Sukhoi PAK FA

sthf

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A reasonable FGFA (not the weird 2 seater) is India's best bet for the next two decades. Right now China is busy deploying J-20s to the Far East but eventually you will find them stationed in Tibet. That is plenty of time to negotiate a good deal from Russians. Too much dhoti shivering happens on this forum.
 

scatterStorm

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Sabotaging Tibet is an option on table. But even if they place there J-20s they are far from entering our airspace, considering we are also trying to negotiate on S400 systems.

Even if they have the guts to enter our airspace, our boy's can take care of it's j20. But yes, it still will be a thorn.
 

undeadmyrmidon

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Russia has been suffering deficiencies in its semi-conductor industry under the sanctions regime. The cost of their modules is much higher than European making the radar uneconomical. Uttam will likely be finished before Russia can mass produce AESA radars at a competitive cost. India is better off going for AMCA.
Russian MIC is far superior to current EU one. If war happens purely between EU and Russia war would be over in a weekend. Russian flag would be flying over Paris.
 

Armand2REP

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Russian MIC is far superior to current EU one. If war happens purely between EU and Russia war would be over in a weekend. Russian flag would be flying over Paris.
The second hand Chinese fabrication equipment they are forced to buy in their factory modernisation begs to differ.
 

Armand2REP

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Russia never buys any chinese equipment. It is the other way around.
According to Euromonitor International, the Russian machine tool industry is largely dependent upon imports, which account for 79% of its total size. Foreign producers supply 87% of rolling equipment, 84% of continuous casting machines, and 70% of press-forging equipment. Although the import share of machine tools from China has increased fourfold since 2005.

The continuous demand for machine tools is driven by the government’s strategy to modernize Russian industries across several key sectors to include power generation, transport, defense, automotive, aerospace, shipping, and agriculture. Foreign imports play a key role in fulfilling the Russian economy’s need for modern manufacturing equipment and technology, and major European and Asian suppliers have been active in this market for many years. Foreign machine tool manufacturers supply cheaper, universal types of equipment (China and Turkey) and advanced, state-of-the-art machinery (European countries). In 2014, the main supplier nations were China (21%), Germany (17%), Italy (9%), and the United States (5%) [3]

[3] Data on HS code 84 from Global Trade Atlas “Russia’s Imports Statistics”
 

asianobserve

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Sabotaging Tibet is an option on table. But even if they place there J-20s they are far from entering our airspace, considering we are also trying to negotiate on S400 systems.

Even if they have the guts to enter our airspace, our boy's can take care of it's j20. But yes, it still will be a thorn.

S-400 is next to useless in India against China since Russia also supplied China with S-400 and China by now would have already mastered everything about it including how to defeat it.
 

MrPresident

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S-400 is next to useless in India against China since Russia also supplied China with S-400 and China by now would have already mastered everything about it including how to defeat it.
S400 is an upgrade of S300 and India is been using it for quite a while and we have mastered the usage and tactics as well. will this make Chinese S400 useless???

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

Armand2REP

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S400 is an upgrade of S300 and India is been using it for quite a while and we have mastered the usage and tactics as well. will this make Chinese S400 useless???

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
I am not seeing S-300 on the list of exported air defence systems. Did I go back far enough?

 

MrPresident

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Last edited:

HariPrasad-1

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S-400 is next to useless in India against China since Russia also supplied China with S-400 and China by now would have already mastered everything about it including how to defeat it.
This means If we purchase it, We shall master how to defeat chinese S400. So it is a great deal.
 

scatterStorm

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S-400 is next to useless in India against China since Russia also supplied China with S-400 and China by now would have already mastered everything about it including how to defeat it.
I guess mostly of them are deployed on South China Sea Island if I am correct.
 

asianobserve

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This means If we purchase it, We shall master how to defeat chinese S400. So it is a great deal.

That'll be a waste for between India and China India needs cuttingvedge AD more to deter China which is rapidly developing penetrating attack platforms.
 

bhramos

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It seems Sukhoi Su-57 visited Syria without Nato member Turkey Noticing!!!



The penultimate (ninth in a row) flight prototype of a fifth-generation Russian fighter under the PAK FA program is T-50-11 aircraft, which arrived in Zhukovsky in September 2017. The plane, presumably, participated in February 2018 in a "business trip" to Syria, which is why, apparently, the on-board number "511" was removed from it, but on the keels registration number RF-81755 is printed. Zhukovsky, March 2018 (c) photo Artem Anikeev / text BMPD !!!
 

Sancho

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One thing is sure IAF doesn't want to repeat MKI saga and will go ahead only if everything works out as per their requirement and won't just rely on empty promises.
What MKI saga? The issue, which Vishnu Som also stated, seems to be cost related. The whole project seems to got more costly than initially estimated, which were rather bogus promises from Russian side anyway.
Capability wise, IAF wanted changes / upgrades, which have not changed for nearly the last 10 years and even last year, the Vartaraman committe by the MoD, headed by a former Air Marshal evaluated the technical and industrial sides of the programme and gave a recommendation to go forward with it.

I would even argue, that we should look at an MKI deal now, rather than a joint development anymore.

The joint development, with an own version, was the right move and a step upward from the MKI deal, but since then too little progress has been made in starting the joint programme, while requirements changed (all twin seaters, 250 units) and costs increased on the Russian side, while budgets got smaller on the Indian side.

At this point, India wouldn't benefit from a joint programme anymore, while a custom version, with and improved MKI deal, would still give us access to techs and industrial benefits, without paying too much.
 

prohumanity

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It is a fact that Russia is supplying both China and India ..S-400 ....not only that...to Turkey also.

There is no confusion in the mind of Vladimir Putin because his goal is to push for a multi-polar World order . So if both China and India get the most powerful stuff..its acceptable to Russia.

Both Giants empowered with very powerful weapons...will not fight a war with each other. (due to M.A.D.) and this paves the way for a multi polar World order... Ultimately leading to reduction of western hegemony.
 

asianobserve

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It is a fact that Russia is supplying both China and India ..S-400 ....not only that...to Turkey also.

There is no confusion in the mind of Vladimir Putin because his goal is to push for a multi-polar World order . So if both China and India get the most powerful stuff..its acceptable to Russia.

Both Giants empowered with very powerful weapons...will not fight a war with each other. (due to M.A.D.) and this paves the way for a multi polar World order... Ultimately leading to reduction of western hegemony.

So does that mean that India will simply roll over if China occupies contested territories?

Why spend Gazillions on S-400?
 

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