Sukhoi PAK FA

[Cutting Edge 2]

EXACT SAME NEWS 2 MONTH BEFORE AND NOW EVERY MEDIA HOUSE COPING SAME NEWS.............................
India, Russia to ink deal on 5th-generation fighter aircraft design
PTI|
Updated: May 07, 2017, 04.11 PM IST

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
"We are co-developers. There is nothing called technology transfer in this project. India has equal rights. We will have the wherewithal to continue production. We are equal partner in the project," he said.


THIS PROPAGANDA HAVE BEEN THERE FOR MORE THAN 2 MONTH I ONLY BELIVE IF THERE IS OFFICAL INDIAN OFFICER SOURCE ....................

IAF is focused on Rafale and MoD on F-16, Who is working on FGFA deal?

 

[Vijyes]

Finally, you agreed!

So, why are you so much reluctant when someone sharing some good information.
Here, SAR & BVR are not avionics.

Cheers and Good day

You can name them anything and that won't change anything. Just because I don't know what is correct classification of these extra fitting doesn't change the fact that they're extremely critical requirements. You can change the branding/taxonomy but still they are the ones which are hardest to make. Making these things is what is the real challenge.

 

[TPFscopes]

You can name them anything and that won't change anything. Just because I don't know what is correct classification of these extra fitting doesn't change the fact that they're extremely critical requirements. You can change the branding/taxonomy but still they are the ones which are hardest to make. Making these things is what is the real challenge.

Bro, BVR & SAR are neither type of fittings.
BVR & WVR are range classification for A2A Missiles.

 

[TPFscopes]

IAF is focused on Rafale and MoD on F-16, Who is working on FGFA deal?

Team B

........................................

 

[Vinod DX9]

MAKC(S) 2017 ...
James Drew took this amazing shot
Interestingly... Now this aircraft may be officially termer as Su-57 ..So let's wait for otficial announcement...

 

[Pulkit]

Moreover, what India needs is technology, not the plane itself.

Why will some one give you tech (which you currently don't have) when you are not buying from them

With technology India can make it indigenously whenever necessary.

India needs to develop Tech Indigenously . Technology which is state of art is not simply bought off shelf

Russia wants India to only buy its plane without handing over the technology.

This is where we have to work and stress . We are the only ones who can safeguard our interests . Russians will thinks about there interests not ours.

Why would that be deemed acceptable?

It is not

It is better to simply wait for AMCA till 2030

If we donot have the tech we are expecting from FGFA PakFa PMF deal then 2030 is not really a realistic figure

and in the meantime produce missiles in large numbers for effective deterrence.

Missiles are no alternative for it

Develop sophisticated ABM and SAM technology and make thousands of nuclear warheads

Thousands of nuclear warheads, sorry to say but are u high we do not have that much fissile material available and please do count in the cost aswell.

 

[TPFscopes]

View attachment 17942
MAKC(S) 2017 ...
James Drew took this amazing shot
Interestingly... Now this aircraft may be officially termer as Su-57 ..So let's wait for otficial announcement...

I think , it will be renamed as Su-50.

 

[Vijyes]

Why will some one give you tech (which you currently don't have) when you are not buying from them India needs to develop Tech Indigenously . Technology which is state of art is not simply bought off shelf This is where we have to work and stress . We are the only ones who can safeguard our interests . Russians will thinks about there interests not ours.It is not If we donot have the tech we are expecting from FGFA PakFa PMF deal then 2030 is not really a realistic figure Missiles are no alternative for itThousands of nuclear warheads, sorry to say but are u high we do not have that much fissile material available and please do count in the cost aswell.

What?

Why shouldn't we wait for our indigenous technology like AESA, BVR (already phase1 complete) to materialise? The progress is reasonably fast and will not need more than 2030 for completion for entire AMCA which is being made in modular manner and different parts are being made by different teams parallelly. It is Indian responsibility to make technology. Hence there is no need to buy Russian planes at all.

US made 30000 nukes by 1970s atarting from 1950-55 (about 20 years). With technology much advanced now, it is not hard to. Imagine making that many nukes now too, maybe even in half the time (10 years). Don't forget that India has 1.5lakh tons of Uranium (2% of the word supply of 70-75 lakh tons). Even if 20000 tons are extracted and put in production mode inside PHWR reactors, it is possible to get 20000+ plutonium nukes. We can definitely extract 2000 tons of uranium a year or even more. Cost is no bar as all technology is indigenous. One doesn't see costs for defence expenditure which is indigenous

 

[TPFscopes]

What?

Why shouldn't we wait for our indigenous technology like AESA, BVR (already phase1 complete) to materialise? The progress is reasonably fast and will not need more than 2030 for completion for entire AMCA which is being made in modular manner and different parts are being made by different teams parallelly. It is Indian responsibility to make technology. Hence there is no need to buy Russian planes at all.

US made 30000 nukes by 1970s atarting from 1950-55 (about 20 years). With technology much advanced now, it is not hard to. Imagine making that many nukes now too, maybe even in half the time (10 years). Don't forget that India has 1.5lakh tons of Uranium (2% of the word supply of 70-75 lakh tons). Even if 20000 tons are extracted and put in production mode inside PHWR reactors, it is possible to get 20000+ plutonium nukes. We can definitely extract 2000 tons of uranium a year or even more. Cost is no bar as all technology is indigenous. One doesn't see costs for defence expenditure which is indigenous

Again, you are still resistant to accept the truth.
@Pulkit said that no-one will share there tech without a deal favourable to them. What's wrong with it?
Do you want to reinvent the wheel?
FGFA deal will come with ToT, export rights and source code.

Also don't compare FGFA/PMF with AMCA.

 

[Vijyes]

Again, you are still resistant to accept the truth.
@Pulkit said that no-one will share there tech without a deal favourable to them. What's wrong with it?
Do you want to reinvent the wheel?
FGFA deal will come with ToT, export rights and source code.

Also don't compare FGFA/PMF with AMCA.

I am not resisting. I am just saying that if the Russians refuse to handover technology like they did for Su30 or even the FGFA in the early times of 2014-15-16, we should not go forward and buy the planes.

I completely agree that a deal favourable to them will be needed for ToT but we should keep in Mind that we are not interested in the planes itself but the technology only. That is, if given a chance to buy only ToT we should do it. For example, if the offer is 100 planes with full ToT for 20 billion, and the cost of development of technology in India and time scale holds up, go for it. But if the offer is for same 100 planes for 4 billion, but without key ToT, then it is not worth buying. On the other hand, if the offer is for only ToT at 10-15 billion with only a single plane for demonstration, it is still worth considering.

Simply put, the only intention should be FGFA technology rather than FGFA plane. If the plane is needed for ToT, so be it. But the plane itself is not what should be sought after. We should understand the priority.

 

[TPFscopes]

I am not resisting. I am just saying that if the Russians refuse to handover technology like they did for Su30 or even the FGFA in the early times of 2014-15-16, we should not go forward and buy the planes.

I completely agree that a deal favourable to them will be needed for ToT but we should keep in Mind that we are not interested in the planes itself but the technology only. That is, if given a chance to buy only ToT we should do it. For example, if the offer is 100 planes with full ToT for 20 billion, and the cost of development of technology in India and time scale holds up, go for it. But if the offer is for same 100 planes for 4 billion, but without key ToT, then it is not worth buying. On the other hand, if the offer is for only ToT at 10-15 billion with only a single plane for demonstration, it is still worth considering.

Simply put, the only intention should be FGFA technology rather than FGFA plane. If the plane is needed for ToT, so be it. But the plane itself is not what should be sought after. We should understand the priority.

Dude, deal is still in negotiation phase.
So, take a chill pill and wait for final deal.
It is taking time because of ToT and rights negotiation.
I believe, present Government is better negotiator than corrupt Congress.
Your profile pic shows the exact nature of previous government.

 

[Pulkit]

What?

Why shouldn't we wait for our indigenous technology like AESA, BVR (already phase1 complete) to materialise?

We can wait its just the question off when we say we cannot wait any further.

The progress is reasonably fast and will not need more than 2030

lemme know once its off drawing board with everything I mean everything is fixed and there are no further changes expected from the defense forces

for completion for entire AMCA which is being made in modular manner and different parts are being made by different teams parallelly

Everything which was being dveeloped individually from Radar to engine was from the point of view of Tejas. This will be changed and will need improvements which again is time consuming

. It is Indian responsibility to make technology.

Yes it is our responsibility but we cannot be unreasonable in terms of money that needs to be spent along with the time it takes

Hence there is no need to buy Russian planes at all.

We need Planes Russian or not and when we dont have our own then even Russians are pretty good

US made 30000 nukes by 1970s atarting from 1950-55 (about 20 years).

Comparing apples with oranges

With technology much advanced now, it is not hard to. Imagine making that many nukes now too, maybe even in half the time (10 years).

Don't forget that India has 1.5lakh tons of Uranium (2% of the word supply of 70-75 lakh tons). Even if 20000 tons are extracted and put in production mode inside PHWR reactors, it is possible to get 20000+ plutonium nukes. We can definitely extract 2000 tons of uranium a year or even more. Cost is no bar as all technology is indigenous. One doesn't see costs for defence expenditure which is indigenous

Why are we then still importing Nuclear fuel?

 

[Pulkit]

I am not resisting. I am just saying that if the Russians refuse to handover technology like they did for Su30 or even the FGFA in the early times of 2014-15-16, we should not go forward and buy the planes.

In case of Su technology transfer was not part of the deal

I completely agree that a deal favourable to them will be needed for ToT but we should keep in Mind that we are not interested in the planes itself but the technology only.

We are interested in planes and the tech they bring along side.

That is, if given a chance to buy only ToT we should do it.

donno if anything like that can ever happen

For example, if the offer is 100 planes with full ToT for 20 billion, and the cost of development of technology in India and time scale holds up, go for it. But if the offer is for same 100 planes for 4 billion, but without key ToT, then it is not worth buying. On the other hand, if the offer is for only ToT at 10-15 billion with only a single plane for demonstration, it is still worth considering.

are u crazy? 10-15 billion for tech good we might save time then but we wont have any funds to use that tech ever

Simply put, the only intention should be FGFA technology rather than FGFA plane. If the plane is needed for ToT, so be it. But the plane itself is not what should be sought after. We should understand the priority.

even if we get the complete TOT it will take us not less that 10 years to create a aircraft and only then we will know how much we have absorbed.

 

[Vijyes]

We can wait its just the question off when we say we cannot wait any further. lemme know once its off drawing board with everything I mean everything is fixed and there are no further changes expected from the defense forces Everything which was being dveeloped individually from Radar to engine was from the point of view of Tejas. This will be changed and will need improvements which again is time consumingYes it is our responsibility but we cannot be unreasonable in terms of money that needs to be spent along with the time it takesWe need Planes Russian or not and when we dont have our own then even Russians are pretty goodComparing apples with orangesWhy are we then still importing Nuclear fuel?

We are importing fuel only for civilian reactors. Also, there is a reason why BJP fought against the Civil nuclear deal as being against Indian sovereignty. India actually doesn't need nuclear power in civil sector unless the plutonium is available for reprocessing. We have enough coal to produce energy. The energy the uranium can produce is negligible due to low availability. We have already used up 35% of Uranium in last 50 years producing 5% of electricity. Rest 65% will be exhausted soon. Coal produces 70% of world energy and is still in abundance. Don't give environmental bullshit. Coal is not replaceable with Uranium simply because it is not available in enough quantities.

We only need Uranium to make bombs. Period. That can't be done by imported Uranium.

 

[TPFscopes]

We have enough coal to produce energy.

Have you heard about clean energy?
None of the new coal power plants were passed in last decade.
Also , India don't have high quality coal.

 

[IndianHawk]

We are working on fast breeder reactors which can produce more fuel then they consume. With that we can recycle fuel for energy. This Will save a lot of uranium plutonium for nukes. Also we are now importing uranium freely from all around so we can store a lot of it and use domestic for bombs.

 

[Vijyes]

Have you heard about clean energy?
None of the new coal power plants were passed in last decade.
Also , India don't have high quality coal.

Have you heard of superman? Yeah, clean energy is only slightly more real. Uranium is too minute that if 100% electricity needs (excluding oil and mobility energy) are met every year with it, it will run out in 65years and even if breeder reactor is used to enhance the capacity, it will only improve it by 100% i.e 10 years. Breeder reactor till now has not exceeded 500MW capacity till now. In Russia, there are 2 breeders, 600 & 800 MW, but both run at around 25%-30% capacity. French tried 1.2GW super phoenix breeder reactor but ran it at 7% capacity for first 10 years and produced 1 unit of power at about 100 rupees. Later the capacity went upto 30% but with regular shut downs, accidents and leakage. It had to be decommissioned finally.

High quality coal is not needed for power generation. High quality coal is needed for coking Iron and graphite requirements. Power production does not require high quality coal. Any coal will do. Even liquefaction doesn't need high quality coal. The coal of South Africa is similar to Indian coal. They even liquefy it. India has enough coal to supply entire world electricity for 15 - 20 years.

Thinking of Uranium to produce anything other than bomb is not meaningful

 

[PD_Solo]

Have you heard of superman? Yeah, clean energy is only slightly more real. Uranium is too minute that if 100% electricity needs (excluding oil and mobility energy) are met every year with it, it will run out in 65years and even if breeder reactor is used to enhance the capacity, it will only improve it by 100% i.e 10 years. Breeder reactor till now has not exceeded 500MW capacity till now. In Russia, there are 2 breeders, 600 & 800 MW, but both run at around 25%-30% capacity. French tried 1.2GW super phoenix breeder reactor but ran it at 7% capacity for first 10 years and produced 1 unit of power at about 100 rupees. Later the capacity went upto 30% but with regular shut downs, accidents and leakage. It had to be decommissioned finally.

High quality coal is not needed for power generation. High quality coal is needed for coking Iron and graphite requirements. Power production does not require high quality coal. Any coal will do. Even liquefaction doesn't need high quality coal. The coal of South Africa is similar to Indian coal. They even liquefy it. India has enough coal to supply entire world electricity for 15 - 20 years.

Thinking of Uranium to produce anything other than bomb is not meaningful

Wrong thread biradar.....

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

 

[Khagesh]

In case of Su technology transfer was not part of the deal

Sorry bro, but this is significantly wrong information and presumptions.

Su tech transfer was very much there and mostly already taken place. The import content (valuewise) of Su-30MKI is only 4% more than that of LCA. And that too is only because of the fact that:

1) Su-30MKI contract is a very old contract with presumptions of those earlier times while LCA was not restricted by any foreign-contract and has evolved continuously.
2) Had India sunk even a little more money in LCA (may be just Rs. 5000-7000 crore) more than there is no reason why LCA cannot be nearly 100% indigenous. The investments in Su-30MKI infact show how much money is needed to actually make an aircraft and then manufacture it.

It is another matter that some Indians today feel that we should have gotten all of the tech for the X amount of money invested in Su-30MKI. Unfortunately things like that don't happen. There is no alternative to DIY. You can own a sexy bike and get some stupid woman to ride with you but that will never be able to replace the organic relationship that a hot-roder will have with his own machine. You have to first decide if you are in it for the pride of the ride or for the need for speed or just to be able to fuck the woman in the pillion - three different things and you cannot have all three with a third world salary.

We are interested in planes and the tech they bring along side. donno if anything like that can ever happenare u crazy? 10-15 billion for tech good we might save time then but we wont have any funds to use that tech evereven if we get the complete TOT it will take us not less that 10 years to create a aircraft and only then we will know how much we have absorbed.

No aircraft or any other piece of equipment which is properly customized can ever be completely absorbed based on a license manufacturing. India passed the stage of learning from License manufacturing about the time we made Jaguars and Mig-27s.

We already have had pieces of technologies flowing from LCA to other aircrafts and vice versa. Concurrency is today sought to be attained within a single program itself (like F-35). Concurrency across platforms is even easier. You don't need 10 years to judge if the DC-MAWS which works for Sukhoi is good for LCA. Not even for example, to understand if the CLAWs for one can be based on the other. If 10 years are being asked for to absorb then you must counter-question if the intent is to avoid having to absorb/transfer the knowhow esp. given that no foreign country today provides the harder to get IPR. If somebody asks 10 years to absorb the lower end tech which is easily on offer then may be the absorbing party is not properly resourced. Indian engineers are not gadhas.

 

[TPFscopes]

Have you heard of superman? Yeah, clean energy is only slightly more real. Uranium is too minute that if 100% electricity needs (excluding oil and mobility energy) are met every year with it, it will run out in 65years and even if breeder reactor is used to enhance the capacity, it will only improve it by 100% i.e 10 years. Breeder reactor till now has not exceeded 500MW capacity till now. In Russia, there are 2 breeders, 600 & 800 MW, but both run at around 25%-30% capacity. French tried 1.2GW super phoenix breeder reactor but ran it at 7% capacity for first 10 years and produced 1 unit of power at about 100 rupees. Later the capacity went upto 30% but with regular shut downs, accidents and leakage. It had to be decommissioned finally.

High quality coal is not needed for power generation. High quality coal is needed for coking Iron and graphite requirements. Power production does not require high quality coal. Any coal will do. Even liquefaction doesn't need high quality coal. The coal of South Africa is similar to Indian coal. They even liquefy it. India has enough coal to supply entire world electricity for 15 - 20 years.

Thinking of Uranium to produce anything other than bomb is not meaningful

I know, you are too eager to have a war.
Better quality coal gives high energy output with less residue.
If you are depressed with lower Electric power generation than please research about kundankulam Project where a single unit of 1000MW Capacity plant generates 917MW of power at ₹4.29/unit
Note: if you want further off-Topic discussions than please move to desired thread.
Also correct your knowledge about Nuclear energy as well.

Cheers