Stumpp Schuele & Somappa Defence LTD

Lonewarrior

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I don't care if they are copying foreign OEM designs as if OFB is building equipments from it's own R&D manufacturing Dhanush TAR and other AK copies.
But SSS defence should manufacture all of these equipments locally.
I think you should take a look at my first post, it's not that bad.
And please don't bring whataboutism to counter an argument.
 

Assassin 2.0

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I think you should take a look at my first post, it's not that bad.
And please don't bring whataboutism to counter an argument.
I'm not making counter arguments i would like yo to know that they are manufacturing these world class equipment in india or they are simply importing?
I shared my opinion that i don't care if they copy from other OEM. Many countries make A grade copies of M416 and of AKS so their is practically nothing wrong in that.
 

Lonewarrior

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I'm not making counter arguments i would like yo to know that they are manufacturing these world class equipment in india or they are simply importing?
I shared my opinion that i don't care if they copy from other OEM. Many countries make A grade copies of M416 and of AKS so their is practically nothing wrong in that.
My gut feeling, the are just using off the self equipments. Albeit, with all marking filed down to avoid identification.
If they try to simply copy them then they will end up with some serious IPR infringement cases. We are not China.
 

ezsasa

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My gut feeling, the are just using off the self equipments. Albeit, with all marking filed down to avoid identification.
If they try to simply copy them then they will end up with some serious IPR infringement cases. We are not China.
Arey baba!!! Why so much negativity?
they haven’t even sold proper numbers yet, for this level of scrutiny.

their business model
their choice.

I’d say our interest should be on how much defence capex is retained in the country and supply chain for large orders outside of OFB.

nobody ever said, pioneering is an cakewalk.

chill Saar!!!
 
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Assassin 2.0

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My gut feeling, the are just using off the self equipments. Albeit, with all marking filed down to avoid identification.
If they try to simply copy them then they will end up with some serious IPR infringement cases. We are not China.
So you have no source to back your claims of that they are just importing stuff.
So till the time you don't bring sources which back you I'm going with What OEM claims that their products are indigenous made.

Well till now SSS defence is selling these equipments to foreign nations and i don't think that this IPR will cause issues of sale in india.

Even coping world class equipment requires effort that is the reason why OFB took decades to build a decent AK copy TAR (which even sub African countries are able to manufacture). Leave about thinking building M-4 and all by ofb.

 

Lonewarrior

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So you have no source to back your claims of that they are just importing stuff.
So till the time you don't bring sources which back you I'm going with What OEM claims that their products are indigenous made.

Well till now SSS defence is selling these equipments to foreign nations and i don't think that this IPR will cause issues of sale in india.

Even coping world class equipment requires effort that is the reason why OFB took decades to build a decent AK copy TAR (which even sub African countries are able to manufacture). Leave about thinking building M-4 and all by ofb.

So you want sources?
I'm extremely sorry sir, but my field of expertise is firearms, not in providing sources. Indeed, feel free to believe in anyone's claims. I'm here to present my POV not to change yours.

Your 2nd para about SSS Defense selling equipment to foreign nations sounds bit unheard. Please update me if I'm missing some information.

I totally agree with you on this. Sometimes copying can even prove more difficult than developing from scratch.
And that's the point here. They are not copying. They are buying different parts from different OEMs and simply assembling them.
 
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Emperor Kalki

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Sorry I just missed your post, my bad. Sure, I can.

A. Modifications of SVD.
1. A modified LSS XL Gen-2 stock from MDT in place of original. Modified because they made it foldable, the original is fixed.
2. Pistol grip is the same that's offered by MDT.
3. It's hard to say about the top rails and handguard assembly, as there aren't much media related to SSS's SVD available.

B. Now coming to P-72s.
1. The buttstock assembly is the same used on Masada/ACR. In some pics it seems like they tried to replicate that by 3D printing. Design wise, ditto.
2. In some pics the pistol grip is the one from MDT and in others it's the good ol' A2 grip of AR-15.
3. I'm pretty sure that an AK Fire Control Group is used. How? Guessing by the position of hammer and trigger pins. Also if you look closely, the fire selector switch's "wings" are reversed on both sides, a telltale sign of Kalashnikovs.
4. It uses AK mags. In some pics it's Magpul and in some it's PRO MAG (ya pro mag 😑).
The magazine release is same paddle type, just the paddle levers are turned 90° instead of straight. As an AK mag, there is no Bolt Hold Open.
5. The bolt carrier group seems like a modified AK one. Modifications including a new bolt carrier with charging handle and no attached bolt carrier extension or piston. This also means they changed the recoil spring assembly.
6. Not sure, but it can be a short stroke piston operated. Not a big deal, given there past experience with Dragunov which is also a SS piston rifle. The piston heads of both AK and SVD are of 10-12mm diameter, so again it can used there.
7. The upper-lower-handguard seems bit dubious to me. In some pics it looks like stamped sheet steel, milled aluminium in some and interestingly the texture in some pics resemble 3D printed plastic.

Again these are what I deduced solely from some pics. I can be totally wrong here. I'm not claiming something. Anyone can feel free to correct me.
Ok, speculating based on your post, it would most probably have ak based trigger mechanism, bolt carrier, bolt locking and ejector, and if it has a short stroke piston, most probably the rest of the systems would be similar to scar including the charging handle.
So essentially an ak in the lower reciever and a scar in the upper reciever...right?
 

Lonewarrior

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Ok, speculating based on your post, it would most probably have ak based trigger mechanism, bolt carrier, bolt locking and ejector, and if it has a short stroke piston, most probably the rest of the systems would be similar to scar including the charging handle.
So essentially an ak in the lower reciever and a scar in the upper reciever...right?
Well yes, but not really.
SCAR uses a tappet piston and bolt carrier extension. From pics it seems that this one uses op-rod type short stroke piston.
So the only thing left is charging handle. And ya, it's very much like a SCAR.

It's more like an AK-Dragunov hybrid.
 

Emperor Kalki

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Well yes, but not really.
SCAR uses a tappet piston and bolt carrier extension. From pics it seems that this one uses op-rod type short stroke piston.
So the only thing left is charging handle. And ya, it's very much like a SCAR.

It's more like an AK-Dragunov hybrid.
Well i had no idea scar used bolt carrier extension. Is it similar to ones on AR 15 style rifles. Do you have any pics or something. I searched but couldn't find any.
 

Lonewarrior

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Well i had no idea scar used bolt carrier extension. Is it similar to ones on AR 15 style rifles. Do you have any pics or something. I searched but couldn't find any.
No not like ARs.
Just search "SCAR bolt carrier" pics. The long projection from the carrier, above the bolt is its extension. The tappet piston impinges on its end to initiate the cycling.
 

Emperor Kalki

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No not like ARs.
Just search "SCAR bolt carrier" pics. The long projection from the carrier, above the bolt is its extension. The tappet piston impinges on its end to initiate the cycling.
Oh an extension in that sense....ok....i thought it would be like the ones on AR to its back and i have been looking at all i could gather on the scar but behind the carrier....🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️....didn't know that.....anyway, thanks..👍
And i thought it would be the same way for p 72 too, you know, with the upward extension..what made you think otherwise....the barrel length to ejector port position comparison or something....?🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Johny_Baba

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View attachment 51770
View attachment 51771
I thought these.... projections or whatever...in the trigger guard were the mag release......
Oh that is magazine release on P-72 ? 😐
It just looks so...awkward to me.Kinda short and ;less tactical; for a supposed MODERN rifle.

IMHO they should've just let original AK style paddle on it with semi-circular tabs on side for tactical reloads,something like Beryl
1593698772014.png

looks simple but works great.

or if they wanted something modern looking stuff,then a simple stuff like this would have been much better over what they're giving currently

1593699301735.png

can serve like regular AK magazine release as well as tactical one

some other alternative designs that i found from google
1593699372656.png


this one's on CMMG Mk-47 ;Mutant; which is 7.62x39mm AR-15,feeding from same AK mags too
1593699383947.png
 

Emperor Kalki

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Oh that is magazine release on P-72 ? 😐
It just looks so...awkward to me.Kinda short and ;less tactical; for a supposed MODERN rifle.

IMHO they should've just let original AK style paddle on it with semi-circular tabs on side for tactical reloads,something like Beryl
View attachment 51798
looks simple but works great.

or if they wanted something modern looking stuff,then a simple stuff like this would have been much better over what they're giving currently

View attachment 51803
can serve like regular AK magazine release as well as tactical one

some other alternative designs that i found from google
View attachment 51804

this one's on CMMG Mk-47 ;Mutant; which is 7.62x39mm AR-15,feeding from same AK mags too
View attachment 51805
Fair point...as i mentioned earlier, its their first iteration right, just let them have their bit of learning from this one and the ones after....they sure would be getting some feedback after trials (internal and user).... let's see if they keep it so or change it....i would definitely like to see how their lmg would turn out to be...
 

Lonewarrior

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Oh an extension in that sense....ok....i thought it would be like the ones on AR to its back and i have been looking at all i could gather on the scar but behind the carrier....🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️....didn't know that.....anyway, thanks..👍
And i thought it would be the same way for p 72 too, you know, with the upward extension..what made you think otherwise....the barrel length to ejector port position comparison or something....?🤷🏻‍♂️
IMG_20200702_195938.jpg

This is just my guessing, may be I'm completely wrong.

On 1 there seems to be the gas block assembly. 3 is the charging handle, which means it's the top most position of the bolt carrier. Now it you look in the area between bolt carrier and gas block; 2, there seems to be nothing. If there was any carrier extension like thing, then those slot would have been blocked.
 

Kchontha

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Assoult rifles designing and manufacturing is not rocket science. All assault rifles are either a copy of ak or ar. Ssss is doing a fine job n may they kick the hell out of the chetoos seller.
 

Emperor Kalki

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View attachment 51806
This is just my guessing, may be I'm completely wrong.

On 1 there seems to be the gas block assembly. 3 is the charging handle, which means it's the top most position of the bolt carrier. Now it you look in the area between bolt carrier and gas block; 2, there seems to be nothing. If there was any carrier extension like thing, then those slot would have been blocked.
Yeah, good one....that's spot on...I completely missed that the area is a void unlike the scar and so here the piston setup and the recoil spring must be at the same level....good eye man...good eye...😏
 

tarrakiao

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Sometimes copying can even prove more difficult than developing from scratch.
And that's the point here. They are not copying. They are buying different parts from different OEMs and simply assembling them.
 

Emperor Kalki

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Why don't someone just prepare that questionnaire and send it to them so that we can get this over with......🤷‍♂️
 

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