Su-30 MKI

[Zmey Smirnoff]

well MiG 21s were never intended to fly low and bomb...these were interceptors. The controls become sluggish in low level High speed flight. The pride of IAF is to fly low and fly fast. Moreover the IAF MiG 21s are put to real tests. No other country that flies the MiG 21 flies it like IAF.

Well, maybe that the problem then? If you fly a plane under the conditions its never meant to fly, the only place you going to fly into is the ground. Not a great way to maintain the "pride", eh?

 

[p2prada]

I doubt it. Any manuver requires the on flight computer. Do you have a source that says there is an manual override?

If there is such a system, it wouldn't turn off the essential computers that keeping the plane flying.

Fly by wire/fly by light control system with manual override - US Patent 5255880 Description

F16 simulator report

The procedure for getting out of this is this: first step is to release the stick, and give the FBW system the chance to figure out and try to get the aircraft out of this situation. You have to allow it 10 seconds to do so, and believe me those 10 seconds felt like a whole life time! You have to remember that the aircraft is falling out of the sky like a brick during these 10 seconds. Then if the 10 seconds pass, and the situation hasn’t changed, you have to take action. First thing to do is to hit and hold the ‘FBW manual-override’ switch to disengage the FBW system.

Hope that helps. The second link is from a guy who flew the F-16.

Also, earlier when TVC came in the early 90s, the Russians could not do the cobra maneuver without first switching off the FBW. This was present in the Su-27.

 

[SATISH]

Well, maybe that the problem then? If you fly a plane under the conditions its never meant to fly, the only place you going to fly into is the ground. Not a great way to maintain the "pride", eh?

Yes but we have no other choice. It is either practice like that or lose more aircrafts during war. That is why the FBW equipped Bisons arent that accident prone.

 

[I-G]

IAF taking steps to prevent another SU-30MKI crash

Ravi Sharma

Crash in April resulted in the entire fleet being grounded

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Aircraft needs to be better covered to prevent heat soak due to exposure to sun

There are calls for design change including wire-locking the switches in cockpit


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BANGALORE: The Indian Air Force is initiating steps aimed at preventing another SU-30MKI crash like the one that occurred near Jaisalmer in April during a routine air exercise, killing the co-pilot and destroying a Rs. 200-crore fighter aircraft.

Highly placed sources in the Ministry of Defence told The Hindu that a joint probe by Indian and Russian Defence and flight engineers zeroed-in on the causes for the crash and suggested remedial action.

While one step will involve better covering of the aircraft when they are parked on the tarmac under to prevent heat soak, the other calls for design change, including wire-locking the switches in the cockpit that control power supply to the aircraft’s flight control computer.

The crash of the long range, high endurance SU-30MKI, the Indian Air Force’s most modern and lethal fighter, sent both the IAF and the aircraft designers, Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau, into a tizzy given the fighter’s exceptional and unrivalled flight safety record. The crash also forced the IAF to ground its entire Sukhoi fleet temporarily, compromising the country’s airpower.

The Court of Inquiry (CoI) that went into the crash found that the pilot, Wing Commander S. V. Munje, inadvertently switched-off the four switches that control the power supply to the computer. Switching-off the power not only cuts off the power supply to the computer, but is also irreversible. Switching them on does not ‘power on’ the all important unit.

The aircraft went into a forward bunt, lost control and crashed, killing Wing Commander P. S. Nara, an officer from the IAF’s Directorate of Air Staff Inspection (DASI).

During the flight, the aircraft is said to have experienced a technical glitch after a round of firing practice. The pilot, who was also under routine inspection by the DASI, is said to have then tried to switch-off the armament master switches, which are located just behind the pilot’s seat and in close proximity to the switches that control power to the flight control computer.

Though the CoI’s conclusion was that the crash occurred due to pilot error, a number of officials are questioning the placing of critical switches that are not to be used during in flight and only for power on when the aircraft is on theground in the cockpit and also, the inadequate in-built safety mechanisms like a wire lock or even a covering flap.

Said a former SU-30MKI pilot: “It is unpardonable and a poor design to have such critical switches, which are not to be used by the pilot in such an accessible manner. The Air Force should insist on design changes.”

The probe also revealed that the ejection seat’s harness had broken, leading to the death of Wing Commander Nara.

The reason for the breaking is being attributed to material failure of the harness due to exposure to the sun. The IAF has taken steps to have the aircraft more adequately covered.

The Hindu : National : IAF taking steps to prevent another SU-30MKI crash

 

[slug55]

Anyone have an estimation for what the RCS of the SU-30MKI would be? Im going to assume its larger than the F-16's which is close to 1m2 (don't quote me on that)

 

[Daredevil]

Anyone have an estimation for what the RCS of the SU-30MKI would be? Im going to assume its larger than the F-16's which is close to 1m2 (don't quote me on that)

THe frontal RCS of SU-30MKI is 10m2 (old estimate) while that of F-16 is 1.2m2. There have been recent measure taken to reduce the massive RCS of Su-30MKI by the use of RAM coating etc. Current RCS is seem to be reduced to 3m2 without any load.

 

[John]

well block 60 has a rcs of slightly below 1m2 and MKI phase 3 version has around 2-2.5 m2 rcs. phase 4 Mki will have rcs around below 2m2.

 

[slug55]

Damn that's still very high RCS for the Su-30MKI. I know its a huge aircraft but still its gonna be detected quickly by SAM sites. I wonder after the Pak-FA has enter production India/Russia would consider using the RAM coating from the Pak-Fa on the MKI. Might reduce the RCS a little bit more, granted the Pak-Fa has to appear first. Who knows when that prototype will fly

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Damn that's still very high RCS for the Su-30MKI. I know its a huge aircraft but still its gonna be detected quickly by SAM sites. I wonder after the Pak-FA has enter production India/Russia would consider using the RAM coating from the Pak-Fa on the MKI. Might reduce the RCS a little bit more, granted the Pak-Fa has to appear first. Who knows when that prototype will fly

The candards and the air intakes are the greatest cause for the high RCS. TV nozzle also contribute for this issue.

 

[K Factor]

The candards and the air intakes are the greatest cause for the high RCS. TV nozzle also contribute for this issue.

Even without the canards, the basic Su-27 has greater frontal RCS than the MLI.
How do TVC nozzles contribute to frontal RCS?

 

[K Factor]

Damn that's still very high RCS for the Su-30MKI. I know its a huge aircraft but still its gonna be detected quickly by SAM sites. I wonder after the Pak-FA has enter production India/Russia would consider using the RAM coating from the Pak-Fa on the MKI. Might reduce the RCS a little bit more, granted the Pak-Fa has to appear first. Who knows when that prototype will fly

RAM is not magic paint mate. You just cant apply it to a huge bird like the MKI, and expect a drastic reduction in RCS.

Low RCS is by design. No matter whatever amount of RAM you put on the MKI, it won't be stealthy. . Not even if we paint the entire aircraft with RAM.

BTW, RAM is expensive and even more expensive to maintain.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Even without the canards, the basic Su-27 has greater frontal RCS than the MLI.
How do TVC nozzles contribute to frontal RCS?

This is because MKI uses far larger share of composites.
By saying TVC nozzles I mean that it is made up of materials that aid radar reflection.

 

[venom]

The RCS of Su-30MKI Has been reduced to 4 m2.......

 

[John]

haha...4m2 thats a massive overstatement the RCS of the MKI is not like that of Gulfstream or a Boeing 737, its lower, its rcs is around between 2-2.5m2 and thats as far as it goes. The mk-4 completely Indian made MKI will have a lot more composites, Irbis-E radar, will be lighter, more home made avionics and will indeed have a lot more home made RAM coatings sure the rcs wont go down drastically but will put it in the range of 2m2. TVC nozzle actually reduces the heat signature of the MKI, sure the materials used aid radar reflection , TVC reduces heat footprint.

 

[p2prada]

The MKI RCS is between 4 and 5m2. It varies based on the external payload and the environment(EW). The composites are meant to make the MKI lighter and not give it stealth properties.

Even the F-15 has an unreasonably high RCS for today's environment similar to the MKI.

 

[pppppppp]

When is MK4 planned? More details on this version shall be appreciated.
Are all components Indian made? Somewhere I read that Irbis is also going into PAKFA. I would expect more of the advanced components of PAKFA going into MKx...

 

[venom]

Force Magazine reports in the latest issue:-

1.) Su-30 MKI to undergo mid-life upgrade starting 2014
2.) Bars radar to be upgraded with AESA antenna
3.) active skin - AESA T/R modules to be mounted in wing sections to provide > 180 deg FoV
4.) Al-31FP engines to be uprated by 20% with operating life increased to 6k hrs
5.) Conformal weapons station between engine pods for stealth (carries a prototype photo too!)

 

[p2prada]

When is MK4 planned? More details on this version shall be appreciated.
Are all components Indian made? Somewhere I read that Irbis is also going into PAKFA. I would expect more of the advanced components of PAKFA going into MKx...

The earliest speculations for MK4 suggested 2010. So, I guess, it should be 2010. HAL has not been open about what is being sourced from Russia. But, MK4 will not be 100% indigenous. Irbis is PESA, and is being made for MKI and Su-35. PAKFA will have an AESA.

The MK4 will most probably have our own composites. Russians have worked on the Su-47 Berkut with composites. Perhaps it will be a joint collaboration.

 

[venom]

Developing the ‘Smart Skin’ concept for Su-30MKI

The pre-planned product improvement roadmap for the Su-30MKI continues to make steady progress, with two Indian Air Force (IAF) Su-30MKIs, delivered in mid-2002, being dispatched to United Aircraft Corp (UAC) of Russia’s Irkutsk-based facility (IRKUT Corp) where both airframes will be strengthened and refurbished, and their navigation-and-attack system will be upgraded in order to arm the aircraft with the BrahMos supersonic air-launched cruise missile for both maritime strike and ground attack. Thus, while all structural and electrical work will be undertaken at Irkutsk, the Tikhomirov-NIIP will upgrade the Su-30MKI’s existing NO-11M ‘Bars’ passive phased-array radar’s performance and operating modes by incorporating a radar target extraction LRU. Once all this has been done, the two upgraded Su-30MKIs will be flown back to India to begin the weapons qualification test-firings, which will be jointly conducted by BrahMos Aerospace and the IAF.

And come 2014, UAC, together with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will begin upgrading the first 100 IAF Su-30MKIs by modifying their airframes to make them stealthy, converting the existing ‘Bars’ into an active phased-array radar, enhancing the situational awareness by incorporating active electronically scanned transmit/receive arrays on the aircraft’s wings, and beefing up the defensive-aids suite by installing a combined radar/laser warning system and a missile approach warning system. Tikhomirov-NIIP had by last November begun laboratory-level tests of a ‘Bars’, which was fitted with an AESA array made up of X-band transmit/receive modules built by Istok JSC.

Since then, another two ‘Bars’ radars have been modified as part of the R&D phase, which will last until 2012, and will be followed by flight qualification a year later. Incidentally, Tikhomirov-NIIP has also developed the Irbis-E passive phased-array radar for the Su-35BM and will soon begin work on modifying the Irbis-E into an active phased-array radar, which will go on board the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) that will be co-developed by UAC and HAL. In addition, both UAC and Tikhomirov-NIIP have come together to develop the ‘smart skin’ concept under which an AESA array’s transmit/receive modules can be placed anywhere on board the Su-30MKI to generate the relevant radiation field required for achieving more than 180-degree field-of-view.

 

[I-G]

IAF to have 230 Su-30 MKI fighters by 2015: Antony

New Delhi, July 08: Government plans to more than double the number of Russian-made Sukhoi 30 MKI fighter aircraft in Indian Air Force fleet to 230 by 2015, Defence Minister A K Antony informed the Rajya Sabha on Wednesday.

Replying to supplementaries during the Question Hour, Antony said since 1996 IAF has procured 98 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft.

"By 2015, we plan to have a fleet of 230 Sukhoi fighter aircraft," he said.

IAF, he said, feels Sukhoi - one of the most advanced fighter aircraft in the world - is best suited for Indian conditions. "IAF is very happy with these aircraft," he said.

He said a Court of Inquiry has been ordered into a Sukhoi crash near Jaisalmer on April 30 during a routine training flight. Both pilots ejected but the Flying Inspector, who was also a qualified pilot and was occupying the rear seat, succumbed to injuries.

"Following the incident, the IAF has undertaken a detailed inspection of all Sukhoi 30 MKI fighter aircraft," he said.

Minister of State for Defence M M Pallam Raju said the blackbox of the crashed Sukhoi was badly damaged and has been sent to the UK for retrieving information.

The Court of Inquiry would look into the possible reasons for the crash including probability of malfunctioning of some equipment.

IAF to have 230 Su-30 MKI fighters by 2015: Antony