis will be ass licking the very country that actively took part in the collapse of USSR.

The bottom line is Russia deserves CRIPPLING sanctions from US and UN and should be kicked out of Syria. Also Russia should be banned from SWIFT just like was done to Iran until PUTEEE resigns and the top leadership is replaced. Democracy and Elections in Russia are a big farce.

IN MY OPINION It's time to say ADIOS AMIGOS to Russia, and develop deep ties with Ukranian def-inf manuf complex.
RUSSIA IS NOW A CERTIFIED FRESH CHIN-PAK ASS LICKER. THE ONLY THING THEY DESERVE IS MORE SANCTIONS AND LOW OIL PRICES.

WE DON'T WANT THE CRAP CALLED SU 57, SU 50 T50....or what ever you may wan't to call it. Russian perfidy has been fully displayed in my above post. IAF has rejected the plane for good a reason. PUTEE will not blink and eye in sharing all the tech that India fully paid for with china, just like it did with sukhois, T90s, T72 and other equipments. They will not service the plane. They Will provide crappy or no spare parts.

The bottom line is that they can share what ever they want with their NEW* all weather friend china, but we don't want their crap.

PS: how many of yo know that PAK forces use the same model of MI 17v that Indian forces use.

 

[Adioz]

IN MY OPINION It's time to say ADIOS AMIGOS to Russia, and develop deep ties with Ukranian def-inf manuf complex.
RUSSIA IS NOW A CERTIFIED FRESH CHIN-PAK ASS LICKER. THE ONLY THING THEY DESERVE IS MORE SANCTIONS AND LOW OIL PRICES.

WE DON'T WANT THE CRAP CALLED SU 57, SU 50 T50....or what ever you may wan't to call it. Russian perfidy has been fully displayed in my above post. IAF has rejected the plane for good a reason. PUTEE will not blink and eye in sharing all the tech that India fully paid for with china, just like it did with sukhois, T90s, T72 and other equipments. They will not service the plane. They Will provide crappy or no spare parts.

The bottom line is that they can share what ever they want with their NEW* all weather friend china, but we don't want their crap.

PS: how many of yo know that PAK forces use the same model of MI 17v that Indian forces use.

LoL, you sound bitter.

So the Russians sell their wares to Chinese and Pakis. Who does not? I mean, who does not make profit where they can? Why do you think true patriots on this forum cheer indigenous MIC even when its wares are sub-optimal from a military standpoint? We need indigenous MIC, or else, we are going to be forever dependent on others for our national security.

And Ukraine? Seriously? What can Ukraine's MIC offer you? Akula class submarine? Expertise in building Nuclear reactors, both civil and military? A refurbished aircraft carrier? S-400? The Su-30 MKI that are the back bone of your air force since last decade and throughout next decade? Can Ukraine offer you any of this? Can Ukraine offer you a 5th gen fighter in the "heavy air dominance fighter role"? A missile like Brahmos that represents almost all the missile capability that Army and Navy have? No other country can.
China does pay for what it takes from Russia.

What ticked me off was not that you bad-mouthed Russia. Its that you expected any better from another country. And its that you consider us better off dealing with Ukraine's MIC than with Russia's.
If you don't like the Russians, at least make valid complaints!

Tell me, does China shy away from either Russia or Ukraine when it comes to military purchases? Even though Russia sells to India and Vietnam? Don't expect anyone to be your "ally" in the world. Russia is not your brother. It is its own country. Get over it.

 

[Satybharat]

How come we dont have even a single PAKFA to fly

 

[delbruky]

LoL, you sound bitter.

So the Russians sell their wares to Chinese and Pakis. Who does not? I mean, who does not make profit where they can? Why do you think true patriots on this forum cheer indigenous MIC even when its wares are sub-optimal from a military standpoint? We need indigenous MIC, or else, we are going to be forever dependent on others for our national security.

And Ukraine? Seriously? What can Ukraine's MIC offer you? Akula class submarine? Expertise in building Nuclear reactors, both civil and military? A refurbished aircraft carrier? S-400? The Su-30 MKI that are the back bone of your air force since last decade and throughout next decade? Can Ukraine offer you any of this? Can Ukraine offer you a 5th gen fighter in the "heavy air dominance fighter role"? A missile like Brahmos that represents almost all the missile capability that Army and Navy have? No other country can.
China does pay for what it takes from Russia.

What ticked me off was not that you bad-mouthed Russia. Its that you expected any better from another country. And its that you consider us better off dealing with Ukraine's MIC than with Russia's.
If you don't like the Russians, at least make valid complaints!

Tell me, does China shy away from either Russia or Ukraine when it comes to military purchases? Even though Russia sells to India and Vietnam? Don't expect anyone to be your "ally" in the world. Russia is not your brother. It is its own country. Get over it.

What ever your explanation might be, IAF has serious apprehensions about the product, its engines and terms of purchase and service agreements that are only being negotiated, and are at v early stages I believe. In the past the negotiations have failed at multiple levels and multiple times since inception in 2007. I have nothing more to add. instead of resolving the issues Russians are giving the ultimatum. Now enough with your russi ass lickery!

 

[Adioz]

What ever your explanation might be, IAF has serious apprehensions about the product, its engines and terms of purchase and service agreements that are only being negotiated, and are at v early stages I believe. In the past the negotiations have failed at multiple levels and multiple times since inception in 2007. I have nothing more to add. instead of resolving the issues Russians are giving the ultimatum.

I am not trying to defend the Su-57 here, but simply thinking out loud about what other fighter can fulfill the role of a heavy 5th generation air dominance fighter. F-22 is not in production or on offer. J-20 is not something the IAF will be interested in buying.

If the IAF thinks it can do without a 5th generation platform in the heavy class, then that is even better (more orders for AMCA).

Or maybe the IAF is unwilling to commit to the Su-57 program until it improves/ matures. Su-30 MKI matured from Su-27. Su-57 will mature similarly, or will it? - is the question IAF is asking itself. It might be trying to postpone the decision on this platform and a choice between it and AMCA until it has more funds. It might be thinking of using its existing funds to modernize existing fleet and buy more Tejas and MMRCA. A prudent approach, I guess.

Now enough with your russi ass lickery!

Before you accuse me of something, read my entire post. Contrary to your accusation, I said something entirely different in my post. Read it again:-

Why do you think true patriots on this forum cheer indigenous MIC even when its wares are sub-optimal from a military standpoint? We need indigenous MIC, or else, we are going to be forever dependent on others for our national security.

What ticked me off was not that you bad-mouthed Russia. Its that you expected any better from another country. And its that you consider us better off dealing with Ukraine's MIC than with Russia's.
If you don't like the Russians, at least make valid complaints!

Tell me, does China shy away from either Russia or Ukraine when it comes to military purchases? Even though Russia sells to India and Vietnam? Don't expect anyone to be your "ally" in the world. Russia is not your brother. It is its own country. Get over it.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

How come we dont have even a single PAKFA to fly

Cause we did not sign a contract yet.

 

[Satybharat]

Cause we did not sign a contract yet.

how come we paid them billions without contract .......?

 

[binayak95]

how come we paid them billions without contract .......?

Eh... 300 million USD, not billions. And this whole fighter saga is so convoluted that none can make sense of it.