Su-30 MKI

[Daredevil]

it's not me but a french pilot say this " otherwise"///

Otherwise is the operative word I used based on pilots statement where he said that "Rafale's have to seize the initiative within first minute" vs Su-30MKI indicating that if the opportunity is not seized within first minute then the Rafale's are dead-meat. This is my interpretation.

 

[hit&run]

Originally Posted by Armand2REP

Cons:
2) Every MKI that approached a Red SAM was shot down.

MKI weren't allowed countermeasures (flairs etc). Due to environmental reasons! (not certified!)?

3) High incidence of fratricide

Mentoined before. Even USAF had same numebers cause they were aggresive not spying.

 

[sandeepdg]

Hmm...U r giving rafale too much credit.

3)How can u tell its weapons r more varied? Till now French have inferior and less variety missiles than Russians or Americans.

Rafale will be ahead in RCS(but MKI has much stronger radar) and very good A to G capabilities.

Obviously Russian missile arsenal is more varied than the French, but I was referring to what is available in IAF inventory, mate. The R77 and R27 have ranges of 100-130 kms. Barring the R77, all missiles in IAF inventory are old and less formidable as compared to those of the Rafale like the MBDA Meteor in near future and Storm Shadow which has a range of 250 kms.

 

[luckyy]

Obviously Russian missile arsenal is more varied than the French, but I was referring to what is available in IAF inventory, mate. The R77 and R27 have ranges of 100-130 kms. Barring the R77, all missiles in IAF inventory are old and less formidable as compared to those of the Rafale like the MBDA Meteor in near future and Storm Shadow which has a range of 250 kms.

either 250km or 350 km......but the thumb rule is , to get the best results A2A missiles need to fire not more then 40km closein......

 

[Armand2REP]

Originally Posted by Armand2REP

Cons:
2) Every MKI that approached a Red SAM was shot down.

MKI weren't allowed countermeasures (flairs etc). Due to environmental reasons! (not certified!)?

Flares at Red Flag...

3) High incidence of fratricide

Mentoined before. Even USAF had same numebers cause they were aggresive not spying.

Who mentioned it? I never heard USAF saying they had high incidence of fratricide. If the 78 USAF fighters that were there had the same incidence as 6 MKIs, that is a bigger problem for MKI.

 

[hit&run]

Flares at Red Flag...

Where is MKI firing flairs?

Fratricides are to be blamed on controller not on pilots or jet completely. Red flag is controller's nightmare specially when directing MKIs which not compatible to US/Nato AWACS et al.

I am repeating it again cause your agenda is deteriorating your comprehension.

 

[black eagle]

Usually the look down range is 20-30% less than look-up range (unscientific observation). N011M bars of MKI has tracking range of 200km. And RBE2 AESA on Rafale has 120km tracking range for 3m2 target, tracking of range of APG-79 on F-18 is similar to Bars radar on MKI and there is not much reliable information on tracking range og Captor-M radar on Eurofighter.

Avionics Magazine :: Serious Squall
Bars radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
AN/APG-73 Radar System

thank you daredevil.

 

[Tshering22]

What is so astonishing about this? Sukhoi was able to deliver a mean machine that has pleased IAF to no bounds. Naturally, they're bound to choose the maker of the fighter, isn't it? I mean even when there was a time in the Mirage 2000 upgrade when Israel offered to upgrade the M-2000s cheaper than French, IAF still went for the makers of the aircraft rather than Israelis.

 

[arps]

Obviously Russian missile arsenal is more varied than the French, but I was referring to what is available in IAF inventory, mate. The R77 and R27 have ranges of 100-130 kms. Barring the R77, all missiles in IAF inventory are old and less formidable as compared to those of the Rafale like the MBDA Meteor in near future and Storm Shadow which has a range of 250 kms.

I was talking about currently available.I guess Rafale use Mica for long range A to A, which has very less range than anything R77 or AIMCx or Dx has.And I guess Meteor will be operational in about 2015.

 

[arps]

India don't trust US, France never sanctioned them. From what has been told, they very well did. Full use of BVR missiles and the M2000 pilot who even made reference to fighting against its "powerful radar." If it was in training mode, missiles would have been limited to Archer, not R-77 and M2000 pilots wouldn't be seeing a powerful radar.

Its just not about trust with USA. Remember in red flag Rafale was doing all types of spying (! LOL). Yes reference of "powerful radar", because he knows that MKI has much powerful radar than mirage, but it doesn't mean MKI was using its full potentials.
More over ur all arguments based on a french pilot(So its very logical that he may exaggerate a lot about his performance than the opponent).And even though u dont want to listen when this same pilot also said that if u miss the initial chance then (u r gone in front of MKI).He couldn't say these words(but u know English..right?) neither u wanna listen..

One more thing..In real complex fight situation..its very hard to decide in the ist see itself.. Anyway whats the range of mica missile in the most ideal altitude?
Then I will tell u how seeing MKI earlier at ist sight don't help Mirage or rafale.

 

[sandeepdg]

either 250km or 350 km......but the thumb rule is , to get the best results A2A missiles need to fire not more then 40km closein......

Dude, I am not talking about A2A capability here. The Storm Shadow is an A2G missile having a range of 250 km, everyone knows that you don't use an A2A missile with 250 km range !!! The IAF currently has nothing in its inventory to match it.

 

[bhramos]

IAF seeks govt nod to deploy Sukhois near China border

The Indian Air Force has sought the defence ministry's approval for ramping up a strategic airbase near the Chinese border in Ladakh to support full-scale fighter operations, a reflection of India's new assertiveness against Beijing. Venturing into uncharted territory to fortify India's defences


in the sensitive northern sector, the operationally critical Western Air Command (WAC) is pushing for upgrading the Nyoma airstrip into a "major" base capable of launching an entire range of operations.
WAC chief Air Marshal N.A.K. Browne said on Friday, "The idea is to expand Nyoma into a major airbase from where we can operate each and every platform in the air force's inventory, including fighters. The proposal is being examined by the ministry."

The Nyoma airstrip, 20 km from the Line of Actual Control between India and China, was activated last September after more than four decades.

Browne said: "It will take about four years to get Nyoma ready as a major base after we get the defence ministry's nod." The air force's AN-32 transport planes have undertaken training flights to newly-operationalised airbases in Ladakh, including Nyoma, to prepare its air and ground crews to operate these airstrips regularly.

The force wants to exploit airstrips at Daulet Beg Oldie and Fukche (two km from the LAC) to support troops deployed in India's farthest frontiers, close to areas illegally occupied by China and Pakistan.

It is also laying an elaborate network of radar systems and sensors along the LAC to fortify its air defence capabilities.

IAF seeks govt nod to deploy Sukhois near China border - Hindustan Times

 

[Patriot]

China tests renovated airfields and runways with Su-30 along Indian Border

BY: bharatglobe.com

India will upgrade IAF's Nyoma advanced landing ground (ALG) in Ladakh into a full-fledged air base closer to the borders with China to deploy its top-notch fighter jets including the Sukhois there.

The proposal for modernising the compact airstrip at Nyoma, just 23 kilometres from the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China, has gone to the Defence Ministry for approval, IAF's Western Air Command chief Air Marshal N A K Browne told a press conference here on Friday.

"Nyoma ALG is to be expanded into a major base and a proposal in this regard has been sent to the government. It is being currently examined actively by the Defence Ministry. If the approval comes today, it would take about four years to get it ready as a major base," Browne said.

"When we look at developing a base, in our view we have to be able to operate each and every platform of the Air Force at that base. It will not be confined to one or two types of aircraft alone," he said to a query if Sukhois could be deployed there permanently.

Stepping up its military activities in Tibet, the Chinese PLA has carried out a major exercise there with its Air Force that for the first time saw Sukhoi-30s being pressed into action. By operating Su-30s, the Chinese military was also able to test recently renovated airfields and runways.

As per Indian assessment, there are now seven airfields in Tibet from where Su-30s can operate. Two of these have been built recently.

While the exercise took place about two months ago, details have begun to emerge only recently and formed part of a detailed security review undertaken by Defence Minister A K Antony a few days ago. The Cabinet Committee on Security was also kept informed. The armed forces were of the view that there was no major cause for worry as India was also upgrading its capabilities.

From what is known so far, this was a division-level exercise but was also ambitious because the PLA had moved a mechanised formation into Tibet for this purpose. This mechanised outfit is essentially part of the Rapid Reaction Force which have been developed by the PLA to cope with future "small-scale, high intensity regional combat and military operations".

 

[Tshering22]

I don't see any reason why the GOI has to delay or hesitate to clear this decision. The Chinese practically have all of their PLAAF and PLA swarming all over the border with the rumours of them having a model of our border somewhere in deep mainland for training purposes for a war with us. Now considering that their soldiers have better protective gear, better weapons, ready weapons and available production of 24*7 not to mention they are almost one and a half times more in quantity, it makes us REALLY REALLY REALLY backward.

I hope GOI doesn't bow down to PLA and refuse the clearance.

 

[Patriot]

GOI now need to meet aggressive stance of Chinese with aggressive moves. Chinese are encircling us from all the strategic fronts, whether at military location near Laddkh, Arunachal Pradesh, Bay of Bangal or Indian ocean and even in economic sector and restricting our water resources by building dams as well . We all need to understand, all these are very well thought game plan of China and they are implementing it religiously.
We at India (GOI) just talk and talk and after talking bow down to pressure. Diplomacy is fine , it works at times provided it is backed by consistently prudent dynamic foreign policy.

Solution is just don't talk, make the equally effective counter moves and then follow the diplomacy. Give China mirror effect ....

 

[pmaitra]

I was under the impression that Nyoma and Daulat Beg Oldi were to be upgraded to make them fully operational for transport as well as fighter plane usability.

In my understanding, certain steps must be taken.

• Setup air bases and garrisons to protect these airbases near the Indo-China border/LAC.
• Deploy in operational readiness strike corps so that India can take over significant portion of PoK in case of a conflict with Pakistan and quickly call for ceasefire. That includes support for supply lines.
• Finish off this alternative all-weather route to Ladakh through the Karakoram as soon as possible.
• Fortify the North-East. Use prison labour if required.

We have indeed waited too long.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

INDIA has learnt a lesson once in the 1962 war. Hope the same thing is not repeated by the political establishment and the Central Government.............

 

[shaka]

Maybe one day we will see FGFA operating from eastern J & K airbases in a snow leopard camouflage, loaded with internal RVV-AEs

 

[plugwater]

India Eyes Su-30 AESA Upgrade

India is looking at fitting its Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters with Russian Phazotron Zhuk-AE active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars.

The X-band radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode and engage six targets simultaneously in attack mode. By 2018, the Indian air force inventory is expected to comprise around 300 Su-30MKIs.

India's Sukhois currently use N011M passive array technology, which delivers less peak power than an AESA. The N011M also has limitations in its back-end processing and requires more maintenance.

Defense Minister A.K. Antony recently told the Indian parliament about a proposal to upgrade the Indian air force's Su-30 fleet. The upgrade is be carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. and Russia's Irkutsk, the original equipment manufacturer, starting in 2012. It is likely that the order for the AESA also will be made simultaneously, as the radar will have to be integrated into most parts of the aircraft, including the navigation systems and engines.

The Su-30 entered service in India in 2000 — the purchase was approved in 1997 — and the aircraft have not been upgraded since.

AESA technology offers improved performance and reliability compared with traditional mechanically scanned array radars. India also has made it clear that having an AESA will be critical in the competition for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). For instance, the F-16IN is being proposed with the Northrop Grumman APG-80, while the F/A-18E/F is being bid with the Raytheon APG-78. All the other contenders have offered an AESA road map,

During the April trials for the MiG-35, the Zhuk AE test radar had a slightly smaller array than the production version would feature. The MiG-35 also is a contender in the MMRCA competition.

India would also expect to field an AESA on the fifth-generation fighter — the co-development and production effort with Russia built around the Sukhoi T-50.

India Eyes Su-30 AESA Upgrade | AVIATION WEEK

 

[chex3009]

I Think the IAF would be in formidable order around 2015 as of now we can only speed-up processes to hasten the MMRCA deal and induct LCA Tejas as quickly as possible.