Sukhoi PAK FA

[devil510]

You see, the FGFA program will come with the how and the why too. This definitely helps the industry a lot more than something like the Rafale.

So, nobody can deny the ToT will be lesser than MKI, which alone is significant. Russian-Indian relationship has never been better if they are so willing to share data.

what do u mean to say that russia and indian relationship s getting better

 

[p2prada]

what do u mean to say that russia and indian relationship s getting better

We have really top of the line defence contracts with them. That's what our relationship has always been about, defence.

Earlier we were in a buyer-seller relationship. Now we have the largest number of defence contracts with them and they include a lot of JVs. The last count was 200 projects out of which one is FGFA. Then there are ships, nuclear submarines, aircraft, satellites, missiles, tanks etc. Meaning all are very big, strategic projects.

The number of regular contracts and JVs will progressively increase to much higher levels over time. More importantly, this relationship will soon go the other way too where India will export Brahmos missiles to Russia and launch Russian GLONASS satellites after GSLV is ready.

Politically too, Russia is getting more serious in assisting us to gain entry into Central Asia using a military base in Tajikistan. Meaning we are to get an air base on the western border of China and the northern border of both Pakistan and Afghanistan. The base will be protected by a Russian division of troops. They are working towards allowing us into the Shanghai Cooperation Organization for our energy security. China is causing problems though.

Economically, we already own oil blocks in East Russia and will be buying more in sometime. It is yet unknown if we will have any major joint contracts for exploration and export of oil in and around the Pacific rim.

 

[devil510]

i don't mind russia india relation but indian govt are moving closer to U.S. which U.S. wants to destroy india who has never been india's friend

 

[p2prada]

i don't mind russia india relation but indian govt are moving closer to U.S. which U.S. wants to destroy india who has never been india's friend

The strategic and economic gains are different from what Russia can provide. So, no issue for us in being close to both countries.

US won't be destroying anything here. They have been trying that since the last 60 years and decided to join us after they failed.

 

[noob101]

i don't mind russia india relation but indian govt are moving closer to U.S. which U.S. wants to destroy india who has never been india's friend

have to elaborate ... can't just make a statement like that and just leave it....

 

[devil510]

have to elaborate ... can't just make a statement like that and just leave it....

I am looking at U.S. - Pakistan friendhip it has gotten them nowhere, also they will sell tech to both of U.S. while we kill each other they enjoy
2nd i am looking at the checks and strings attached defense deals
3rd i am looking at rothchilds and rockefellars which control U.S. govt which asked india too increase FDI
4th I am looking past history with them giving pakistan free money over the years.
5th Pakistan is cheaper partner easier to deal with for example you can make Pakistan happy with 1 lakh but india with 10
Foreign aid to Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
After the Sino-Indian War and the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965, India made considerable changes to its foreign policy. It developed a close relationship with the

Soviet Union and started receiving massive military equipment and financial assistance from the USSR. This had an adverse effect on the Indo-US relationship. The United States saw Pakistan as a counterweight to pro-Soviet India and started giving the former military assistance. This created an atmosphere of suspicion between India and the US. The Indo-US relationship suffered a considerable setback during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan when India openly supported the Soviet Union.
Foreign relations of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

these are wiki links i don't have much time to find better links right now will find them later if you want more

 

[john70]

Sukhoi T-50 Stealth Fighter Completes Tanker Plug Trial

Russian fighter maker Sukhoi's T-50 fifth-generation stealth fighter has completed initial approach trials to a flight refuelling aircraft, the company said on Tuesday.

The aircraft, T-50-2, made approaches to an Il-78 tanker in company with a Su-25UB trainer/strike aircraft.

Sukhoi T-50 Stealth Fighter Completes Tanker Plug Trial | Defense | RIA Novosti

The second prototype, T-50-2 is currently conducting a range of flight trials to test the new plane's flight envelope in subsonic and supersonic regimes and in different configurations.


The first prototype, T-50-1, is undertaking preparation for a flight test program involving flight at super-critical angles of attack and super-maneuverability.


In August, T-50-3 will start full tests of the aircraft's new active phased-array radar system and avionics, which the company says has already shown impressive results in air-to-air and air-to-ground tests.

The NII Tikhomirova radar will allow T-50 to attack targets at long-range in simultaneous air-to-air and air-to-surface modes, detect and classify group and single targets and simultaneously attack several targets at once with precision-guided weapons and also perform electronic warfare functions.

A fourth T-50 will join the test program later this year.

The T-50 is due to enter Russian Air Force service after 2015.

A derivative of the aircraft is also due to enter service with the Indian Air Force at a slightly later date.

 

[drkrn]

While I would agree on the Rafale and Tejas analogy, I wouldn't put FGFA in the same bracket as in the FGFA program we are development partners. While the R&D data may not be as much as what we can get from Tejas, we will still have a much more significant technology share in the program.

The problem with PAKFA is that we missed out on design stage where we could have learnt a lot more of the how and why of the program. But there is still a lot we can learn from the prototype and testing stage and is the very area where Tejas is failing at. Even AMCA is pegged to have a development stage of 7 years followed by a testing stage of 9 years. There is no guarantee an AMCA type aircraft will continue to be relevant after 16 years in the 2025-30 period. Maybe PAKFA can help us reduce time and increase efficiency in a lot of our own programs, maybe even better it.

At least the FGFA will see some design inputs from India followed by it's testing at Ojhar instead of Russia. Perhaps FGFA is like the LCA Mk2 of Russia. So, any flaw that we may have identified can be fixed. IAF has supposedly submitted a list of 45 modifications if my memory serves right. If we are involved in making those modifications then we have some of the how and why right there.

my grandpa always told me a proverb aim for a gown of gold, you may get a sleeve of it, what even if you get a full gown of cotton?
yes we have missed important phase of designing but will gain access to latest 5th gen techs may be which are way beyond our potential.
all jv's India did invest till now are state of art only which gave us great experience in defense projects
lets see what kind of experience pakfa gonna give us

 

[drkrn]

Re: Sukhoi T-50 Stealth Fighter Completes Tanker Plug Trial

Russian fighter maker Sukhoi's T-50 fifth-generation stealth fighter has completed initial approach trials to a flight refuelling aircraft, the company said on Tuesday.

The aircraft, T-50-2, made approaches to an Il-78 tanker in company with a Su-25UB trainer/strike aircraft.

Sukhoi T-50 Stealth Fighter Completes Tanker Plug Trial | Defense | RIA Novosti

the pic states max detection range.what does it mean.
does pakfa has more detection power than f-22.

 

[p2prada]

These are not official figures. Don't read too much into it.

We will probably see official specs in the 2014-15 period. Even LCA's official specs were released sometime in 2008-09.

 

[Bushra Aziz]

IAF has identified a design flaw with the Russian-made Sukhoi-30. There will be some ifs and buts in the future???

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IAF has identified a design flaw with the Russian-made Sukhoi-30. There will be some ifs and buts in the future???

Like but and if ?

 

[p2prada]

IAF has identified a design flaw with the Russian-made Sukhoi-30. There will be some ifs and buts in the future???

Right information. Wrong thread though.

 

[Daredevil]

Info on PAK-FA in Janes

 

[Austin]

^^ Hahah Typical Janes BS , The Phase 1 PAK-FA will have AESA Radar and was mentioned by NIIP and the 3rd prototype carries it already

 

[p2prada]

Yeah. Poor quality reporting followed by speculated information.

Irbis E tracks 32 targets and engages 8. The figures for the AESA version is yet unknown. It can be anywhere between 64 and 200 targets tracked for an array of that size. APG-77 is expected to track 100 targets. The range figures are not known too, he has given Irbis E's range figures for a 2.5m[SUP]2[/SUP] target. The power figure of 10W is also pure BS considering NIIP has developed it's own T/R modules and not using Phazatron's. Anyway, I thought the Zhuk-AE figure was 7W, not 10. Maybe something new, or more speculation on his part.

Reporters are expected to report correctly. Analysts are expected to speculate, right or wrong. He obviously is neither.

I am surprised Janes even published such a poor quality article.

 

[average american]

Problems like this are to be expected plus many more the F22 and F35 are the 5th and 6th decendents of operational stealth planes over a 30 year period. Plus more then 10 discarded prototypes of stealth planes plus generations of stealth drones. The T50 and PAK-FA is Russias first attempt at a semi-version of a steath plane copied from American Technology. And we are talking about Russia, not the USSR, a country with about 10 percent of the military and economic budget of the USA, Add the fact that Russia spends about 1/50th as much on military research and development. Considering the kill ratio of American Planes to Russian planes in the past has been more then 10 to 1 overall I would not expect too much. (Real World)

 

[p2prada]

Problems like this are to be expected plus many more the F22 and F35 are the 5th and 6th decendents of operational stealth planes over a 30 year period. Plus more then 10 discarded prototypes of stealth planes plus generations of stealth drones. The T50 and PAK-FA is Russias first attempt at a semi-version of a steath plane copied from American Technology. And we are talking about Russia, not the USSR, a country with about 10 percent of the military and economic budget of the USA, Add the fact that Russia spends about 1/50th as much on military research and development. Considering the kill ratio of American Planes to Russian planes in the past has been more then 10 to 1 overall I would not expect too much. (Real World)

The Russians have been working on stealth before F-22 too. Mig-MFI and Su-47 were tech demonstrators for PAKFA while Su-35 was a test bed for 5th gen avionics.

All those kill ratios are good but achieved against previous generation fighters. Meaning the 6 day war did not see Fulcrums or Flankers participating. You can say a F-15 can kill 7 F-4s for every loss. There were a few old Fulcrums in Serbia and Iraq which were the first export versions compared to the USAF's modernized teens. The generational gap alone was huge, apart from training, weapons and tactics.

A lot of the American budget goes into salaries, compared to countries like India, China or Russia. As a matter of fact, China will be able to maintain a much larger military than the US military at half the budget in a few more years. So, PPP matters too. My friend gets paid a stipend of $5500 a month in the US and he is only a MS graduate. The senior most scientist in India gets paid around $1500 with today's exchange rate of 57. So, my friend would fall in the $750 a month bracket here.

In R&D terms, Russia cannot keep up with the US, it is impossible for any country presently. But Russia can spend on the most important capital systems in a similar fashion as the US. The F-22 took $20Billion to develop until the first aircraft was delivered, and around $50Billion to induct. PAKFA's budget is $11Billion as of today and India's procurement budget alone is estimated to be $25-30Billion not including Russian and export sales. So, the program is not particularly far behind the F-22 program in terms of money spent since PAKFA is also riding on the MiG-MFI and Berkut programs. That and the PPP advantage that Russia and India have.

 

[average american]

Most of Russia stealth research was from the F117A shot down during the Kosovo war but its old and much less advanced technology then the F22 and F35.
As far as budgets are concerned when it comes to top notched research personnel there is not that much differance in cost in India and the USA, matter of fact one of Russias main problems is their brain drain of top defense engineers going to the west with all their technical knowledge and inside knowledge of Russian weapons. The military budget for India is about 50 billion dollars, Russia 71, both have a tremendous amount of manpower plus large territories to protect plus a substantial problem with corruption.. Despite its efforts however India's over reliance on foreign suppliers for military equipment has led to the armed forces Research & Development (R&D) expenditure being cut in real terms, while the armed forces still face the challenge of ageing equipment and the slow pace of modernisation.[17]
Indian Armed Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you take a look at the figures Russia pays pretty good wages to its officers.

Even the Russians are saying their military industrial complex has deteriorated to the point that they are going to have problems manfacturing the T50 to the standards required and we know what India has went through with the HAL Tejas Jet Fighter for 20 years, even ended up buyng the engines from the USA.

OF course the PAK-FA is not even scheduled to be inducted in to the IAF until 2022., if its on schedule, which wouold be a miracle of all times. , even manned military combat aircraft might be obsolete by then.

Old USA saying, you cant make a silk purse out of a sows (pigs) ear.

 

[p2prada]

Most of Russia stealth research was from the F117A shot down during the Kosovo war but its old and much less advanced technology then the F22 and F35.

That's wrong. Most of the technology on the F-117 was already obsolete by then. It was shot down in 1999. MFI and Berkut were developed well before that.

There is nothing valuable you can get from a wreckage anyway.

As far as budgets are concerned when it comes to top notched research personnel there is not that much differance in cost in India and the USA, matter of fact one of Russias main problems is their brain drain of top defense engineers going to the west with all their technical knowledge and inside knowledge of Russian weapons. The military budget for India is about 50 billion dollars, Russia 71, both have a tremendous amount of manpower plus large territories to protect plus a substantial problem with corruption.. Despite its efforts however India's over reliance on foreign suppliers for military equipment has led to the armed forces Research & Development (R&D) expenditure being cut in real terms, while the armed forces still face the challenge of ageing equipment and the slow pace of modernisation.[17]
Indian Armed Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you take a look at the figures Russia pays pretty good wages to its officers.

India is still a poor country, regardless of all the growth. Our GDP only matches European countries, but nothing to show for in per capita. Btw, our top notch research personnel get paid the same amount as I stated, $1500. You can check DRDO's website. I am willing to bet $1500 is not even 1/5th the starting pay of a regular engineer with no experience.

While there was a massive brain drain early on in Russia, that did not affect the industry as much as you think. Scientists and technicians who were good and experienced were retained. A lot of smaller offices and research centres were shut down, not the main ones. Research on aircraft, tanks and missiles continued even after the Soviet split.

In reality India is nowhere a technological match to the US or even Russia. I was only talking about the PAKFA program and not everything else. Currently Russia and India are pooling resources to spend as much as the US did on the Raptor. That's about it. Differences in salary in both countries is pretty wide compared to the US. Cost of research, with the exception of certain raw materials and capital expenditure for tools, is lower in India than in the US.

R&D on aircraft is quite good in Russia. The US with it's bigger defence budget can spend more on other wings and technologies as compared to Russia.