Su-30 MKI

[StealthSniper]

Actually, the pilots were mixed 50-50 between experienced and inexperienced so don't go blaming their experience level. The F-15s they faced were mostly inexperienced operational pilots, but a couple instructor pilots did play with them. The biggest downside was not the pilots, but their reliance on TVC. As he mentioned, the V shape TVC caused too much drag and left them sinking in altitude. This was the error made by the "young guys." The other half being the experienced pilots were killed by other means.

Stop bullshitting and give me proof that the F-15 pilots were inexperienced operational fighter pilots, I don't take anything you say seriously so give me links.

Here's one for you:



Watch from 6 minute on, and the squadron team leader mentions the young pilots participating.

Yes, lets look at the facts. Rafale with AESA, Scalp EG and AASM had never been offered before all those F-15s, F-16s, and Eurofighters were being sold. Its radar was too weak, low options for stand-off weapons, and had no cueing helmet. Rafale has only been defeated in competition by A) F-15 in Korea as a political decision and B) Morocco to F-16 because our stupid government demanded an all or nothing comprehensive defence package. We do not have the political clout of the USA... what can we do but keep on improving Rafale until it is sold? The F3 has come of age and it is now time to claim its rightful place. As for Su-30s, what second world country is going to turn down a $40 million fighter that competes with Western legacy aircraft? Very few of Russia's fighter markets are shared by France and we have yet to lose to it.

I really think the reason why the Rafale never wins any competitions is because it does poorly in trials, hence why you see American and Russian aircraft flying in foreign airforces. I hope that's not the case but, it's very expensive and maybe the underpowered engines have something to do with it. I hope if India get's the Rafale, it isn't because of corruption (France is known for this) but on how well the aircraft performs.

 

[Armand2REP]

Stop bullshitting and give me proof that the F-15 pilots were inexperienced operational fighter pilots, I don't take anything you say seriously so give me links.

Here's one for you:

Watch from 6 minute on, and the squadron team leader mentions the young pilots participating.

Do you not know the difference between air crew and pilot?

I really think the reason why the Rafale never wins any competitions is because it does poorly in trials, hence why you see American and Russian aircraft flying in foreign airforces. I hope that's not the case but, it's very expensive and maybe the underpowered engines have something to do with it. I hope if India get's the Rafale, it isn't because of corruption (France is known for this) but on how well the aircraft performs.

It does poorly in trials yet ends up on every major short list. There goes that theory. I hope MiG-35 doesn't get kicked out for bribery, Russia is known for this. It seems MiG-35 has already been kicked for bad engines. Oh well...

 

[StealthSniper]

Here's one for you:

Wow, your so predictable, I knew your going to post that video. First of all, their is no way that the F-15 pilots that flew against our Su-30's are less experienced than our pilots, considering they came from training aircraft into the Su-30 (which was the "experimenting" that our squadron leader was talking about)

Secondly, the fact that he was comparing our Su-30 MKI (piloted by our young brave pilots) against the F-22 (the best plane in the world) must tell you how good the MKI is.

Thirdly, their is alot of wrong information in his presentation, and he's obviously very biased. Maybe you forgot to see he's an American pilot and OF COURSE he's going to say stuff aganist the Russian military hardware, why wouldn't he. So you can't take half the stuff he says seriously.

Do you not know the difference between air crew and pilot?

Do you know the difference between TEAM SQUADRON LEADER and a biased American pilot.

It does poorly in trials yet ends up on every major short list. There goes that theory. I hope MiG-35 doesn't get kicked out for bribery, Russia is known for this. It seems MiG-35 has already been kicked for bad engines. Oh well...

Well if the Rafale is so much better than the Eurofighter and F-16 you would think that other country defence planners would EASILY choose the Rafale because as you show, it has won alot of engagments, but even the Gripen is outselling it.

 

[Armand2REP]

Wow, your so predictable, I knew your going to post that video. First of all, their is no way that the F-15 pilots that flew against our Su-30's are less experienced than our pilots, considering they came from training aircraft into the Su-30 (which was the "experimenting" that our squadron leader was talking about)

Wow, that was who we were talking about so what other video was I going to post? Talk about one for the obvious.

Secondly, the fact that he was comparing our Su-30 MKI (piloted by our young brave pilots) against the F-22 (the best plane in the world) must tell you how good the MKI is.

Not really...

Thirdly, their is alot of wrong information in his presentation, and he's obviously very biased. Maybe you forgot to see he's an American pilot and OF COURSE he's going to say stuff aganist the Russian military hardware, why wouldn't he. So you can't take half the stuff he says seriously.

Does he have a reason to lie?

Do you know the difference between TEAM SQUADRON LEADER and a biased American pilot.

Do you know the difference between AIR CREW and PILOT? The man said AIR CREW,.. duh

Well if the Rafale is so much better than the Eurofighter and F-16 you would think that other country defence planners would EASILY choose the Rafale because as you show, it has won alot of engagments, but even the Gripen is outselling it.

Old news, old planes. A new generation has dawned. Lets see how the battle of the AESAs turns out.

 

[Armand2REP]

Anyway... MKI got pwned at Garuda... nothing more need be said.

 

[StealthSniper]

Wow, that was who we were talking about so what other video was I going to post? Talk about one for the obvious.



Not really...



Does he have a reason to lie?



Do you know the difference between AIR CREW and PILOT? The man said AIR CREW,.. duh



Old news, old planes. A new generation has dawned. Lets see how the battle of the AESAs turns out.

Typical Armand, you like to attack anything that's not French but when it comes down to it, our YOUNG pilots have done exceptionally well at Red Flag and we will learn from our mistakes and be better because of it. Co. Fornoff even mentioned himself that the pilots flying the MKI were young and he mentioned that once they know the full features of the MKI it can and will beat legacy aircraft like the F-15 and F-16. That's the whole reason we went to Red Flag, to learn different tactics and see how other airforces do things.

Also if you didn't understand that our Team Leader was talking about our PILOT's then you really have some problems and I can't help you their.

Lastly, I am surprised that the Rafale hasn't won foreign competitions because the French are good at bribing and corruption, but at the end of the day, we will see who wins the MMRCA and I hope it's a good decision.

 

[StealthSniper]

Anyway... MKI got pwned at Garuda... nothing more need be said.

Yet Russia sold Sukhoi's to at least 5 countries and Rafale got beat in competitions by an aircraft made in the 1970's (the F-16) and the Gripen (which our LCA is on par with). Again everything you say is spineless, but we all see how successful the Rafale REALLY is.

 

[bhramos]

Wow, your so predictable, I knew your going to post that video. First of all, their is no way that the F-15 pilots that flew against our Su-30's are less experienced than our pilots, considering they came from training aircraft into the Su-30 (which was the "experimenting" that our squadron leader was talking about)

Secondly, the fact that he was comparing our Su-30 MKI (piloted by our young brave pilots) against the F-22 (the best plane in the world) must tell you how good the MKI is.

Thirdly, their is alot of wrong information in his presentation, and he's obviously very biased. Maybe you forgot to see he's an American pilot and OF COURSE he's going to say stuff aganist the Russian military hardware, why wouldn't he. So you can't take half the stuff he says seriously.





Do you know the difference between TEAM SQUADRON LEADER and a biased American pilot.



Well if the Rafale is so much better than the Eurofighter and F-16 you would think that other country defence planners would EASILY choose the Rafale because as you show, it has won alot of engagments, but even the Gripen is outselling it.

the best point he mentioned is that IAF Mig-21Bis are the best with compared to F-15& F-16.
With Less radar signature and Israeli jammers it becomes stealth. almost invisible to any Fighter with best missiles on it makes it deadly fighter.........

 

[bhramos]

Yet Russia sold Sukhoi's to at least 5 countries and Rafale got beat in competitions by an aircraft made in the 1970's (the F-16) and the Gripen (which our LCA is on par with). Again everything you say is spineless, but we all see how successful the Rafale REALLY is.

tell me about Rafale, how many Wars did it participate and how did it had A2A kills, the same was told in the Video...........

 

[StealthSniper]

the best point he mentioned is that IAF Mig-21Bis are the best with compared to F-15& F-16.
With Less radar signature and Israeli jammers it becomes stealth. almost invisible to any Fighter with best missiles on it makes it deadly fighter.........

Yes Bhramos, the best aircraft in the world doesn't always win. Great Teamwork, great tactics, and great pilots will always win the fight.

 

[hit&run]

@armand
No Indian channel Air hyper technical contents for their viewers, may air sensational crap.

Nor i trust Vishnu som neither US briefer. I trust IAF, India chose MKI agings french jets. This tells the whole story. French lost it against MKI and Russians won it when bought these planes. We are still purchasing 40 more. French Failed.

Your argument will be weighted manifold if Rafael will win MRCA.

As far as command controller excuse is concerned, no one form American side contradicted it. Even french were winging about American accent, the same french whose leader was there before red flag 2008 in nevada and were coming from recent missions with NATO forces in Afghanistan.
If you are operating in training mode and are highly dependent on controller then i will bet every thing to believe in NDTV reporter. US Controller were busy cranky and arrogant as usual specially when giving voice over commands to Indians.

Now again after 8~ years after doing comprehensive spying they are pitching their jets with so called superior avionics and data link, is what i called as opportunistic endorsement. Rafael failed last time and wasn't able to convince India when we bought MKIs off the shelf. IAF still trust in MKI and we are purchasing 42 more. As far as you obnoxious claim that MKI are not well integrated with AWACS then please claim it with some proof not with you hypothesis.

 

[Armand2REP]

We didn't lose anything to MKI. IAF comes to us asking for more Mirage-2000 but we have to say sorry, that jet is obsolete and we don't make it anymore. We can offer Rafale, India says fine, but we have to hold a competition. France and India don't ever have closed tenders, we compete with everyone. Russia likes the closed state-state deals since they know their equipment can't hold up with the best of the West. Makes a perfect excuse for corruption.

 

[shaka]

it will be two Brahmos equipped Squadrons ...

Luckyy
Do you have any more info, any links, eg. where these are going to be based etc.

 

[sandeepdg]

We didn't lose anything to MKI. IAF comes to us asking for more Mirage-2000 but we have to say sorry, that jet is obsolete and we don't make it anymore. We can offer Rafale, India says fine, but we have to hold a competition. France and India don't ever have closed tenders, we compete with everyone. Russia likes the closed state-state deals since they know their equipment can't hold up with the best of the West. Makes a perfect excuse for corruption.

Okay, we get the point that the Rafale is superior to the MKI !! There's no doubt that the Rafale has more advanced avionics that the current MKI version, it has better dogfighting capabilities than the MKI, has a lower RCS offering a greater degree of stealth and has a greater variety and versatility of weapon loads as compared to the MKI ! But the fact of the matter is, and this is important, that none of our adversaries are buying the Rafale or have anything equivalent to it in their armories now and won't have in the near future !! And with the next set of upgrades on the MKI, there will be hardly anything to counter it in our adversaries armory, so the fact is that we continue to have an edge over them even in the near future !! And by the middle of the next decade we are hopeful of getting the PAK-FA, and when that happens there will be no aircraft to match us in Asia, as we will the only airforce operating a 5th genr. fighter other than the Isrealis of course, considering they get their F-35s by that time which is still not very clear! Then again, Israel is a friend and not a foe ! Cannot comment on the Japanese or Chinese 5th genr. fighter programs since nothing is clear about
them. And anyway, I don't see any body else interested in buying the Rafale, other than the UAE !

 

[arps]

Okay, we get the point that the Rafale is superior to the MKI !! There's no doubt that the Rafale has more advanced avionics that the current MKI version, it has better dogfighting capabilities than the MKI, has a lower RCS offering a greater degree of stealth and has a greater variety and versatility of weapon loads as compared to the MKI ! But the fact of the matter is, and this is important, that none of our adversaries are buying the Rafale or have anything equivalent to it in their armories now and won't have in the near future !! And with the next set of upgrades on the MKI, there will be hardly anything to counter it in our adversaries armory, so the fact is that we continue to have an edge over them even in the near future !! And by the middle of the next decade we are hopeful of getting the PAK-FA, and when that happens there will be no aircraft to match us in Asia, as we will the only airforce operating a 5th genr. fighter other than the Isrealis of course, considering they get their F-35s by that time which is still not very clear! Then again, Israel is a friend and not a foe ! Cannot comment on the Japanese or Chinese 5th genr. fighter programs since nothing is clear about
them. And anyway, I don't see any body else interested in buying the Rafale, other than the UAE !

Hmm...U r giving rafale too much credit.
1) In dog-fight mki still rules(except F22 and some way typhoon).
2)With much much stronger radars, israili avoinics with strong jammars and russian advance IRST etc. its really uncertainly very close call for A to A
3)How can u tell its weapons r more varied? Till now French have inferior and less variety missiles than Russians or Americans.

Rafale will be ahead in RCS(but MKI has much stronger radar) and very good A to G capabilities.

 

[arps]

Pros:

1) High level of professionalism
2) 95% availability rate
3) Adapted well to US training rules

Cons:

1) MKI in clean config was "dominated" by loaded F-15s in 1v1
2) Every MKI that approached a Red SAM was shot down
3) High incidence of fratricide

In my judgment, IAF pilots won. MKI lost.

1)There can be a lot training procedures.After all that guy himself(after all his chest thumping) accepted that MKI standard is way above than F15 or F16s.
2)MkI has this weakness in A to G role(though they didnt use flairs etc).Thats why IAF should get a strong strike fighter for MMARCA.
3)MKI radar was in training mode( big disadvantage) ..

More over from 2010 onwords MKI should be using their latest, a bunch of new avoinics for all the latest production of MKIs.

 

[Armand2REP]

1)There can be a lot training procedures.After all that guy himself(after all his chest thumping) accepted that MKI standard is way above than F15 or F16s.
2)MkI has this weakness in A to G role(though they didnt use flairs etc).Thats why IAF should get a strong strike fighter for MMARCA.
3)MKI radar was in training mode( big disadvantage) ..

More over from 2010 onwords MKI should be using their latest, a bunch of new avoinics for all the latest production of MKIs.

Lets move to 2010, Garuda IV showed MKI could not handle Rafale and Mirage-2000-5 "even with her powerful radar."

 

[StealthSniper]

Lets move to 2010, Garuda IV showed MKI could not handle Rafale and Mirage-2000-5 "even with her powerful radar."

Yeah and our Sukhoi Su-30 beat the F-22 at Red Flag with the radar turned off. Show us proof about the results at Garuda.

 

[Armand2REP]

Yeah and our Sukhoi Su-30 beat the F-22 at Red Flag with the radar turned off. Show us proof about the results at Garuda.

I know you have selective memory, so go back to 927 and refresh it.

 

[StealthSniper]

I know you have selective memory, so go back to 927 and refresh it.

Yup just what I thought, you are getting your information from a French magazine (called Air and Cosmos) and done by a French editor called Bernard Bombeau. They know that the Rafale is competing in the MMRCA and they are going to be obviously favorable to the Rafale. Considering that they can't sell a Rafale even if their life depended on it, I wouldn't be surprised if they said that the Rafale can beat a F-22 lol.