Sukhoi PAK FA

p2prada

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Even the Russians are saying their military industrial complex has deteriorated to the point that they are going to have problems manfacturing the T50 to the standards required and we know what India has went through with the HAL Tejas Jet Fighter for 20 years, even ended up buyng the engines from the USA.
Russian standards on manufacturing is yet to be seen for the PAKFA. No need to speculate, we are quite happy with the MKI, thank you.

Tejas was designed to have with American engines. F-404s as the interim engine was decided back in 1985. Anyway the design house that made LCA is nowhere involved in the PAKFA project. It's like blaming LM for Boeing's mistakes.

OF course the PAK-FA is not even scheduled to be inducted in to the IAF until 2022., if its on schedule, which wouold be a miracle of all times. ,
Way better than how long the F-35 is taking, isn't it? A two year delay is nothing as compared to that. Russia will have their version inducted in 2015.

even manned military combat aircraft might be obsolete by then.
There will be no unmanned fighters until 2030-40. The only program confirmed as of today is the American FA-XX and it is a 5th 6th gen hybrid and will be ready only in 2030.

Old USA saying, you cant make a silk purse out of a sows (pigs) ear.
Good thing it does not apply to the PAKFA program.
 

Drsomnath999

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I GOT SOME INTERESTING ANALYSIS DONE BY A MEMBER ON KEY PUB ,I THOUGHT I SHOULD ALSO POST IT HERE

Changes on the GTDE turbine starters doors on the T-50 first two prototypes














COURTESY:
martinez
THANK U FOR THE PICS MATE
 
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average american

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The Russians have been working on stealth before F-22 too. Mig-MFI and Su-47 were tech demonstrators for PAKFA while Su-35 was a test bed for 5th gen avionics.

All those kill ratios are good but achieved against previous generation fighters. Meaning the 6 day war did not see Fulcrums or Flankers participating. You can say a F-15 can kill 7 F-4s for every loss. There were a few old Fulcrums in Serbia and Iraq which were the first export versions compared to the USAF's modernized teens. The generational gap alone was huge, apart from training, weapons and tactics.

A lot of the American budget goes into salaries, compared to countries like India, China or Russia. As a matter of fact, China will be able to maintain a much larger military than the US military at half the budget in a few more years. So, PPP matters too. My friend gets paid a stipend of $5500 a month in the US and he is only a MS graduate. The senior most scientist in India gets paid around $1500 with today's exchange rate of 57. So, my friend would fall in the $750 a month bracket here.

In R&D terms, Russia cannot keep up with the US, it is impossible for any country presently. But Russia can spend on the most important capital systems in a similar fashion as the US. The F-22 took $20Billion to develop until the first aircraft was delivered, and around $50Billion to induct. PAKFA's budget is $11Billion as of today and India's procurement budget alone is estimated to be $25-30Billion not including Russian and export sales. So, the program is not particularly far behind the F-22 program in terms of money spent since PAKFA is also riding on the MiG-MFI and Berkut programs. That and the PPP advantage that Russia and India have.
From what I seen the differances in pay for engineers in the field of electronics engineers in the US and India are not that much differance, and thats where the future lies in modern warfare, I am not sure of my data, how about giving me an idea of the pay scale in India vs USA. there are not going to be any minium wage jobs working on a PAK FA.
 

average american

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Russian standards on manufacturing is yet to be seen for the PAKFA. No need to speculate, we are quite happy with the MKI, thank you.

Tejas was designed to have with American engines. F-404s as the interim engine was decided back in 1985. Anyway the design house that made LCA is nowhere involved in the PAKFA project. It's like blaming LM for Boeing's mistakes.



Way better than how long the F-35 is taking, isn't it? A two year delay is nothing as compared to that. Russia will have their version inducted in 2015.



There will be no unmanned fighters until 2030-40. The only program confirmed as of today is the American FA-XX and it is a 5th 6th gen hybrid and will be ready only in 2030.



Good thing it does not apply to the PAKFA program.
Are you sure about Combat drones being delayed until 2030.
Navy's X-47B Stealthy Combat Drone Makes First Flight

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2011/02/06/n...ombat-drone-makes-first-flight/#ixzz24rKofrSl
Defense.org

Artificial intelligence programs have been developed to take over until the pilot can recover in the F22 and F35. However, the continuing development of airframes and engines will soon pass beyond the ability of any human to tolerate. By 2020 the US will have combat stealthy air superiorty drones that can handle up to 50 Gs.
 
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Drsomnath999

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Russian fighter jet T-50 will protect from the "freezing"


Ministry of Industry industrial technology needed to create electronic filling for fifth-generation fighter PAK-FA (T-50). For the development of integrated modular avionics (IMA) combat systems department is ready to pay almost 68 million. Requires the development of data-processing modules that are responsible for the implementation of most processes, aircraft navigation, on-screen display, navigation, and many others - with the exception of the primitive sort of conditioning and landing gear.

In fact, the PAK FA is ready, the first batch of aircraft should, according to the plans of the Ministry of Defense, to get off the assembly line in 2015. Three prototype cars are undergoing flight test program. Therefore the Ministry of Industry is required industrial technology of thin avionics.

Most of the information about the characteristics of the T-50 is kept secret, it is known only that the aircraft meets the fighter of the fifth generation: developing a supersonic speed without afterburner turn, has a low radar visibility, maneuvers with significant loads.

According to the tender documents, the main objective of the project - to move from classical multimachine computer system to an integrated under the concept of IMA.

- A rejection of the system in which each individual task solves a single machine. Embedded systems, where many tasks can be executed on a single processor, - explained the "News" Konstantin Egorov, modular avionics specialist, head of the laboratory at the Research Institute of Aviation Systems.

Yegorov said that the technology is being promoted in the civil aviation, and, obviously, should be present in a military aircraft. IMA is less expensive than the conventional system, and thus may provide better performance. Each process gets a priority level, the most critical run first, so the system is protected from "freezing."

If the transition to the IMA does not happen in the T-50, it will affect the entire industry, because the creation of the fighter - one of the main incentives for the development of military-industrial complex of Russia, stated in the tender documentation. Global aviation industry has been transferred to a new integrated avionics system for more than ten years ago.

- Preservation of the classical scheme will increase the gap from the world of practice and finally make the domestic aviation industry uncompetitive - the authors predict that the terms of reference.

- This is a critical step forward for the Russian avionics - agrees expert in defense research, a senior fellow Ilya Klabukov MIPT. - From the point of view of improving military equipment and improve the country's defense program claimed no objection.

The specialists are advised to pay attention to the technical requirements for systems to be developed for the fighter. According to them, the equipment with the stated performance is unlikely to provide the technological superiority of Russia.

- The approach to its design is similar to both the designer and the Lego obsession to catch up with Lockheed Martin (a company specializing in the field of aviation. - "News"), and not on the technology of military superiority, - complains Klabukov. - As the basis for a system of standards is taken and the American Association of ARINC VITA, as if not designed avionics for the PAK FA, and for export Sukhoi Superjet.

Klabukov assumes onboard digital computer will
collected from refined CPUs development of JSC "MCST". In his view, the domestic circuit quite well for military equipment needed for the fighter class products military and space, where reliability is important. Even if you want to use chips from overseas that idea did not work out would be for this, Russia would have to either join, or seize equipment fraudulently. It is unlikely that any of the leading manufacturers of this equipment will sell Russia chip construction fighter.

Google Translate
 

p2prada

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I wonder if the Russians plan on using carbon nanotubes based fibre mat like on the F-35 instead of regular RAM coating.

Maybe not.
 

p2prada

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Are you sure about Combat drones being delayed until 2030.
Navy's X-47B Stealthy Combat Drone Makes First Flight

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2011/02/06/n...ombat-drone-makes-first-flight/#ixzz24rKofrSl
Defense.org

Artificial intelligence programs have been developed to take over until the pilot can recover in the F22 and F35. However, the continuing development of airframes and engines will soon pass beyond the ability of any human to tolerate.
That's great. But you forgot to mention that these UCAVs will do nothing more than bombing stuff. Nothing to do with air to air.

It can carry 2 tons and fly at Mach 0.4 as of today and is only a tech demonstrator. An unmanned combat drone at the level of a F-22 is still 30 years away. France is thinking of one after 2040.

Btw, we have a program called AURA too.
India quietly begins combat drone project - Times Of India

It is at the same level as the X-47B.

Google MiG Skat, Dassault Neuron and EADS Barracuda.

By 2020 the US will have combat stealthy air superiorty drones that can handle up to 50 Gs.
You will be lucky to have the F-35 inducted by 2020,

let alone a UCAV that does 50G :dude: which is rather pointless.

So, it is true,

The Constitution gives every American the inalienable right to make a damn fool of himself.
 

p2prada

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Austin

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Well he says if i got that translation right he says the new engine will have the highest T/W ratio of any existing engine.

PiBu in his Article in Air International recently mentioned that the Thrust of new engine will be in the range of 18T

The current engine 117 too is underrated in some ways it has a T/W ratio of 10.5 :1

The 117 engine is 150 kg lighter compared to AL-31FP and has a Thrust of 15T
 

p2prada

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Yeah. I have seen thrust ratings between 17.5 tons and 18 tons in different articles.

The F-135 weighs around 1700Kg compared to 1400Kg on 117. So, if the Type 30 manages 18 tons on a 1550Kg engine that will bring it to F-135s level. If they are talking of a higher T/W then it should be lesser than 1550Kg. Pretty interesting.

The F-136 is unknown but they were hoping for a 184KN engine. That will keep it below the F-135 though.
 

average american

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Can the Dead Rise Again

At one time the USSR/Russia made pretty good fighter aircraft, not as good as the american, but good enough and cheap enough to convince world countries to buy them even though they crashed a lot and got shot down three times out of four when they went up against American Planes.

The Question is Can Russia do it on their own.

President Dmitry Medvedev explained last February that Russia needs to catch up to NATO and the U.S., after two decades of being treated like a third-rate power. "The attempts to enlarge NATO's military infrastructure are not ceasing," he said. "All this calls for qualitatively modernizing our armed forces and reshaping their image. . . we need comprehensive rearmament."

Vitaly Shlykov, a former Soviet war planner and ex-deputy defense minister of Russia. " Russia has de-industrialized. It's basically a third world country that lives by oil extraction today. This rearmament program is a political campaign, to make Putin proud. The T-50 is essentially a political gadget." in part funded by India.

So far, the T-50 has struggled. When one of the two existing prototypes was rolled out for Putin and other officials at Moscow's MAKS airshow in August, 2011, it appeared able to perform only a slow flyby and a few sedate rolls. The next day, when the plane was supposed to be shown to the public, it suffered a flame-out on take off and had to be grounded for the duration of the show.

Some experts are beginning to suspect that the T-50, which is being developed with India as junior partner, may not be all it's cracked up to be.

"Just because they show it publicly doesn't mean we know what's under the hood," says Alexander Golts, a military expert with the online newspaper Yezhednevny Zhurnal.

"We don't even know basic facts about it, such as, does it have new engines or old ones? When we ask questions, they say 'that's top secret,'" he says.

Fewer than half of Russia's former Soviet military industries are still operating. Virtually none of the old sub-contractors are churning out the multitude of perfect small parts and components that are necessary for assembling a complicated weapons system.

That means every part that goes into a Russian fighter plane these days has to be produced in-house, an exhaustive, time-consuming and exorbitantly expensive process, says Pavel Felgenhauer, a military expert with the opposition Novaya Gazeta newspaper in Moscow.

"Worse than that, there's a huge technological gap between Russian and Western industry," he says
 
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GromHellscream

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:ranger:
There are differences in the method to calculate t/w ratio among US, Soviet/Russia and even France.
For the same engine, the t/w ratio calculated out in different standards is always France < US < Russia.
 

p2prada

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:ranger:
There are differences in the method to calculate t/w ratio among US, Soviet/Russia and even France.
For the same engine, the t/w ratio calculated out in different standards is always France < US < Russia.
There is only one way for all countries. Max thrust divided by dry weight.
 

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