Startegy and Scenario's

[ARVION]

Prelude to the Shaksgam Valley's .

The importance of the Shaksgam Valley .

The Shaksgam valley also many times referred as the Trans-Karakoram Tract .

It has an area of more than 7,000 Sq . KM . Lies exactly between the Siachen Glacier by north and by south to the pamir plateau . It was historically part of india until Pak's hot an effecti control of the valley since 1948 . In 1962 the effective control f the valley was transferred to he China's PRC's . On 13 , october 1962 , it's effective control was transferred by the Pak's PM's Zurlifkar Ali Bhutto's in 1962 to Chinese Goverment's by the presence of the foreign ministers Chen Yi . After the Signing of the Agrement's of the Sino Pak's Friendship agrement's .

In 1959 the Pakistani government became concerned over Chinese maps that showed areas the Pakistanis considered their own as part of China. In 1961 Ayub Khan sent a formal note to China; there was no reply. It is thought that the Chinese might not have been motivated to negotiate with Pakistan because of Pakistan's relations with India. This was part of the Pak's startegy to subdue the Indian Infulence's by encouraging the PRC's to increase it's presence n the the Disputed area's .

Environment

While most of the valley lies in a lower area to the siachen's , most of it's is a made of mountains surrounded by vast barron's land's and and high altitude cimate's make it difficult fr any vegetation and life . The extreme tempatue's drops significantly during the night's. Abd during winter is covered by thin blanket of snow. Unlike Siachen Siachen meant's rapidly owing to it's location and lower altitude to the siachen's .

In next post's the presence of the Chinese's PLAGF's forces will be discussede's .

 

[ARVION]

The wolf's Betweens the Sheep's .

The Presence of the PLAGF,s has been since the 1962's , the chinese deployment's was always limited's in the valley due to the extreme's distance and been unable to post any commander's due to the extreme's Terraine's and Climatic's Coditione's and unavalibility of the Infrastructure in the regione's to the Valley's .

But it's all change's in early 2000,s and with the expansion of the infrastructure to the valley , meant that the chinese were able to access the valley all year around . It's was further strengthened by the Construction of the variou's posts in and around the Valley's . The further implication happened since 2008's with construction of various infrastructure and structure's constructed to support a long time deployed Force's .

 

[ARVION]

Importance of the Skasgam Valley to India .

The valley lies just west of the Karakoram Pasa means they the chinsea could easily access to our's DBO's road's and Ladakh's to a greater extent's and would result in an access to our's area's . The Chinese presence in the valley was always an alarming situation to us until the expansion of the chinese infracture's surrounding Ladakh's and other's area's resulting in a greater dia advantage to us that we had until now's . Another implicatione's is that we have rightful claim to the Saksgam valley's as part's of our's territory's that is occupied by the Chinese along with our's other's terrotrie's and area's .

 

[ARVION]

An Grapicsl Video explaing the Shaksgam Valley's and it's loactione's .

 

[ARVION]

Why the valley was ceaded ?

The Shaksgam Valley was ceded to China by Pakistan in 1963 when both countries signed a boundary agreement to settle their border differences. However, Article 6 clearly stated that “the two Parties have agreed that after the settlement of the Kashmir dispute between Pakistan and India, the sovereign authority concerned will reopen negotiations with the Government of the People's Republic of China, on the boundary as described in Article Two of the present Agreement, so as to sign a formal Boundary Treaty to replace the present agreement.” The agreement laid the foundation of Karakoram highway which was built jointly by the Chinese and Pakistani engineers in 1970s.

 

[ARVION]

The Altitude Warfare's .

The High altitude war fare always is a challenge for any forces sheer ability to Climaticzied is an challenge for the terrain and the climatic conditione's of the Shaksgam valley and the continued deployment's .

Indian High Altitude Warfare School has one of the most experienced Discpline when it's lies to conductor's any operatione's and Warfare in such altitude and conditioner's . The experience gained after the Operatione's Meghdoot 's gives us an extreme potential to operate in such conditioner's and wage an effective's operatione's .

 

[ARVION]

Operation's for thr Shaksgam Valley and it's battle order's .

The most suitable unit's for the operatione's in the Shaksgam valley would be the Divisione's and the Regiment's and brigade's .

• Mountain Corps
  • 2nd Mountain Infantry Division
  • 56th Mountain Infantry Division
  • 57th Mountain Infantry Division
• IV Mountain Corps
  • 5th Mountain Infantry Division
  • 21st Mountain Infantry Division
  • 71st Mountain Infantry Division
• XXXIII Mountain Corps
  • 17th Mountain Infantry Division
  • 20th Mountain Infantry Division
  • 27th Mountain Infantry Division
• 6th Mountain Infantry Division
• 8th Mountain Infantry Division
• 28th Mountain Infantry Division
• 77th Mountain Infantry Brigade “Chindits”
• 99th Mountain Brigade
• 9th Parachute Special Forces Battalion
• High Altitude Warfare School .

 

[ARVION]

The silence before the strom .

An any operation's is not a success without an full secrecy and miantainnthe operatione's secrete's .

The operation badr failed and operation Meghdoot's success totally lies to the maintaining the operation secret's .





The above link's video's will help to understand the importance of the Secrecy and planning which will be explained's in the next's poste's .

 

[ARVION]

The long walk .

Any success of any operatione's lies between the supply of Ratione's , ammunition and required equipment's needed for the operation .

The Shaksgam Valley's is the not the ideal location to carry out any military offensive operation's at one end is the impossible Siachen's Glaciers and on another the Pak's occupied Gilgit's and on the other hand is the Chines plateau and pain's the only location remain's for the effective's Logistic and supply would be the Karakoram Passe's .

.

But that will need to pass and potentially occupy an area's which is not claimed by India's . And stutaining it would be another challenge for any potential disrupt of the Logistic and Supply Route's .

View attachment 53649

 

[ARVION]

Source of photographe's VastsRohit's .

A detailed map explaining the current Situatione's in and around the Shaksgam Valley's .

 

[ARVION]

The Rehearsal before the Show's .

While the Mountede's Crope's have s high range of trainings but for the operation in the Shaksgam Valley's would require sn intense training and War exercises to able to perform and effectively educate any operation in the Terrain altitude and climatic conditions , environment to a total success .






The above Video's Link's show the difficulty of training in the High Altitude's Warfare's .

 

[mist_consecutive]

@ARVION this thread can be made really interesting and educational, recommend making these changes -

• Change the thread's title (Also the typo in strategy). Something like "Ladakh Standoff: Indo-China Skirmish Scenarios"
  
  
• Make your posts more organized. Dumping a lot of random material from other forums and articles just make it hard to follow.
  
  
• Start a discussion on some topics and continue with it. This will make users interested and they will post their opinions.

 

[ARVION]

@ARVION this thread can be made really interesting and educational, recommend making these changes -

• Change the thread's title (Also the typo in strategy). Something like "Ladakh Standoff: Indo-China Skirmish Scenarios"
  
  
• Make your posts more organized. Dumping a lot of random material from other forums and articles just make it hard to follow.
  
  
• Start a discussion on some topics and continue with it. This will make users interested and they will post their opinions.

Already on with the Shaksgam valley and will make change to the thread names again thank's .

 

[ARVION]

But how to chang the name of the thread ?

 

[ARVION]

The Night of the Fox's .

Any operation of this large scale would be accompanied by an pre emptive strikes or paratroopar drope's . The first would be the use of the Para's to be dropped at the strategic locations already mentioned on the maps above . Capturing the key posts and counting to occupy till the relief party comes to the post held by the paratroopar through the road's .

The comman of chain for the paratroopar would be like this .

• 1st Battalion (Special Forces)
• 2nd Battalion (Special Forces)
• 3rd Battalion (Special Forces)
• 4th Battalion (Special Forces)
• 5th Battalion
• 6th Battalion
• 7th Battalion
• 9th Battalion (Special Forces)
• 10th Battalion (Special Forces)
• 11th Battalion (Special Forces)
• 12th Battalion (Special Forces)
• 21st Battalion (Special Forces)
• 23rd Battalion
• 29th Battalion
• 31st Battalion (Rashtriya Rifles)
• 106th Infantry Battalion (Territorial Army) (based at Bengaluru, Karnataka)
• 116th Infantry Battalion (Territorial Army) (based at Devlali, Maharashtra) .

All of the above meintoned's Para regiment's have high altitude training . Even one third of the Para Regiment's be enough to carry out and complete the given missions .

Capturing this important point's meintoned on the maps by the Paratroopar regiment's is almost necessary and the whole operation will depend on this .

 

[ARVION]

In this terrain the armoured units will have little to no effect atleast in the initial operations but will be of the need for an RT's Support's to supress the enemy's position's and post's and use if RCL Gun's and Other rocket launchers could also be seen used in the Shaksgam Valley .

 

[cereal killer]

Can India successfully intrude by a similar operation like Meghdoot? Yes we can. But can we hold it? That's the real question.
However, how will India hold onto the Shaksgam valley ? It would mean we need to cross the Karakoram divide which in best of times is a pain.

It is worthwhile to note that although it was handed over by Pakistan to China as part of the bilateral agreement, if India cannot get Gilgit-Baltistan, Shaksgam valley makes no sense. Any region one cannot hold onto or dominate is not viable. Also, what would be the strategic importance of such an act ?

In current scenario, India shares a boundary with Shagsham valley by occupying the Siachen glacier and its tributaries. The feasible entry points would have to the Passess or openings in the Karakoram divide.

This include passess upon Indira ridge. crossing these very tough pass would take us onto the Urdok+Staghar glaciers which meets the Shagsham valley looking at the maps above
W Indira col
Main Indira col
Workmann
Turkmenistan La

In addition on east side closer to Karakoram pass, we have the massive Teram Shehar plateau which opens up to Shakgsham pass. Terram Shehar is an absolute nightmare from logistics perspective. How do you maintain the logistics here? saddled between Siachen and Rimo glaciers.
I presume the Indira ridge that holds Indira Col (W & M) &Turkmenistanla has a steep slope on its north face, we have a clear view of Shaksham valley from there.
Another factor we need to mention here is Indian troops have to counter heavy presence of Pak Military on western side of Saltoro Range.
Further some observers mention that Shaksgam is easily accessible to Chinese side & is suitably connected & it is entirely administered by the People's Republic of China as a part of Kargilik County.
In my view either we first have to occupy entire GB to have better logistics or to dismantle Chinese from Karakoram pass to completely hold on the place.

 

[Bhadra]

In few hours I would post the potential startegy for the Shaksgam Valley's, I hope you will like as an amateur my startegy would not be perfect but hope some light could be shared to the the importance of the sahaksgam valley's .

It is difficult to understand strategy without outlining the national Interests ... no one in India has ever defined India's national Interests to the Armed Forces.

Strategy is employed to attain the goals defined as national interests. Strategy is application of comprehensive national power in a particular manner to atain effeciency, ease and economy of efforts to attain those gaols.

So start from what is Indian national interests.. mind you they could be different for Congress and different for BJP . different for Hindus and different for Muslims . different for different groups.... in that debate come out with non = compromise national goals.

I am specially posing this challenge as I know you will not be able to copy much on that..

Let us first start with what is called as Grand Strategy // then we will jump to Military Strategy..

 

[ARVION]

Can India successfully intrude by a similar operation like Meghdoot? Yes we can. But can we hold it? That's the real question.
However, how will India hold onto the Shaksgam valley ? It would mean we need to cross the Karakoram divide which in best of times is a pain.

It is worthwhile to note that although it was handed over by Pakistan to China as part of the bilateral agreement, if India cannot get Gilgit-Baltistan, Shaksgam valley makes no sense. Any region one cannot hold onto or dominate is not viable. Also, what would be the strategic importance of such an act ?

In current scenario, India shares a boundary with Shagsham valley by occupying the Siachen glacier and its tributaries. The feasible entry points would have to the Passess or openings in the Karakoram divide.

This include passess upon Indira ridge. crossing these very tough pass would take us onto the Urdok+Staghar glaciers which meets the Shagsham valley looking at the maps above
W Indira col
Main Indira col
Workmann
Turkmenistan La

In addition on east side closer to Karakoram pass, we have the massive Teram Shehar plateau which opens up to Shakgsham pass. Terram Shehar is an absolute nightmare from logistics perspective. How do you maintain the logistics here? saddled between Siachen and Rimo glaciers.
I presume the Indira ridge that holds Indira Col (W & M) &Turkmenistanla has a steep slope on its north face, we have a clear view of Shaksham valley from there.
Another factor we need to mention here is Indian troops have to counter heavy presence of Pak Military on western side of Saltoro Range.
Further some observers mention that Shaksgam is easily accessible to Chinese side & is suitably connected & it is entirely administered by the People's Republic of China as a part of Kargilik County.
In my view either we first have to occupy entire GB to have better logistics or to dismantle Chinese from Karakoram pass to completely hold on the place.

Well in my views even if we got into 50 to 100 km into Gilgit we cold hold the pakis at the bay but will require an shock and surprise operatione's on the Pak's .

 

[ARVION]

It is difficult to understand strategy without outlining the national Interests ... no one in India has ever defined India's national Interests to the Armed Forces.

Strategy is employed to attain the goals defined as national interests. Strategy is application of comprehensive national power in a particular manner to atain effeciency, ease and economy of efforts to attain those gaols.

So start from what is Indian national interests.. mind you they could be different for Congress and different for BJP . different for Hindus and different for Muslims . different for different groups.... in that debate come out with non = compromise national goals.

I am specially posing this challenge as I know you will not be able to copy much on that..

As now the Chinese could use the karakoram pass to enter into ladakh would always be an heal for India, as due to this india couldn't even think of going further into chinese occupied ladakh . It will require first to secure the pass and the valley along with a few parts of gilgit to even go in the chinses occupied land's .