Su-30 MKI

[neo29]

HAL proposes upgrade for IAF's Su-30 MKI fighters

The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has proposed over Rs 10,900 crore upgrade for the Su-30 MKI fighters of the Indian Air Force with Russian help, the Rajya Sabha was informed on Wednesday.

"There is a proposal to upgrade the Su-30 MKI of the IAF with the support of Russian original equipment manufacturer," Defence Minister A K Antony said in a written reply.

The current estimated cost of the upgrades is Rs 10,920 crores and the aircrafts are likely to be upgraded in a phased manner from 2012, he added.

The SU-30s were inducted into the IAF in late 90s and at present six squadrons of the aircraft are in service.

The first squadron of the Su-30 http://idrw.org/?p=451was of the 'K' variant but later they were also upgraded to the latest MKI version.

Till now, the IAF has placed orders for around 272 of these heavy air-superiority aircraft of which over 100 have been inducted.

IAF is already upgrading its two main fighter aircraft fleet of 60 MiG-29s and is about to sign an around USD two billion deal with France to modernise its 50 Mirage aircraft.

The Jaguar, MiG-27 and MiG-21 fleets have already been upgraded by the force.

http://idrw.org/?p=451

 

[luckyy]

News X channel is crap. They have no source, very unreliable & hard to believe.
Last week, News X channel also reported that SU-MKI-30's unit price is equal to F35. They also claimed that MRCA deal is 20+ billon USD with more than 200 orders. Indian Defense media is a joke!

india is a multi-multi billion $ arm market , and it is just opened for amaricans....US can't grab these bn$ without knocking russians out.....
funding will go to every one...

 

[shaka]

It will be interesting to see what gets upgraded. I would expect new, more powerfull jamming equipment, upgraded BARS PESA. Will be interesting to see where IAF bases two Brahmos equipped Squadrons. Or is it going to be 2-3 fighters in every squadron. Since total no. of MKIs modified to carry Brahmos will be around 40. Has somebody got any info on that?

 

[JAISWAL]

in the first week June 2010, the Cabinet Committee on Security cleared the purchase of 42 additional Su-30MKI Super 30 aircraft.

The 'Super' variant of the Su-30MKI have the radar, onboard computer annd EWS to launch the airborne version of the supersonic Brahmos missile, and later the strategic subsonic Nirbhay cruise missile with a range of 1,000 km.



http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&so...sg=AFQjCNEsEjzTh7X8OAyrASge2Lanp14xrQ&cad=rja

 

[JAISWAL]

news by russian sorce of mki upgrade

India could spend up to $2.34 billion on modernization of its fleet of Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighters with the participation of Russian companies, the country's Defense Ministry said on Wednesday.
The upgrade program may proceed in several stages, starting from 2012, at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), with assistance from the warplanes' Russian manufacturers, the Defense Ministry said.
Indian media reported in May that the modernization project, codenamed Super 30, would involve the installation of new radars, onboard computers, avionics and BrahMos supersonic missiles on 40 Su-30MKI fighters.
The Indian Air Force currently operates about 100 Su-30MKI fighters and plans to produce another 170 aircraft in the next 10 years under a license from Russia.






http://en.rian.ru/world/20100818/160249535.html


http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=30&ved=0CDoQFjAJOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.rian.ru%2Fworld%2F20100818%2F160249535.html&rct=j&q=su%2030mki%20upgrade&ei=98tsTNjiD9K6cZaG5G4&usg=AFQjCNFHsl3zdnw-W8tNQAMBFcCtG7mcaQ&cad=rja

 

[Armand2REP]

not aginst Rafale before redflag

As the USAF guy said, we've been sniffing trons since the first Gulf War. You don't think the Mirage-2000-5 can't do it? Same processing MDPU as Rafale with the Thales Serval RWR is more than capable.

We do not have SU MKIs export version to make fanboy videos. Also no one here is making MKI look Godlike. There were kills but with 95% mission launch ratio. You are blaming 4-5 incidents of fratricides on MKI but responsibility for the fratricides were to put on the fighter controllers not on the pilots and the plane.

It isn't a fanboy video, it is from the ALA. Also everyone here is trying to make MKI better than Rafale. I see you like to read Vishnu Som, who has no numbers for MKI engagements except the frat. I heard MKI frat just as many of Blue Team as they killed of Red Team. So much so IAF pilots were "sensitive" to the issue. What I do know is MKI had 10 engagements in the first two days of ACM, according to the USAF Col., they were "dominated" by the aggressor squadrons. According to Vishnu, they held their own. Who am I going to believe? A Nellis officer who was in the control room watching the battle unfold, or a reporter who was not in the debrief? The commander said Rafale rarely entered the merge, well we had no choice in the first two days. 8 slated engagements... 6:2 Rafale. I even got video of the report...


Agressor F-16 pilot admits Rafale is technically superior yet it all comes down to the training of the pilot, yet their best pilots were killed 3:1.

working with less restrictions against single engine 70-80s F16

You want to downplay the achievement, but these 1988 F-16s are better dog-fighters than the current block 52s. This was dog-fighting without Gerfaut helmet locks and MICA with three fuel tanks and AMCI pod. F-16s were carrying two AIM-9 and an AMCI pod. It came down to two things, the maneuverability of the plane and the training of the pilot. Rafale proved superior in all flight characteristics to a plane that is considered one of the best dog-fighters. Watch the same F-16 kill F-15s only carrying two AIM-9 that "dominated" the MKI when they were carrying four AIM-9, two drop-tanks and an AMCI pod.


And as for Su-30MKI at Garuda IV, everything generally went in in the French favour.

It was with that ( of course simulated ) weapons have had to deal the French pilots who opposed him Mica EM / IR (Mirage 2000 -5F and Rafale F3), Super 530D and Magic 2 (Mirage 2000RDI). And in general they believe that everything went in our favor . Of course , recognizes the pilot Mirage 2000 -5F, their powerful radar allowed them before we learn about the situation in the sky , but we proved radar is not everything.

http://russiadefence.englishboard.net/india-f20/garuda-iv-t928.htm#4027

So we have Rafale dominating the best of USAF F-16 pilots, RAF Typhoons and IAF MKIs. It might not be fair to use Rafale F3 as aggressors, but they couldn't even handle Mirage-2000-5. France wanted to make point to IAF that they need French planes, well they showed them latest Mirage-2000 and Rafale are better.

 

[wild goose]

A Nellis officer who was in the control room watching the battle unfold, or a reporter who was not in the debrief?

Can you please re-check this with your source.

And also isn't it safe to assume that Rep. Vishnu Som had access to some of the IAF officers participating, and his side of the detail is based on what they said to him.

 

[Armand2REP]

Considering Vishnu never bothered to report it on NDTV, it must not have been important enough to find out. If MKI was winning as he "suggests" in his post at BR forums, I am sure that would have gone on a Red Flag exclusive.

 

[luckyy]

It will be interesting to see what gets upgraded. I would expect new, more powerfull jamming equipment, upgraded BARS PESA. Will be interesting to see where IAF bases two Brahmos equipped Squadrons. Or is it going to be 2-3 fighters in every squadron. Since total no. of MKIs modified to carry Brahmos will be around 40. Has somebody got any info on that?

it will be two Brahmos equipped Squadrons ...

 

[arya]

guys we have two best option euro and rafale

but i think we cant get any thing till us president visit

and may be f18 can win the race

 

[wild goose]

Considering Vishnu never bothered to report it on NDTV, it must not have been important enough to find out. If MKI was winning as he "suggests" in his post at BR forums, I am sure that would have gone on a Red Flag exclusive.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/11/livefist-column-vishnu-som-first-hand.html

As the only Indian journalist who spent a lengthy period of time at Nellis after being granted permission by both the Indian Air Force and the US Air Force, I was granted access to impeccable sources in both forces. Whats more, I was able to independently corroborate this information with reliable, alternative sources.

So was the Indian Air Force invincible at Red Flag. In a word "¦ no. So yes, there were certainly days in which several Sukhoi jets were shot down. And there were others when they shot down many opposing jets. Ultimately though "¦ the success of the Indian Air Force at Red Flag lay in the fact that they could meet their mission objectives as well, if not better, than any other participant. Despite the hot weather conditions, the IAF had a 95 per cent mission launch ratio, far better than some of the participants. And no one went into the exercises thinking the score line would be a perfect one in favour of the IAF. In fact "¦ the IAF went into these exercises with an open mind and with full admiration of the world beating range at Nellis with an unmatched system of calibrating engagement results.Perhaps the most encouraging part of these exercises comes from the fact that the Indian Air Force's young pilots "¦ learnt from their mistakes, analysed, appreciated and came back strong. Mistakes were not repeated. In fact "¦ the missions where the IAF did not fare well turned out to be immense learning experiences. At the end of the exercises "¦ its more than clear that the IAF's Su-30s were more than a match for the variants of the jets participating at the Red Flag exercises. Considering the fact that the central sensor of the Sukhoi, its radar "¦ held up just fine in training mode "¦despite the barrage of electronic jamming augurs well for the Indian Air Force.

Sorry, I couln't find any suggestions as MKI winning. If you have any other articles with "suggestions" of MKI winning, please post the link.

 

[Armand2REP]

Look no further than your own post...

its more than clear that the IAF's Su-30s were more than a match for the variants of the jets participating at the Red Flag exercises.

 

[wild goose]

Look no further than your own post...

Different people set different standard for winning. Mine and yours is not the same

 

[Armand2REP]

Different people set different standard for winning. Mine and yours is not the same

Pros:

1) High level of professionalism
2) 95% availability rate
3) Adapted well to US training rules

Cons:

1) MKI in clean config was "dominated" by loaded F-15s in 1v1
2) Every MKI that approached a Red SAM was shot down
3) High incidence of fratricide

In my judgment, IAF pilots won. MKI lost.

 

[luckyy]

20 billon dollars worth of contracts have been signed by Russian and Indian defence companies over the past seven months.
http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/08/19/16444721.html

 

[wild goose]

Cons:

1) MKI in clean config was "dominated" by loaded F-15s in 1v1
2) Every MKI that approached a Red SAM was shot down
3) High incidence of fratricide

In my judgment, IAF pilots won. MKI lost.

1) Probably.

Those F15s may be having experience in training with their own F22s. But, it will be interesting to check about the availability of AWACS and who were the controllers.

2) Were they using any counter measures available?

3) So did the USAF even with LINK 16, IFF Mode 4 etc.

IMHO, Redflag 2008 (Col. Fornoff videos) should not be the only yardstick to evaluate the MKI forever.

 

[Armand2REP]

I have heard on a bunch of Indian sites saying USAF suffered the same # of frats. What is the source of that?

 

[StealthSniper]

First of all, the pilots that flew our Sukhoi fighters were very young and not that experienced and they might have made mistakes that our more experienced pilots might not have made (and Col. Fornoff even mentioned some things that our pilots did that they will correct in the future). Secondly all these "reports" that you hear about the F-15 dominating the Sukhoi is pretty understandable considering we were at THEIR base, with THEIR rules, with our young pilots and you aren't going to expect American pilots to say that the Russian equipment is better, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Armand, we understand your hatred with Russian products and how everything the French made is made out of gold, but I don't get delusional with pride and I look at the facts, and the F-15, F-16, Sukhoi, MiG, and Eurofighter have sold more units than Rafale has and I am going to trust what defence planners go with rather than what you say.

 

[wild goose]

I have heard on a bunch of Indian sites saying USAF suffered the same # of frats. What is the source of that?

There was an article by David A Fulghum in Aviation Week and Space Technology contemporary to Red Flag 2008.

Don't know if he is Indian.

IIRC, there was also a review by an US analyst in F16.net almost the same period.

 

[Armand2REP]

First of all, the pilots that flew our Sukhoi fighters were very young and not that experienced and they might have made mistakes that our more experienced pilots might not have made (and Col. Fornoff even mentioned some things that our pilots did that they will correct in the future). Secondly all these "reports" that you hear about the F-15 dominating the Sukhoi is pretty understandable considering we were at THEIR base, with THEIR rules, with our young pilots and you aren't going to expect American pilots to say that the Russian equipment is better, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Actually, the pilots were mixed 50-50 between experienced and inexperienced so don't go blaming their experience level. The F-15s they faced were mostly inexperienced operational pilots, but a couple instructor pilots did play with them. The biggest downside was not the pilots, but their reliance on TVC. As he mentioned, the V shape TVC caused too much drag and left them sinking in altitude. This was the error made by the "young guys." The other half being the experienced pilots were killed by other means.

Armand, we understand your hatred with Russian products and how everything the French made is made out of gold, but I don't get delusional with pride and I look at the facts, and the F-15, F-16, Sukhoi, MiG, and Eurofighter have sold more units than Rafale has and I am going to trust what defence planners go with rather than what you say.

Yes, lets look at the facts. Rafale with AESA, Scalp EG and AASM had never been offered before all those F-15s, F-16s, and Eurofighters were being sold. Its radar was too weak, low options for stand-off weapons, and had no cueing helmet. Rafale has only been defeated in competition by A) F-15 in Korea as a political decision and B) Morocco to F-16 because our stupid government demanded an all or nothing comprehensive defence package. We do not have the political clout of the USA... what can we do but keep on improving Rafale until it is sold? The F3 has come of age and it is now time to claim its rightful place. As for Su-30s, what second world country is going to turn down a $40 million fighter that competes with Western legacy aircraft? Very few of Russia's fighter markets are shared by France and we have yet to lose to it.