Su-30 MKI

[pppppppp]

Probably we get it corrected with FGFA and MCA should be much better than that.

 

[Yusuf]

Guys doubting the capabilities of the MKI got to be kidding me. As if an F-15 hasnt crashed. Their whole fleet was grounded for sometime. The best in the world the F-22 crashed.

 

[pppppppp]

It is the reason that was given for the MKI crash that creates a concern here. In this digital world with build in redundancies and effective diagnostics, this type of incident should not happen even if you switch OFF some thing. This shows lack of intelligent monitoring of inputs. Whatever happens, the aircraft should not allow switching off the controls in flight!! This is very basic in automation.

 

[Yusuf]

Its better you not go by what they have told regarding the crash. You think they will tell the world the truth, the whole truth. With India having heavily modified it with the best of systems, you think the fate of the plane would hinge on a single switch?

 

[pppppppp]

Then why is the real reason not given out? If they have to give some reason, it better be believable. If this type of silly reasons are given, then people will start speculating about the capabilities.

Probably the reason is found and not disclosed because of security concerns. Hopefully atleast the IAF knows the real cause and they work towards fixing it and the pilots/concerned team are made aware of this and this type of failure should be avoided.

 

[Yusuf]

Pretty obvious that they will find the real reasons and rectify it.

 

[Soham]

well if the MKI can crash and it isn't even as physically demanding as the others like EF and Rafale , for sure without proper training well loose one every month. i m pretty sure the FCS got switched off while one of those neck cracking high G- turns, loss of orientation is a major problem, we lost a lot of pilots in the mig-21 to that very same problem. need a good fighter than is not so physically demanding, the SH.

Atleast spare this thread from your F-18 advertisements.

I don't doubt the capabilities of the MKI in any way. These incidents keep happening. I'm sure the probe will come out with fruitful results which will be well-implemented to prevent such incidents in the future.

 

[p2prada]

I am wondering, why is there a manual switch for these type of things. It should be controlled by an intelligent software. This raises doubts about how modern is the MKI? Perhaps it needs a re-look and re-design it to the next generation standards. Whatever the statement says, it does not even look current generation. I am getting serious doubts on the capabilities of MKI now!!!

Every fighter has a manual override. From the Mirage-2000 to the F-15 to the F-22. Even the next generation standards will have a manual override. Even LCA has a manual override. So, will the MCA, PAKFA and the FGFA. If you read a few posts above, you would have understood.

 

[p2prada]

you think the fate of the plane would hinge on a single switch?

Yeah mate. When it comes to the FCS, a single switch is enough to turn off the flight controls. But, the fate of the plane rests in the pilots hand and not the switch. It's upto the pilot to control the aircraft.

The pilot was probably trying something out and lost control. It happens to the best of pilots.:cray:

 

[Koji]

When the FCS is switched off, the fighter comes under complete control of the pilot. This means he can maneuver the fighter to its utmost G-limits. Only the most experienced pilots can handle this.

The Mirage-2000 pulls 9G when the FCS is activated, but can pull upto 11G with the FCS switched off by rolling beyond 270deg/second. Something that the MKI does with TVC. Only senior pilots can handle such high Gs, some can handle upto 13Gs.

The manual override is used to get an advantage in dog fights or if something goes wrong with the FCS.

This isn't right. Modern fighters (MKI included) are build with a serious instability. This gives them their maneuverability. It takes a powerful computer to make constant adjustments to the fighter just so it can stay flying, nevermind attempting difficult maneuvers.

I agree with ppppp, the flight computer cannot simply be turned off. There has to be another reason why the MKI crashed.

 

[p2prada]

This isn't right. Modern fighters (MKI included) are build with a serious instability. This gives them their maneuverability. It takes a powerful computer to make constant adjustments to the fighter just so it can stay flying, nevermind attempting difficult maneuvers.

I agree with ppppp, the flight computer cannot simply be turned off. There has to be another reason why the MKI crashed.

Then I wonder why both MKI and Mirage-2000 already come with manual override.

An expert pilot can handle the instability for short amounts of time in dog fights for quick turns.

 

[s_bman]

will mki be bought off the shelf or assembled in India ? can anyone help

edited - Singh

 

[p2prada]

ORIGINAL POST EDITED..mki wont be assembled in india but bought off the shelf ........... any guru can throw some light.

LoL. Let them live in their own world. Let's not burst their bubble. HAL has manufactured over 700 aircraft and overhauled 1200 aircraft.

IRKUT Corporation :: Su-30MK Multirole Combat Aircraft :: Su-30MK Multirole Combat Aircraft
Read Deliveries.......

We are also building 920 Al-31FP engines for the MKIs.

Cheers.

 

[s_bman]

singh ji ............thanks

 

[Koji]

Then I wonder why both MKI and Mirage-2000 already come with manual override.

An expert pilot can handle the instability for short amounts of time in dog fights for quick turns.

I doubt it. Any manuver requires the on flight computer. Do you have a source that says there is an manual override?

If there is such a system, it wouldn't turn off the essential computers that keeping the plane flying.

 

[pppppppp]

Even for manual override, there is no point in switching OFF the controls. The built-in redundancy shall kick in and take over control when the plane is out of pilots control. There is no excuse for this not happening.

 

[Zmey Smirnoff]

Even for manual override, there is no point in switching OFF the controls. The built-in redundancy shall kick in and take over control when the plane is out of pilots control. There is no excuse for this not happening.

Do you speak from some real world experience, or you are just running your mouth for the hell of it?

First. Instead of focusing on "flip the switch" part, why dont you focus on the following

A joint probe by India and Russia into the crash of IAF's Sukhoi aircraft over Jaisalmer in April has given a clearance to the quality of the fighter plane, indicating that the mishap took place due to human error.

"The joint probe by IAF and Russian experts into the Su-30MKI crash has found that there is no problem with the aircraft," informed top Defence Ministry officials in New Delhi on Tuesday.

Second. You watched too many Terminator movies. In any machine, no matter how sophisticated, there will be some switches and buttons that will cause catastrophic failure if pushed in the wrong time. To expect that a jet fighter would be sentient enough to prevent a human pilot from turning off certain vital systems is asinine at best.

If you expect "redundancy shall kick in and take over control when the plane is out of pilots control" then there would be no need for pilots.


Finally. The joint investigation concluded human error as the result of the crash. If you can design a plane that is impervious to human error, why arent you working for Lock-Mart?

 

[pppppppp]

I agree with you Zmey. I was really taken away by that switch thing. I could not digest how can an official statement come out like that! Also an very experienced pilot is driving it and my only worry is that it should not become one more MiG 21...

 

[Zmey Smirnoff]

You know, its not just any MiG-21 that are having problems with disproportionate number of crashes. Its just Indian MiG-21. No country that operates MiG-21 and its derivatives are having that many crashes. Perhaps a different view on this problem is in order.

 

[SATISH]

well MiG 21s were never intended to fly low and bomb...these were interceptors. The controls become sluggish in low level High speed flight. The pride of IAF is to fly low and fly fast. Moreover the IAF MiG 21s are put to real tests. No other country that flies the MiG 21 flies it like IAF.