Su-30 MKI

[Galaxy]

Bombers are useful when you have enemies across continents. Our enemies are close to us. Hence the requirement does not exist.

Bombers are a force multiplier, but it is not needed in the India-Pak-China context.

If China attacks India, It can hit almost whole country as per their current inventory & Missile range provided that they able to breach few areas.

How we will attack or retaliate ? I don't see how we will cross Lhasa. 80% Chinese industry, population is at east cost.

 

[SPIEZ]

That's 140 from HAL and 90 from Russia. Total 230. That would mean 200 within the current financial year. And 30 more in two years. Followed by 42+1 in 3 years.



Yeah. At least half of the 108 to be made in HAL will be SKDs and CKDs. The other half may be 85% indigenous as mentioned by HAL. The rest 15% may come from France. Further options will all be made in India.

As for direct orders from France beyond the 18 ordered, it depends on how PAKFA and LCA progress. If delays are seen then orders will come.

I am quite sure the SFC contract will go to Dassault because it makes sense to ensure the SFC aircraft are the same as what the IAF already operates. Say, if SFC uses Typhoons or Su-34 while the IAF has none of these in it's inventory then the enemy will know for sure the package headed towards them is nuclear. So, it has to be taken for granted that the SFC will use either Rafale or MKI.

Navy deal will be a competition between Rafale and F-35. Dassault will be able to push for a cheaper deal once the IAF deal is in the bag. ToT obligations will get very easy after that. F-35 is backed by 3000+ orders. So, they may make it very lucrative enough to compete with Rafale. The deal is 40% smaller than IAF's. Very lucrative for anybody.

What is the sfc contract ?

 

[Param]

Bombers are useful when you have enemies across continents. Our enemies are close to us. Hence the requirement does not exist.

Bombers are a force multiplier, but it is not needed in the India-Pak-China context.

The problem is some people are not understanding that in the India China context bombers are not meant to fly over 2000 Kms of Hostile territory.

The US and Russia have Bombers that only have to cross the Pacific or Atlantic and not fly over thousands of KMs of US or Russian territory.

Only Stealth bombers can do the above said and B2 is the only such system.

 

[Galaxy]

Look it is not possible to send bombers all the way to the East coast via Tibet and central China. They will be intercepted. what else do you think they have S300 and S400 clones for?
ABM has nothing to with bombers, their Air defence is pretty good.

Maybe you don't know the increasing Chinese naval presence in SCS. Heck even their ships have a version of HQ19 or something.
If it is possible for us to reach their East coast all the way, then it is also possible the other way round.

Lets be a bit realistic.

I am aware of their current inventory and what's going on.....

See in different way, if they will have Long range bomber, Get some logistic support at SL or Myanmar. They can hit anywhere in the country. We also need something which can reach there if needed. There is risk but that risk is worth taking as it will work as credible deterrence. Deterrence doesn't mean War.

 

[Param]

If China attacks India, It can hit almost whole country as per their current inventory & Missile range provided that they able to breach few areas.

How we will attack or retaliate ? I don't see how we will cross Lhasa. 80% Chinese industry, population is at east cost.

Hundreds of Agnis and K series period.

 

[Galaxy]

Look it is not possible to send bombers all the way to the East coast via Tibet and central China. They will be intercepted. what else do you think they have S300 and S400 clones for?
ABM has nothing to with bombers, their Air defence is pretty good.

Maybe you don't know the increasing Chinese naval presence in SCS. Heck even their ships have a version of HQ19 or something.
If it is possible for us to reach their East coast all the way, then it is also possible the other way round.

Lets be a bit realistic.

I am aware of their current inventory and what's going on.....

See in different way, if they will have Long range bomber, Indeed they already have. If they get some logistic support at SL or Myanmar. Recently, Coco island came into limelight where Chinese are building Airbase. They can hit anywhere in our country. We also need something which can reach there if needed. There is risk but that risk is worth taking as it will work as credible deterrence. Deterrence doesn't mean War.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Russia is not going to sell everything they have no matter how much money we infuse.
Despite all the talk of India sharing the cost of PakFa or FGFA there is hardly anything for us to contribute and call it a joint venture.

US will not sell B2 to any country let alone India.

If Russia comes up with something like B2 they won't sell it to any country because such weapons are total game changers

Russia reportedly leased us 4 Tupolevs TU-22M. Why wouldn't they be interested in financing PAK-DA?

 

[Galaxy]

Russia reportedly leased us 4 Tupolevs TU-22M. Why wouldn't they be interested in financing PAK-DA?

I think Russia can sell Tu-95 or Tu-160. Not so expensive and 2 squadron with 30-40 will make huge difference.

Imagine, Situation once all ground deference system are destroyed. It will be deadly and total destruction. Truck load of bombs. Normally long range bomber is used in Phase II.

 

[Param]

Russia reportedly leased us 4 Tupolevs TU-22M. Why wouldn't they be interested in financing PAK-DA?

That's upgraded 80's technology.
And I beleive those were meant for maritime reconnaissance and not bombing role.

PakDa is a totally different matter.

Finance it? Oh yes we people are so rich that we can finance foreign military projects while not gaining any technical know how. For all the reports about us financing PakFa how much tech was transferred?
The Russians don't even acknowledge any sharing of cost and call it completely Russian.

Any way if the Russians are ready and India really gains somethink then that is fine otherwise we should just stick to building more Agnis.

 

[The Messiah]

The problem is some people are not understanding that in the India China context bombers are not meant to fly over 2000 Kms of Hostile territory.

The US and Russia have Bombers that only have to cross the Pacific or Atlantic and not fly over thousands of KMs of US or Russian territory.

Only Stealth bombers can do the above said and B2 is the only such system.

You have raised a good point!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I think Russia can sell Tu-95 or Tu-160. Not so expensive and 2 squadron with 30-40 will make huge difference.

Imagine, Situation once all ground deference system is destroyed. It will be deadly and total destruction. Truck load of bombs. Normally long range bomber is used in Phase II.

Russia in the past has reportedly leased or sold Tupolevs to India but neither side is conforming anything.
At one time tupolevs were also part of the Gorshokov deal package but no details have ever been released.

The Gorshkov deal

The Gorshkov deal

The two Ministers also discussed the delivery of Sukhoi Su-30-Mk1 Super Flanker multi-role fighters and T-90-S main battle tanks. Other topics that figured in the talks were the possibility of the Indian Navy getting the Tupolev TU-22 Backfire intermediate-range bombers and the programme for upgrading diesel-powered submarines. Both Fernandes and Ivanov denied that negotiations had taken place for the supply of nuclear-powered Akula class submarines.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

That's upgraded 80's technology.
And I beleive those were meant for maritime reconnaissance and not bombing role.

PakDa is a totally different matter.

Finance it? Oh yes we people are so rich that we can finance foreign military projects while not gaining any technical know how. For all the reports about us financing PakFa how much tech was transferred?
The Russians don't even acknowledge any sharing of cost and call it completely Russian.

Any way if the Russians are ready and India really gains somethink then that is fine otherwise we should just stick to building more Agnis.

why don't we stop depending on Russia who always wind up blackmailing us and focus more on our own
AVATAR program.

 

[Galaxy]

Yes, LF.

I have feeling that, we have many Russian weapons/jets which is not known on public domain. Not sure for Tupolev series bomber but there are other things. One of my friend who work with armed forces North India cantonment at high official level told me, we have squadron of MKI located somewhere in one of the airbase of Punjab. Also squadron of MKI in Jodhpur since last 1 year. but news came only few months back. As per official, We have only 7 squadron (2 -Pune, 1 Jodhpur, 2 Bareilley, 2 Assam). I think, few things are not known and that is good.

 

[bhramos]

Russia in the past has reportedly leased or sold Tupolevs to India but neither side is conforming anything.
At one time tupolevs were also part of the Gorshokov deal package but no details have ever been released.

The Gorshkov deal

The Gorshkov deal

The two Ministers also discussed the delivery of Sukhoi Su-30-Mk1 Super Flanker multi-role fighters and T-90-S main battle tanks. Other topics that figured in the talks were the possibility of the Indian Navy getting the Tupolev TU-22 Backfire intermediate-range bombers and the programme for upgrading diesel-powered submarines. Both Fernandes and Ivanov denied that negotiations had taken place for the supply of nuclear-powered Akula class submarines.

did we get them or not, its not a small plane to hide,,,
now what is the position Tu-142 after arriving P-8I???

 

[trackwhack]

All Im saying is acquiring long range bombers within the next 15 to 20 years is imperative. whether through partnership with russia, buying from a third party or building one ourselves. Using fighters as bombers is not a viable option in the long term due to range and payload limitations.

And of course Russia will be open to JV on the PAK - DA. They understand where India will be in terms of spending power in 2 decades.

 

[The Messiah]

Yes, LF.

I have feeling that, we have many Russian weapons/jets which is not known on public domain. Not sure for Tupolev series bomber but there are other things. One of my friend who work with armed forces North India cantonment at high official level told me, we have squadron of MKI located somewhere in one of the airbase of Punjab. Also squadron of MKI in Jodhpur since last 1 year. but news came only few months back. As per official, We have only 7 squadron (2 -Pune, 1 Jodhpur, 2 Bareilley, 2 Assam). I think, few things are not known and that is good.

is it wise to post in public domain what your friend told you ?

 

[p2prada]

If China attacks India, It can hit almost whole country as per their current inventory & Missile range provided that they able to breach few areas.

How we will attack or retaliate ? I don't see how we will cross Lhasa. 80% Chinese industry, population is at east cost.

The Chinese do not have such capability. Only the Americans do.

Neither side will hit population centers. We have access to South parts of China which have civilian centers. Their biggest military industrial complex, Chengdu, is within MKIs range.

 

[Param]

The Chinese do not have such capability. Only the Americans do.

Neither side will hit population centers. We have access to South parts of China which have civilian centers. Their biggest military industrial complex, Chengdu, is within MKIs range.

In the event of a war how far interior would MKI be able to go inside Sichuan?

 

[p2prada]

What is the sfc contract ?

Strategic Forces Command. They are our nuclear command. They want 2 squadrons of aircraft for delivering freshly prepared home made nukes.

 

[Galaxy]

is it wise to post in public domain what your friend told you ?

I know, I don't post. I posted because now many people know that. Within a year, News will come for that. We already have MKI....it's just about more squadron. people are discussing of having more no. But you have valid point, Will take care in future.