Su-30 MKI

[Patriot]

Zhuk AESA Radars for Indian Air Force Sukhoi Su-30 MKI Fighters

Speculations are abound that India is fitting its Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters with Russian Zhuk-AE active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. The X-band radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode and engage six targets simultaneously in attack mode. By 2018, the Indian air force inventory is expected to comprise around 300 Su-30MKIs.

India's Sukhoi Su-30MKIs currently use N011M passive array technology, which delivers less peak power than an AESA. The N011M also has limitations in its back-end processing and requires more maintenance. Defense Minister A.K. Antony recently told the Indian parliament about a proposal to upgrade the Indian air force's Su-30 fleet.

The upgrade is be carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. and Russia's Irkut, the original equipment manufacturer, starting in 2012. It is likely that the order for the AESA also will be made simultaneously, as the radar will have to be integrated into most parts of the aircraft, including the navigation systems and engines.

The Su-30 entered service in India in 2000 -- the purchase was approved in 1997 -- and the aircraft have not been upgraded since.

AESA technology offers improved performance and reliability compared with traditional mechanically scanned array radars. India also has made it clear that having an AESA will be critical in the competition for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA). For instance, the F-16IN is being proposed with the Northrop Grumman APG-80, while the F/A-18E/F is being bid with the Raytheon APG-78. All the other contenders have offered an AESA road map,

During the April trials for the MiG-35, the Zhuk AE test radar had a slightly smaller array than the production version would feature. The MiG-35 also is a contender in the MRCA competition.

India would also expect to field an AESA on the fifth-generation fighter -- the co-development and production effort with Russia built around the Sukhoi T-50.





http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4639

 

[Armand2REP]

That's comical... why would IAF want to DOWNGRADE to a Zhuk radar? It has half the range. Sticking an AESA on a bird with monster RCS of 20m^2 makes no sense. LPI is only feasable for LO aircraft. If no one noticed, Phazotron is in bankruptcy court over debt to Alpha Bank. If you want an upgrade, get Irbis so you can detect LO aircraft.

 

[SHASH2K2]

That's comical... why would IAF want to DOWNGRADE to a Zhuk radar? It has half the range. Sticking an AESA on a bird with monster RCS of 20m^2 makes no sense. LPI is only feasable for LO aircraft. If no one noticed, Phazotron is in bankruptcy court over debt to Alpha Bank. If you want an upgrade, get Irbis so you can detect LO aircraft.

do you have specification or comparison of diffrent AESA Radars available in Russia. If you can elaborate of pros and cons of current BAR radar with planned AESA one it will be really helpful.

 

[Armand2REP]

do you have specification or comparison of diffrent AESA Radars available in Russia. If you can elaborate of pros and cons of current BAR radar with planned AESA one it will be really helpful.

The Zhuk-AE prototype is the only working AESA in Russia. During tests it detected regional airliners up to 148km. N011M Bars can detect them at 300km. The downside of the Bars is its huge radar return which lights up any radar receivers in the air. It really isn't a big deal since an AWACs can detect the Su-30 with no radar on at 300km anyway. Putting a weak AESA built for a light fighter on a huge aircraft is not going to give it any tactical advantage, it will actually blind it at long range. For anyone that says it will save the MKI from being jammed, I will say you aren't going to jam a N011M radar with anything before you are dead. No one has stand off jammers with enough power to cut through it before an R-77 takes it out.

 

[SHASH2K2]

The Zhuk-AE prototype is the only working AESA in Russia. During tests it detected regional airliners up to 148km. N011M Bars can detect them at 300km. The downside of the Bars is its huge radar return which lights up any radar receivers in the air. It really isn't a big deal since an AWACs can detect the Su-30 with no radar on at 300km anyway. Putting a weak AESA built for a light fighter on a huge aircraft is not going to give it any tactical advantage, it will actually blind it at long range. For anyone that says it will save the MKI from being jammed, I will say you aren't going to jam a N011M radar with anything before you are dead. No one has stand off jammers with enough power to cut through it before an R-77 takes it out.

So in short its complete waste of money and lethality of Sukhoi will go down.

 

[Armand2REP]

So in short its complete waste of money and lethality of Sukhoi will go down.

Certainly, it was designed for light tactical fighters. If you want it, put it on a MiG-29 upgrade.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

^^I guess the radar will be modified to increase the range..they are not fools to replace a higher range radar with lesser range one.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I know that Some IAF officials are upset coz of BARS weight which limits MKI maneuverability, Recent exercises with France and other raise this problem further..

Those IAF officials who argue for ZHUK-AK should understand that MKI is a platform for long range engagements so call BVR warfare, MMRCA are close dog-fighters..

Making this discussion may cost us heavily, their is nothing good as bars for long engagements and detection, few AWACS are not enough for surveillance..

MKI have a very different roles, Dog-fighting cannot be given first priority..

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Zhuk ae radar range can be increased to 200km,And won't a bigger version of zhuk ae is possible ? besides that by 2018 indian will get fgfa (probably with longer range aesa) then mki would step back from air superiority role.
at what range the jamming of current bars in mki is possible ?

 

[death.by.chocolate]

The Zhuk-AE prototype is the only working AESA in Russia. During tests it detected regional airliners up to 148km. N011M Bars can detect them at 300km. The downside of the Bars is its huge radar return which lights up any radar receivers in the air. It really isn't a big deal since an AWACs can detect the Su-30 with no radar on at 300km anyway. Putting a weak AESA built for a light fighter on a huge aircraft is not going to give it any tactical advantage, it will actually blind it at long range. For anyone that says it will save the MKI from being jammed, I will say you aren't going to jam a N011M radar with anything before you are dead. No one has stand off jammers with enough power to cut through it before an R-77 takes it out.

That's comical... why would IAF want to DOWNGRADE to a Zhuk radar? It has half the range. Sticking an AESA on a bird with monster RCS of 20m^2 makes no sense. LPI is only feasable for LO aircraft.

:emot15: ..but not as comical as your posts..

At maximum detection range current Su-30MKI radar suffers from poor range resolution. Range resolution is the inability to resolve two or more bogey's flying close together. The resolution cell of the NIIP N011M Bars can be ten times higher than the APG-68 resolution cell of 20m2 at maximum detection range.
The resolution cell for both radars can be calculated from publicly available technical specifications using basic radar equations.

The decision to 'DOWNGRADE' to a Zhuk radar isn't comical it is expected. The Su-30MKI has a larger nose that can accommodate a wider antenna(more T/R modules, more power from the Al-31FP power plant combined with additional space for cooling will allow the Russians to dramatically improve the performance over current Zhuk prototypes. So once again, Indian efforts to replace N011M Bars with Zhuk makes a lot of sense although I expected India to opt for a custom built Israeli radar.

For anyone that says it will save the MKI from being jammed, I will say you aren't going to jam a N011M radar with anything before you are dead.LPI is only feasable for LO aircraft

LPI or low probability of intercept isn't limited to LO aircrafts any radar that achieves main beam gain of +55dB over the first sidelobe has LPI capability.
This radar can be made to operate on a non stealth aircraft, the Raptor's LPI radar APG-77 and avionics were tested on a Boeing 737 testbed.

A majority of ECM techniques involve exploitation of side lobes, side lobes takes power away from the main beam. PESA radar is known to have inferior side lobe performance in comparison to AESA, at maximum detection range the N011M Bars may become susceptible to ECM techniques such as range gate stealing and velocity gate stealing. These techniques are adopted by the adversary to falsify range and velocity data. Once again you're wrong, in most cases it is easier to deceive the radar at greater distances.

 

[Armand2REP]

:emot15: ..but not as comical as your posts..

At maximum detection range current Su-30MKI radar suffers from poor range resolution. Range resolution is the inability to resolve two or more bogey's flying close together. The resolution cell of the NIIP N011M Bars can be ten times higher than the APG-68 resolution cell of 20m2 at maximum detection range.
The resolution cell for both radars can be calculated from publicly available technical specifications using basic radar equations.

Pretty funny, range resolution is not a factor at 200-300km when the purpose is to detect a threat. When it comes time for engagement it is irrelevant to a missile requiring a target lock under 100km where the issue will be resolved.

The decision to 'DOWNGRADE' to a Zhuk radar isn't comical it is expected. The Su-30MKI has a larger nose that can accommodate a wider antenna(more T/R modules, more power from the Al-31FP power plant combined with additional space for cooling will allow the Russians to dramatically improve the performance over current Zhuk prototypes. So once again, Indian efforts to replace N011M Bars with Zhuk makes a lot of sense although I expected India to opt for a custom built Israeli radar.

Maybe you should read before you open your mouth, it wasn't stated as just a Zhuk radar... it stated Zhuk-AE. It won't accommodate anything without being a completely different radar set. To increase size it must be offset with new hardware, power modulators, and processors. Phazatron will not be completing development since they are now insolvent.

LPI or low probability of intercept isn't limited to LO aircrafts any radar that achieves main beam gain of +55dB over the first sidelobe has LPI capability.
This radar can be made to operate on a non stealth aircraft, the Raptor's LPI radar APG-77 and avionics were tested on a Boeing 737 testbed.

You have a reading comprehension problem, I never said LO aircraft are the only ones to have LPI capability. I said it makes little sense to put an LPI radar on a platform as highly observable as a Flanker.

A majority of ECM techniques involve exploitation of side lobes, side lobes takes power away from the main beam. PESA radar is known to have inferior side lobe performance in comparison to AESA, at maximum detection range the N011M Bars may become susceptible to ECM techniques such as range gate stealing and velocity gate stealing. These techniques are adopted by the adversary to falsify range and velocity data. Once again you're wrong, in most cases it is easier to deceive the radar at greater distances.

At maximum range, the Bars will not be within weapons lock so it really doesn't matter. When the target enters the missile envelope, the 7kW power of the Bars will cut through enough to get a lock, it is up to the missile to defeat the jamming technique when it goes active. The N011M is one of the most advanced PESA radars in service today, its sidelobe performance is quite good using a travelling wave tube and backplane waveguide feed, performance is between USAF PESA and AESA arrays.

 

[death.by.chocolate]

it wasn't stated as just a Zhuk radar... it stated Zhuk-AE. It won't accommodate anything without being a completely different radar set. To increase size it must be offset with new hardware, power modulators, and processors. Phazatron will not be completing development since they are now insolvent.

Vyacheslav Tishchenko, the company's general director, says the detection range of the radar could be increased from 148 km to 200 km.


A Phazotron official I spoke with at Aero India 2009 in February had pointed out that the Zhuk-AE's range could be extended dramatically by locating it further back in the nose of the MiG-35, taking advantage of the increased cross section to add TR modules and increase the radiated energy.

http://kuku.sawf.org/News/60169.aspx

Ok then I guess Vyacheslav Tishchenko and I are wrong. Clearly you know more about radars .... :happy_2:

 

[Sridhar]

Zhuk ASE AESA - Scaling the Zhuk AE for the Flanker

One of the stated intentions of Phazotron is to scale up the Zhuk AE for the Flanker, in the manner of the Zhuk-27 and Zhuk-MSFE variants, using a 0.98 metre diameter aperture.

If we assume that such a scaled up design uses exactly the same quad module technology as the Zhuk AE does, and an enlarged cooling plate and mounting frame, then the achievable performance will scale with the aperture size. For the 0.98 m antenna outside diameter, assuming a similar unused area around the emitter array, the total usable aperture diameter will be around 0.8 metres, and the element count will sit at around 1160. If we assume tighter placement and a 1.1 metre antenna outside diameter, as used in the Pero PESA, then the total usable aperture diameter will be around 0.95 metres, and the element count will sit at around 1630, or about the same as the Zhuk-MSFE PESA design.

With a peak power rating of 10 Watts/channel the latter yields a peak power of the order of 16.3 kW which results in a radar which outperforms the N011M BARS, APG-63(V)1, APG-71 and APG-79 in raw power aperture performance. Such a radar could reach IOC around 2010 if it is funded properly, in step with the timelines for the NIIP Irbis E.

If Phazotron improve the TR channel power rating as they have stated an intent to do, then the results bear some careful consideration. Tabulating options yields some interesting results.

​

Estimated detection range chart for variants of the Zhuk ASE AESA equipped with a range of Transmit Receive Module power ratings per channel. The detection range performance of the 10 and 12 Watt module equipped Zhuk ASE is similar to the Tikhomirov NIIP Irbis-E hybrid ESA in the Su-35BM/Su-35-1, and much superior to the N011M BARS. The performance of Zhuk ASE if equipped with modules rated above 15 Watts is superior to the Irbis E. Receiver noise figure and effective aperture area are assumed to be similar. N011M performance is based on parametric data and is better than NIIP cited figures (Author).

Notional Zhuk ASE Estimated Power Aperture: ~1630 TR channels; 0.95 meter aperture diameter; NF=3.5 dB
TR Channel Peak Power [W]
Radar Ave Power [kW] Radar Peak Power [kW]
PAPEAK [dBWm2] 10.0
8.15
16.3 40.6
12.0
10.0
20.0
41.5
15.0
12.25
24.5
42.4
20.0
16.3
32.6
43.6
25.0
20.4
40.8
44.6


Notional Zhuk ASE: Radars/Fighters Power Aperture Comparison
TR Channel Peak Power [W] Radars Outperformed by Zhuk ASE Fighter Types Equipped
10.0 N011M BARS, APG-63(V)1, APG-70, APG-73, APG-79, APG-81 Su-30MK, F-15C/E, F/A-18A-G, JSF
12.0 N011M BARS, APG-63(V)1, APG-70, APG-73, APG-79, APG-81 Su-30MK, F-15C/E, F/A-18A-G, JSF 15.0 N035 Irbis E, N011M BARS, APG-63(V)1, APG-70, APG-73, APG-79, APG-81 Su-30MK/35BM, F-15C/E, F/A-18A-G, JSF 20.0 N035 Irbis E, N011M BARS, APG-63(V)1, APG-70, APG-73, APG-79, APG-81 Su-30MK/35BM, F-15C/E, F/A-18A-G, JSF 25.0 N035 Irbis E, N011M BARS, APG-63(V)1, APG-70, APG-73, APG-79, APG-81 Su-30MK/35BM, F-15C/E, F/A-18A-G, JSF

Once Phazotron have engineered a Zhuk ASE with ~1630 TR Channels, then scaling up power aperture performance is only a matter of changing the TR Module design to use more powerful transistors, and improving the per module heat transfer performance in the AESA. Both of the latter represent fairly low risk incremental design changes.

Much of the imperative in the US to pursue high density tiled packaging was the result of a high demand for reduced AESA mass production costs, good structural mode RCS performance, and tight element spacing to maximise bandwidth, so as to expand the functions the AESAs could perform and to maximise LPI capability via frequency agility. It is not entirely clear that these would be compelling near term motives for Russia's industry - they will become such as work on the avionics for the PAK-FA accelerates.

There can be absolutely no doubt that Phazotron will aggressively market the Zhuk ASE as an upgrade package into the established Flanker market, which could be as large as 500 aircraft in China alone.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Zhuk-AE-Analysis.html#Video

 

[EagleOne]

Indian Sukhoi jets to have indigenous flight display system

Bangalore, Oct 20 – Russian-designed Sukhoi fighters (Su-30MKI) with the Indian Air Force (IAF) will soon have in their cockpit an indigenous multi-functional display system manufactured by Samtel in a joint venture with defence behemoth Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), a senior executive said Wednesday.

'The first home-grown multi-functional display (MFD) system will be fitted in the cockpit of a Sukhoi for a roll-out Friday,' Samtel-HAL Display Systems Ltd Executive Director Puneet Kaura told reporters on the margins of a defence conference here.


The display systems are being manufactured under a limited series production by the joint venture in collaboration with scientists and engineers of the state-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) at a cost of Rs.250 crore.


In the joint venture formed in 2006, Samtel has 60 percent equity stake, while the $2-billion HAL holds 40 percent stake.


The MFD system is a device that puts aircraft monitoring systems and flight planning functions at a pilot's finger tips. The system displays a composite view of the aircraft's environment, providing the pilot with all information to make safe decisions during every phase of flight.


Engine performance and situational data such as location, terrain and weather and airport information, which are digitally depicted can be quickly interpreted at a glance on the large-format display.


'We have supplied five ship sets of MFD systems to the IAF for conducting flight trials in association with the Aircraft Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE), the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (Cemilac) and HAL,' Kaura said on the sidelines of the 'Indian Aerospace andamp; Suppliers' Conference, organised by KPMG and the American Chamber of Commerce (AMCHAM) here.


About 30 flight trials were conducted so far at the HAL airport in Bangalore.


The indigenous MFD systems will replace the flight display systems of French aerospace firm Thales, fitted on Sukhois, reducing the cost significantly.


'The air force is in need of MFD systems in large numbers for its Sukhoi fighters. With their number set to go up, demand for it will increase,' an industry source said.


The Sukhoi fleet strength of IAF will go up to 230 by 2017 from 105 currently in phases. The first 90 Sukhois were Russian built, while the remaining 140 are being manufactured by HAL at its Nashik plant in Maharashtra under licence production from Sukhoi Design Bureau.

'We will have to produce five ship-sets every month. We hope to meet the requirement in the next five years. The systems were cleared for the series production a fortnight ago,' Kaura said.


Samtel is in advanced talks with some international firms to market the technology.


'Our technology is ready and the potential is huge as it operates in all-weather conditions,' Kaura added

http://www.indiatalkies.com/2010/10/indian-sukhoi-jets-indigenous-flight-display-system.html

 

[Rahul Singh]

Samtel to build cockpit displays for Sukhoi-30s, more orders ahead

Delhi-based Samtel Display Systems has vaulted a giant hurdle on the way to its declared goal of becoming a major supplier to the armed forces. After a year of rigorous flight trials in the Indian Air Force's frontline Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, Samtel's home-built cockpit displays have been certified as suitable for introduction into frontline service.

Multi-Function Displays (MFD), as these cockpit displays are termed, are ranged in front of the Su-30MKI pilots. They get digital signals from dozens of sensors on various aircraft systems and display these to the pilot on an easy-to-read screen. A quick glance across his MFDs tells the pilot how his aircraft is flying and fighting.

So far, a French company, Thales, has provided the Sukhoi-30's high-tech MFDs. But Samtel has aggressively targeted this market, even choosing to go it alone rather than work through its joint venture with Thales. With Samtel's price significantly cheaper than Thales', Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), which builds the Sukhoi-30 at its Nashik facility, has placed orders on Samtel.

 

[maomao]

Cockpit of SU-30MKM similar to SU-30MKI:

 

[hitenray09]

mki is more advanced than mkm
apart from it mkm is derivative of mki but inferior to mki

 

[maomao]

mki is more advanced than mkm
apart from it mkm is derivative of mki but inferior to mki

I was pointing out the similarities in ergonomics of the cockpit not who is superior to whom!

 

[hitenray09]

ok my mistake im sorry for misinterpretation

 

[Sri]

Samtel-HAL Multi Function Displays Certified for Su-30 MKI Fighters; Deliveries Begin Next Week