Sukhoi PAK FA

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The disagreement is on the level of ToT, do we get ToT for engine where we have not invested, we will get ToT for avionics where we did invest. So wait, for more ToT we have spend a lot more, it is upto the government to decide how much we need.
May be this part have substance.
But what's guarantee that it won't be screwdriver ToT here.

We have only invested in avionics but scientists not allowed to involve in development, pilots couldn't validate them.

Wil such ToT be usable?
IAF need new planes, by 2030 most of IAF planes would have retired and we need production of new aircraft by 2020 to avoid a sudden drop in plane numbers
Why even that delay? FGFA isn't even flying yet.
We must be buying PAK FA directly if it's so urgent.
We will have it 2020, there are only a few changes by 2030 FGFA will almost be complete
Timeline has been shifted for 2025, I read somewhere.
 

Bahamut

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Why even that delay? FGFA isn't even flying yet.
We must be buying PAK FA directly if it's so urgent.
FGFA is pak fa with Indian components to match our needs, similar to Su 30 sm and Su 30 MKI.
Timeline has been shifted for 2025, I read somewhere.
If we are ready to test the plane with present engine then after a year we will have a prototype but if we want to test it with item 30 then wait till 2020. Any way FGFA will have very little difference with Pak fa
 

AbRaj

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A)Not false, it's out in media and even you've agreed that nobody provides ToT

B)I can find that page you out.



C)FGFA is going to have similar 10-20 years timeline if goes on, will go worse than AMCA.

D)Russia is going to have great economic problems in inducting fighters for their air force, they'll look for money here, FGFA is pushed all after that.

E) Trishul Link, do it and prove me.



F)Will I start funding foreign smartphone companies in hope of getting tech and when they have plainly denied that they won't?

I will buy their final products instead.

Seriously, which logic is here,
Convo (me in red, you're in blue).
I will repeat hundreds of times, it's a scam.
A. Use you brain bro not mumbo zumbo media.
BTW any official (Russian or Indian ) link of your claim regarding TOT? BTW Some example of excellent tot in past: 1 green pine radar from Israel, 2. SA6 aka Akash missile system, 3. 3M54 aka Nirbhay,4.P800aka brahmos,4.Leopard 2 prototype=>Arjun MBT,SPECT Jaguar,and thousands of modern LRUs we are now developing from Israeli and French tech. Also not to forget our Nuclear Sub dev is heavily “assisted" by Russian scientists and some French inputs. Cryogenic engine from Ukraine.
Our entire solid state radar and jamming tech is thanks to deals by Israel.
B)That would be a good start. And please some official link not some Toilet paper of India article posted by some retired dickhead/think tank ,financed by some rival company.
C) again provide some credible evidence to support your claims.
IMO its highly preposterous to even compar a flying aircraft which is in "Limited Series Production " with some concept/paper plane which don't have confirmed design, engine, radar,EW suit ,weapons , and almost everything is not even in paper.
Do you know anything about Radar and sensors about PAK-FA or bts EW suit or the 5th armaments LRAAM developed for it? Or WWR similar to Meteor. ?
It has 360 radar coverage first for a fighter jet.? And what do you know about AMCA subsystems?? Nada.. Nothing. It's right now a khokha/Envelop with some unknown degree of stealth developed by some Newbie .
And considering the speed of dev it will never see light of the day( I wish I Will be proven wrong).
For reality check when entire world is inducting 5th gen jets(US,Israel,China) ,we are struggling to get FOC for our 3.5/4th gen Tejas.
Its hilarious comparison BTW.

D) Russia and to a greater extent USSR was always in an economic crisis like conditions since time immortal ,thanks to Western countries, but doesn't deterred them from producing innovative and state of the art weapons. Infact it forced them to be more innovative and determined.They even traded their technology for buying Rice and pulses. That's the Russia for you.
E) considering your level of misconceptions ,I will recommend you to start from as early as possible at least from 2012.
F) actually you are doing worst than it. You are financing them without demanding nothing in return so that in future you should not have to buy anymore. It may look cheap/profitable to you but its just illusion. Chinkis are not idiots when they are selling you smartphone for that price.

  • Russia won't provide us, no country gives away it's IPR easily.
  • Wrong and wrong we are not begging we are negotiating Tech for money as I explained above. Its how things work eg you provide your expertise/knowledge for salary/money
  • We are involved in FGFA JV for gaininig ToT.
  • Final product with certain technology which we don't have or lagging right now
  • They have even openly denied.
  • Provide official or at least credible evidence to back your claim.
  • No entertainment articles are considered.
  • Experience for AMCA? We are not even involved in any kind of development. Indian pilots haven't even flied PAK FA once. Our scientists don't even know what's happening there. We are just giving inputs and requirements. Isn't that enough certificate for this genuine corporation?
  • Not involved in PAK-FA and never intended to. PMF is what we are looking for.
  • Weong
  • No
  • What's point of being involved in this project? Why not fund own one?
  • Why not both. Don't worry we have money now.
  • Considering rapidly changing geopolitical scenario in Asia and world we need a good fighter to tackle possible threats of J20 and others.
  • And No ,our govt and Armed forces don't believe in your prophecies.
  • Paks & Chinks are standing on our heads with guns.
  • True
  • Even FGFA isn't anywhere near realization, leave alone induction. So, scared of war? By components of AMCA or directly PAK FA from Russia.
  • Check official status of PAK-FA in Sukhoi and Russian AF website. Not in Manorama magazine
  • Its in limited production.
  • No, FGFA will give us experience.
  • ???, we are getting tech+ final product
  • Which experience? Not even watching what's the status. The development from Indian side includes negotiation table for prize and timeline only. Working with them is distant, have you ever seen an Indian scientist or pilot with them? You also said that they won't give us ToT. No point in paying such huge amount then
  • Arguments based of prophecy is better be ignored.
 

gadeshi

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Seriously ...decade?
China has two birds flying over tibet region region.
Even in worst case china decided to donate few 5-6 birds there will be power shift.
Of course not on large scall but its enough to create havoc in New Delhi.
Actually they said 2022 now they say 2025 ...after 3 years they will extend 2030 and then news will come out deal is scrapped.
I bet you the day AMCA inducted into IAF (let us say)..tab tak mera shaadi bhi hojayega aur do bache bhi honge .

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk
Well, you can always make like China - build something of questionable abilities (and even concept), make it fly wherever you want and tell the others you have 6 Gen aircrafts buying Su-35SK at the same time :)
 
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gadeshi

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Russia announces deepest defence budget cuts since 1990s
Craig Caffrey, London
- IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
16 March 2017


Figures released by the Russian Federal Treasury have confirmed that Russia's defence budget has been cut by 25.5% for 2017, falling from RUB3.8 trillion (USD65.4 billion) to RUB2.8 trillion.

The reduction represents the largest cut to military expenditure in the country since the early 1990s.

The reduction follows an extended period of large increases to Russian defence spending with growth having achieved an average rate of 19.8% a year since 2011 in nominal terms. Despite the cut, the 2017 budget will remain about 14.4% higher than the level of defence spending seen in 2014 in nominal terms.

The Russian government initially outlined plans to reduce defence expenditure in the draft of the three year budget for 2017 to 2019 released in October 2016.

http://www.janes.com/article/68766/russia-announces-deepest-defence-budget-cuts-since-1990s

HUGE 25% cut in defence expenditure by Russia.

Now the question is would Russia be able to complete PAKFA on time or not and could we get FGFA on time or not?
And can Russia let go Indian funds and participation in it PakFa & FGFA development?
These are just liberal (pro-US) lobby in Russian Govt plans which were rejected by President, MOD and Parliament. Don't mention them much.
Strategic projects like PAK FA are financed from the separate funds that are not under Finance Min. control, so they roar seeng those money and cannot steal them and transfer to West :)
 

gadeshi

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T-50-1 (1-01) the first PAK FA flight prototype continues flight evelope enhancement trials in LII flight test institute in Zhukovskiy:


And some T-50-8 (1-08) Stage 2 airframe and FCS testbed into this thread:


 

Indx TechStyle

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OT-2: The frustration of many people toward India R&D or manufacturing capability is, to me, understandable. I mean all those schedules (promises) you listed for AMCA actually had been heard (again, again, and again) in previous notorious cases. I'm NOT saying anyone is lying, just history had NOT provided creditability in this front.
Well, if we take historical aspects, we are bad at our first attempts while do it good at following one. From timeline to quality.
That's all.
How will AMCA project complete before starting?
"Are we ready for several years low-profile attitude? So, boys, stop crying for war with China all days [at least by the time AMCA + MIC is successful!!]",
Thing to be noted here is that both AMCA and FGFA are scheduled for same timeline.

The one plane can't define direction of a war either.
FGFA is pak fa with Indian components to match our needs, similar to Su 30 sm and Su 30 MKI.

If we are ready to test the plane with present engine then after a year we will have a prototype but if we want to test it with item 30 then wait till 2020. Any way FGFA will have very little difference with Pak fa
Any info about which sort of avionics we are getting?
If true and an argument to run PMF further, we must getting whatever developed from our side sooner than that fighter too for our plane.
A. Use you brain bro not mumbo zumbo media.
Never went to media, it's my opinion since start.
The only logic being given here is "please trust Russia" when things haven't moved an inch.
BTW any official (Russian or Indian ) link of your claim regarding TOT?
No Russian/Indian Source exists saying that Russia will give us complete ToT.

No source even is there in public domain that Indian Scientists or crews were ever involved here.
Edit: don't forget to read the ToT part @Abraj.
BTW Some example of excellent tot in past: 1 green pine radar from Israel,
Israeli, not Russian.
Second, we got the derivative.
2. SA6 aka Akash missile system,

3. 3M54 aka Nirbhay,4.P800aka brahmos,
??
4.Leopard 2 prototype=>Arjun MBT,
Design, Arjun project is still stuck.
SPECT Jaguar,and thousands of modern LRUs we are now developing from Israeli and French tech.

Also not to forget our Nuclear Sub dev is heavily “assisted" by Russian scientists and some French inputs.
First, stop bringing other countries except Russia.
Nuclear material was imported earlier because we had no reactor back then.
Cryogenic engine from Ukraine.
:doh::doh::doh::doh:
Could Ukraine itself make engine?:lol:

You are referring to the Indo-Ukraine agreement of 2005 which involved sharing of design blueprints for the semi-cryo (LOX-Liquid kerosne) engine being developed at LPSC.
Also given the MTCR restrictions (which we were not a member of then), the transfer stipulations appear to be very strict, if Wikileaks are anything to go by.
the contract was for delivery of blueprints for the rocket engine that ISRO would use to build its own engine; Ukrainian companies simply did not have the capability actually to construct the engine themselves. He stressed that the information would allow ISRO to build only one model of engine and reiterated the point that Yuzhnoye would not provide any engineering or technical details on how the plans had been developed.
and also this
the contract does not foresee the delivering to the Indian Side the calculation methods used during the engine development and the appropriate software.
Our entire solid state radar and jamming tech is thanks to deals by Israel.
Not entire, India still provides half of critical components and funding.
India's partnership with Israel is totally distinct from Russia.

Anyway,
I'm done with you man. Some random Russian, Ukrainian or western kid makes ID on IDF and tells you that he is responsible for whatever you have, he gave you ToT.. You simply believe him without research.:biggrin2:
India produces around 90 out of 94 missile technologies.


Come on go ahead, declare this all fake.
Russians are angles man!:bounce:
Agni, AAD, PAD, PDV, our all LVs, aircraft parts we manufacture (which we actually export to these countries), warships, sats, semiconductors, everything is result of ToT.
B)That would be a good start. And please some official link not some Toilet paper of India article posted by some retired dickhead/think tank ,financed by some rival company.
Provide me a single official or even unofficial link of any kind of Indian involvement here now.

Not agreement but what happened after it.

Keep sitting here apart from project dreaming of ToT.
C) again provide some credible evidence to support your claims.
IMO its highly preposterous to even compar a flying aircraft which is in "Limited Series Production " with some concept/paper plane which don't have confirmed design, engine, radar,EW suit ,weapons , and almost everything is not even in paper.
Is FGFA flying there?
Do you know anything about Radar and sensors about PAK-FA or bts EW suit or the 5th armaments LRAAM developed for it? Or WWR similar to Meteor. ?
It has 360 radar coverage first for a fighter jet.? And what do you know about AMCA subsystems?? Nada.. Nothing. It's right now a khokha/Envelop with some unknown degree of stealth developed by some Newbie .
My intelligent friend, AMCA and FGFA are for different roles at first place.
It's more comparable to J-31 rather than J-20.

Second,
AMCA is in developmental design phase, the final phase of development before making prototypes.
But FGFA? What's the status in details?
And considering the speed of dev it will never see light of the day( I wish I Will be proven wrong).
We can see what happens to speed of dev at second attempt.
Second, we are very well aware of FGFA speed as well. A new timeline every year.
For reality check when entire world is inducting 5th gen jets(US,Israel,China) ,we are struggling to get FOC for our 3.5/4th gen Tejas.
First, three countries don't represent entire club or even complete group of great powers.
Second, nobody is refraining from making stealth fighter but stuck in a deal without output.
Its hilarious comparison BTW.
Off course hilarious, because FGFA isn't even a decade near induction and you are comparing it with other fighters.:pound:
D) Russia and to a greater extent USSR was always in an economic crisis like conditions since time immortal ,thanks to Western countries, but doesn't deterred them from producing innovative and state of the art weapons. Infact it forced them to be more innovative and determined.They even traded their technology for buying Rice and pulses. That's the Russia for you.
And we have you on other hand who just want to push entire pie in Russia's favour at any cost.
E) considering your level of misconceptions ,I will recommend you to start from as early as possible at least from 2012.
Let's have a bigger warp.
We started mki project in 90s and now in 2017 we are going to sign a contract to directly buy spares from Russian companies :bounce:if that doesn't open eyes nothing will .
F) actually you are doing worst than it. You are financing them without demanding nothing in return so that in future you should not have to buy anymore. It may look cheap/profitable to you but its just illusion. Chinkis are not idiots when they are selling you smartphone for that price.
This isn't called financing for R&D.
I'm not setting up plants & labs there but trying for own country, instead of lifting that money also too them. I'm not throwing chests of cash & overprize at them.

You will get the device at least for using unlike FGFA case where you are financing also and not even getting ready product.
Wrong and wrong we are not begging we are negotiating Tech for money as I explained above. Its how things work eg you provide your expertise/knowledge for salary/money
We haven't been involved there anyhow at least till now.
Keep making prophecies and get the screwdriver ToT aka assembly like again.
Final product with certain technology which we don't have or lagging right now
Not even for validation.
Provide official or at least credible evidence to back your claim.
There is no statement from Russian MoD or foreign ministry from transferring tech.

Indian government is asking for it.
No entertainment articles are considered.
That's why I didn't even bother to put.
Anything against FGFA is entertainment for you.
Not involved in PAK-FA and never intended to. PMF is what we are looking for.
Means confirmed that we aren't involved.
Where is PMF?? Not in sight at least.

Had the PAK FA as the base which we can't fly. So, can't even give inputs on platform.
:clap2:
This has become a circus.
Why not both. Don't worry we have money now.
Not really, India's budget may be $700 billions but it spends a very little portion of it on defence.
Considering rapidly changing geopolitical scenario in Asia and world we need a good fighter to tackle possible threats of J20 and others.
When?? 15 years - 2 decades later.

Do you know that when China declined invitation for involvement in PAK FA and came up with own one a decade later.


China this China that, you will sell Indian Military showing your China sticker.:china:

I'm warning seriously, don't pull it again here.
And No ,our govt and Armed forces don't believe in your prophecies.
Oh! Probably that's the reason for statement. Wait, the news was fake by an evil jealous rival company (aka MoD).:D
Paks & Chinks are standing on our heads with guns.
True
Still ready for remaining with a project whose timeline is being pushed up every year faster than inflation.
Check official status of PAK-FA in Sukhoi and Russian AF website. Not in Manorama magazine
Its in limited production.
We're talkin about PMF, not PAK FA.
???, we are getting tech+ final product
This is called baseless prophecy now.
Sleep tight and dream of getting ToT of a plane which they haven't let you touch till now.:biggrin2:

Also, do you have any source that they agreed to give us tech??
Arguments based of prophecy is better be ignored.
Prophecy?
Read that statement again.
It's about what happened and.what's happening.
 

Bahamut

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Any info about which sort of avionics we are getting?
If true and an argument to run PMF further, we must getting whatever developed from our side sooner than that fighter too for our plane.
The ability to fire Bhramos and other Indian origin weapons system along with western and Israeli .Domestics or Israeli jammer will be added instead of Russian ones to increase commonality . Also Glonass with supplemented or replace by Indian Equivalent .A new data link system to enable communication with India forces .Maybe French HMD will be used alone with Targeting pods brought for Rafale will replace Russian equivalent .It depends on performances of the Russian system and the cost
 

TPFscopes

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Russia Designs 'Friend-or-Foe' Stealth Recognition System for PAK FA Advanced fighter Jets

PAK-FA PRODUCTION : Russia’s SUKHOI T-50 fifthgeneration fighter jets will begin in 2017
 

AbRaj

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Well, if we take historical aspects, we are bad at our first attempts while do it good at following one. From timeline to quality.
That's all.
How will AMCA project complete before starting?

Thing to be noted here is that both AMCA and FGFA are scheduled for same timeline.

The one plane can't define direction of a war either.

Any info about which sort of avionics we are getting?
If true and an argument to run PMF further, we must getting whatever developed from our side sooner than that fighter too for our plane.

Never went to media, it's my opinion since start.
The only logic being given here is "please trust Russia" when things haven't moved an inch.

No Russian/Indian Source exists saying that Russia will give us complete ToT.

No source even is there in public domain that Indian Scientists or crews were ever involved here.
Edit: don't forget to read the ToT part @Abraj.

Israeli, not Russian.
Second, we got the derivative.

??

Design, Arjun project is still stuck.

First, stop bringing other countries except Russia.
Nuclear material was imported earlier because we had no reactor back then.

:doh::doh::doh::doh:
Could Ukraine itself make engine?:lol:

You are referring to the Indo-Ukraine agreement of 2005 which involved sharing of design blueprints for the semi-cryo (LOX-Liquid kerosne) engine being developed at LPSC.
Also given the MTCR restrictions (which we were not a member of then), the transfer stipulations appear to be very strict, if Wikileaks are anything to go by.
and also this


Not entire, India still provides half of critical components and funding.
India's partnership with Israel is totally distinct from Russia.

Anyway,
I'm done with you man. Some random Russian, Ukrainian or western kid makes ID on IDF and tells you that he is responsible for whatever you have, he gave you ToT.. You simply believe him without research.:biggrin2:
India produces around 90 out of 94 missile technologies.


Come on go ahead, declare this all fake.
Russians are angles man!:bounce:
Agni, AAD, PAD, PDV, our all LVs, aircraft parts we manufacture (which we actually export to these countries), warships, sats, semiconductors, everything is result of ToT.

Provide me a single official or even unofficial link of any kind of Indian involvement here now.

Not agreement but what happened after it.

Keep sitting here apart from project dreaming of ToT.

Is FGFA flying there?

My intelligent friend, AMCA and FGFA are for different roles at first place.
It's more comparable to J-31 rather than J-20.

Second,
AMCA is in developmental design phase, the final phase of development before making prototypes.
But FGFA? What's the status in details?

We can see what happens to speed of dev at second attempt.
Second, we are very well aware of FGFA speed as well. A new timeline every year.

First, three countries don't represent entire club or even complete group of great powers.
Second, nobody is refraining from making stealth fighter but stuck in a deal without output.

Off course hilarious, because FGFA isn't even a decade near induction and you are comparing it with other fighters.:pound:

And we have you on other hand who just want to push entire pie in Russia's favour at any cost.

Let's have a bigger warp.
We started mki project in 90s and now in 2017 we are going to sign a contract to directly buy spares from Russian companies :bounce:if that doesn't open eyes nothing will .

This isn't called financing for R&D.
I'm not setting up plants & labs there but trying for own country, instead of lifting that money also too them. I'm not throwing chests of cash & overprize at them.

You will get the device at least for using unlike FGFA case where you are financing also and not even getting ready product.

We haven't been involved there anyhow at least till now.
Keep making prophecies and get the screwdriver ToT aka assembly like again.

Not even for validation.

There is no statement from Russian MoD or foreign ministry from transferring tech.

Indian government is asking for it.

That's why I didn't even bother to put.
Anything against FGFA is entertainment for you.

Means confirmed that we aren't involved.
Where is PMF?? Not in sight at least.

Had the PAK FA as the base which we can't fly. So, can't even give inputs on platform.
:clap2:
This has become a circus.

Not really, India's budget may be $700 billions but it spends a very little portion of it on defence.

When?? 15 years - 2 decades later.

Do you know that when China declined invitation for involvement in PAK FA and came up with own one a decade later.


China this China that, you will sell Indian Military showing your China sticker.:china:

I'm warning seriously, don't pull it again here.

Oh! Probably that's the reason for statement. Wait, the news was fake by an evil jealous rival company (aka MoD).:D

Still ready for remaining with a project whose timeline is being pushed up every year faster than inflation.

We're talkin about PMF, not PAK FA.

This is called baseless prophecy now.
Sleep tight and dream of getting ToT of a plane which they haven't let you touch till now.:biggrin2:

Also, do you have any source that they agreed to give us tech??

Prophecy?
Read that statement again.
It's about what happened and.what's happening.
So... You have nothing concrete except for some “prophacy” and “Russia Evil Syndrome ”
@gadeshi kindly educate our fellow about
PAK-FA and PMF . for some orientation I insist you to watch/read recent interview of our air chief. He has explained about some of you're doubt. regarding PAKFA and PMF.
For noobs PAK-FA=PMF prototype
PMF is now nothing more than MKI version of Su-27 (upg) or Su-30. And its not much of a task and work can be started as soon as contract is signed ( and for fucks sake don't blame Russia for delay in signing)
In another way PMF prototype is already flying and is ready for transfer to HAL/ADA as soon as Indian govt sign the contract.

AMCA is No J31 either. J31 is flying since decades. Where is AMCA. In your head??
PS: FGFA is a generic term for Fifth Gen Fighter Aircraft.
Its not some particular aircraft. AMCA is also supposed to be a FGFA
 
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Indx TechStyle

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So... You have nothing concrete except for some “prophacy” and “Russia Evil Syndrome ”
Which prophecy, it's all what has happened.
You are still assembling Su30MkI on name of assembly and buying spares from Russian firms. Ghanta ToT.
@gadeshi kindly educate our fellow about
PAK-FA and PMF . for some orientation I insist you to watch/read recent interview of our air chief. He has explained about some of you're doubt. regarding PAKFA and PMF.
Never questioned about capabilities (though I have some), my issue is about procurement.
For noobs PAK-FA=PMF prototype
PMF is now nothing more than MKI version of Su-27 (upg) or Su-30. And its not much of a task and work can be started as soon as contract is signed ( and for fucks sale don't blame Russia for delay in signing)
In another way PMF prototype is already flying and is ready for transfer to HAL/ADA as soon as Indian govt sign the contract.
:facepalm:
AMCA is No J31 either. J31 is flying since decades. Where is AMCA. In your head??
I'm talking about role. For statement which compared AMCA with PAK FA/PMF.

AMCA concept is for a multirole fighter of medium category like J31, while PAK FA is a heavy category air superiority fighter like F-22 & J-20.
Its not some particular aircraft. AMCA is also supposed to be a FGFA
FGFA has become very usual abbreviation for PMF, more than PMF itself.
Don't believe me? Search anywhere you want.

By the way,
J31 is flying since decades.
Thanks for telling me, never knew that.
:biggrin2:
Bhai thanda pani aur soch ke likh.
First declared India's own projects and JV's where Indian contribution was more than good as ToTs
And now you are flying J-31 before China's third generation fighters.
 

AbRaj

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Which prophecy, it's all what has happened.
You are still assembling Su30MkI on name of assembly and buying spares from Russian firms. Ghanta ToT.

Never questioned about capabilities (though I have some), my issue is about procurement.

:facepalm:

I'm talking about role. For statement which compared AMCA with PAK FA/PMF.

AMCA concept is for a multirole fighter of medium category like J31, while PAK FA is a heavy category air superiority fighter like F-22 & J-20.

FGFA has become very usual abbreviation for PMF, more than PMF itself.
Don't believe me? Search anywhere you want.

By the way,

Thanks for telling me, never knew that.
:biggrin2:
Bhai thanda pani aur soch ke likh.
First declared India's own projects and JV's where Indian contribution was more than good as ToTs
And now you are flying J-31 before China's third generation fighters.
Google baba with all his tentacles are not my way of finding genuine information.
TOT is what we India is in discussion with Russia right now. Like Of what,how much etc.

BTW who told you that Participation in project is essential for Tech transfer.??
 

gadeshi

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So... You have nothing concrete except for some “prophacy” and “Russia Evil Syndrome ”
@gadeshi kindly educate our fellow about
PAK-FA and PMF . for some orientation I insist you to watch/read recent interview of our air chief. He has explained about some of you're doubt. regarding PAKFA and PMF.
For noobs PAK-FA=PMF prototype
PMF is now nothing more than MKI version of Su-27 (upg) or Su-30. And its not much of a task and work can be started as soon as contract is signed ( and for fucks sake don't blame Russia for delay in signing)
In another way PMF prototype is already flying and is ready for transfer to HAL/ADA as soon as Indian govt sign the contract.

AMCA is No J31 either. J31 is flying since decades. Where is AMCA. In your head??
PS: FGFA is a generic term for Fifth Gen Fighter Aircraft.
Its not some particular aircraft. AMCA is also supposed to be a FGFA
Can I avoid repeating such a TREMENDOUS amount of info? :)
 

gadeshi

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Definitely you have this option. I would also like to follow you in future:biggrin2:
All who is interested in the subject can just review this topic from the start.
I will add and augment it as much detailed and often as I can.
 

Indx TechStyle

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TOT is what we India is in discussion with Russia right now.
That's the problem, we came on discussion table right now only. When government has asked for ToT. Otherwise, it was being other Su30 MkI.
BTW who told you that Participation in project is essential for Tech transfer.??
Not only essential it's necessary.

What's your job? If you have ever worked for high end techs for some MNC or government, you will know.

You will also realize that why I'm saying that only assembly line is transferred without direct involvement.

Your proud friend was involved in indigenous torpedo launcher.:D
 

SanjeevM

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Is it possible that in case TOT is difficult to come, we define techs we need to develop and hire people from abroad to build them for us? These can be ex-employees of these manufacturers. We can open R&D centers abroad in such countries and employing their talents and including our engineers/scientists and gain knowledge? We will develop our own technology and develop resources for use in future projects? Can we explore private sector to build some of the technology for us? Tata, Mahindra, L&T and others may have their contacts to exploit. Instead of letting PSUs alone work, we can avoid red tape by involving pvt sector.

We are talking about war with Pakistan and China which isn't happening as both countries knows Indians nuclear deterrence. As China took time to develop own tech, we can take time to develop our own. Fear of war should not be propagated. It may derail is from indigenous development and production. It will be long giving up to the propaganda of foreign arm vendors in buying their equipment or investing in Russia for R&D without actual capabilities to build upon them in future.

Compare India from 1990s and early 2000 years and look at the distance we have covered and matured in certain technologies, I believe it's like giving up before the last mile. Our IA is already inclined to imported materials. If we give up now, we can never dream of becoming a super power. It's like a last mile. We need to have faith in our scientists and present government.

I like the idea of buying some equipment outright for immediate need. Rather than investing in Russia for R&D without tangible gains, we should be investing that money in development of private R&D. Money invested in Russia will be beyond the scope of audits. We may not know if it's actually going in that project or financing 10 different Russian projects of which we may not have any idea.

If Russia agree to our demand of certain technologies we are seeking, it's worth to go with them on lines of Brahmos. After all it's tax payers money and we can't finance Russian other expenditure without tangible technology we need.(my 2 cents)
 

AbRaj

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That's the problem, we came on discussion table right now only. When government has asked for ToT. Otherwise, it was being other Su30 MkI.

Not only essential it's necessary.

What's your job? If you have ever worked for high end techs for some MNC or government, you will know.

You will also realize that why I'm saying that only assembly line is transferred without direct involvement.

Your proud friend was involved in indigenous torpedo launcher.:D
Oh boy, some genius you are.
There was no involvement in Dev of Green pine or Kalibr, or onyx, when we got TOT.
Of course we modified and developed them there after.

Really......!!!:india2:
 

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