Small arms and Light Weapons

[imd47]

This is not something really new and not avaiable for other AR's. I know it might sounds not fair, but the only, really new features are shown only in case of Polish MSBS-5,56 family of modular small arms for infantry. Where the standard AR can be quickly converted to the bullpup AR in case of need, and both standard and bullpup use common parts. So there are many options for armed forces, and they can choose both standard and bullpup design to fulfill their needs, while reducing costs thanks to the common components and in fact using on AR just in two configurations. Also there was anounced that MSBS-7,62 will also be designed.

Apart of the msbs ............. another ar have a unique characteric: the ads ..... the use of the subacuiatic and standard ammunition

 

[Bhadra]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

The Indian Army's .303 story
(with some comments on INSAS too)



The most interesting of all the mercenary soldiers of India in the 1700s were the Naga sadhus. They were ferocious, utterly reckless and totally naked.

Their leader in the war of the Awadh Shias against the Mughals was Rajendragiri Gosain. During the siege of Delhi in 1753 the monk had the back of his head blown away by an idiot who fired from his own side. A historian said, "I ascribe it to the bad marksmanship and reckless firing for which Indian troops were notorious." In the hands of Indians, guns were dangerous.
Exactly 100 years after Gosain's death, the British introduced the rifle that would cause India to mutiny against them: the Enfield Pattern 1853 with its waxed cartridge. In the hands of Indians, even ammunition was now dangerous. Naturally, the Pattern 53 did not last long, and soon went through an evolution, the Snider-Enfield of 1860.

Jacob Snider was the inventor of the gun's mechanism and the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield was the manufacturer. Rudyard Kipling sent this gun into legend in his poemThe Grave of the Hundred Head:



A Snider squibbed in the jungle,

Somebody laughed and fled,

And the men of the First Shikaris

Picked up their Subaltern dead,

With a big blue mark in his forehead

And the back blown out of

his head.

The poem is about how Subadar Prag Tewarri avenges a fallen English officer in Burma. By now, the Indian jawan had improved his aim and had been drilled and disciplined into one of the world's great infantrymen.

The next version of the Enfield rifle was a weapon fit for his qualities, the Lee-Enfield .303 SMLE. With this gun and British drilling and training, the Indian infantryman was no longer dangerous but deadly.

The .303 was manufactured in Enfield, north London. Discovery Channel's experts named it the third best rifle of all time (behind the AK-47 and the American M16). But actually it is No. 1. It has probably killed more men than any weapon in history.

With his .303, the British infantryman pacified the Boers and defeated the Germans to win two world wars. It is the rifle that the Anzac troops fired as they were slaughtered by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk at Gallipoli. The rifle with which Lawrence of Arabia captured Aqaba. It is the rifle that cut down the Sikhs at Jallianwala Bagh in 1919 and the Dalits at Ghatkopar's Ramabai Ambedkar Nagar in 1997.

acob Snider was the inventor of the gun's mechanism and the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield was the manufacturer. Rudyard Kipling sent this gun into legend in his poem The Grave of the Hundred Head:It is the rifle of Mumbai police and of the Afghan resistance. I find the .303 a beautiful gun to look at. With its wooden sturdiness, it has a dignity that many modern guns, like the plastic M16, do not.



The Indian Army's standard issue Insas is possibly the ugliest gun in existence. Gurkhas interviewed after they went over the top at Kargil said they picked up the Kalashnikovs of the fallen Pakistanis because they were better and more accurate than their own guns.

The greater beauty of the .303, however, came from its being reliable and brutally effective.

In The Rifle Story, John Walter writes that an experiment in 1900 showed that the .303's range was effectively 1.8km. This is why, for a century, Afghans have held on to this gun of their fathers.

The gun they've sniped Britishers with, Russians with, and now Americans with.

The quick-firing AK-47 is useful when overrunning trenches (which is why it's an "assault" rifle). But it is not accurate at distance. When Afghans got the Kalashnikov in the 1980s, many warriors kept their old rifles. The New York Times carried a feature on arms captured in Afghanistan including one WW-II .303 that was patched up but still working.

The .303 had some great innovations. The first came from its mechanism, invented by James Paris Lee. It could reload quickly and trained infantrymen could let off 20 rounds in 1 minute with great accuracy.

The rifle's full name is the SMLE. The LE obviously stands for Lee-Enfield. S is for short but the .303 is short only by 19th century rifle standards. Modern police forces around the world carry assault rifles (like the AK series) or still smaller submachine guns (such as the Uzi).

These are compact and easier to fire in restricted urban spaces and indoors. The .303 is a rifle from the era of trench warfare, and infantry arrayed in battle lines. It is not an urban weapon.

The M stands for magazine, and this was the second great innovation.

The .303 carries 10 rounds and was the most capacious rifle of its time. Germans facing British and Indian troops armed with the new .303 often reported that they had faced machine-gun fire. This training and disciplining under British officers, I repeat myself, is what produced the modern Indian army.

The massacre of Mumbai happened with the Pakistanis firing their AKs from the hip and the Mumbai constables firing back with their .303s.

Jacob Snider was the inventor of the gun's mechanism and the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield was the manufacturer. Rudyard Kipling sent this gun into legend in his poemThe Grave of the Hundred Head:Why didn't they hit anything?



If I remember the videos from Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus correctly, one constable fired with the rifle's stock loosely under his armpit instead of on the shoulder. This guaranteed that the .303's kick would send the bullet over the Pakistani's head. The generations of training in firing the .303 Indians have received has totally worn off.

We've also stopped making the gun. It used to be made at the Rifle Factory Ishapore in West Bengal. But it doesn't make them any more and doesn't need to.

Rifles become inaccurate and unusable with time when their rifling (the spiral groove in the barrel from which the weapons get their name) is worn out from shooting.

There's no chance of that happening in India, which has no budget to spare for target practice.

And so the .303 will be around for another century


The Indian Army's .303 story | idrw.org

 

[Damian]

MSBS-5,56 is maturing. More photos in link below, for text translator needed.

http://biznes.gazetaprawna.pl/artyk...ego_wojska_zastapi_beryla_i_kalasznikowa.html

 

[Damian]

Small update.

Altair - Nowy karabinek ujawniony

Not only MSBS-5,56 in it's configuration ready for final tests was shown, but also new underbarrel granade launcher, knife-bayonette and mockup of new pistol. It is interesting development. More probably will be revealed on this year MSPO exhibition.

http://dziennikzbrojny.pl/aktualnosci/news,1,2100,aktualnosci-z-polski,prezentacja-prototypow-msbs

 

[Shaitan]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Not about AR but Developed from AR:


Quite Interesting..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Bushra Aziz]

If only one feature is to be selected it is the Reliability. I would prefer Chinese SMG or MP5 from POF.

 

[Bhadra]

If only one feature is to be selected it is the Reliability. I would prefer Chinese SMG or MP5 from POF.

Kitan Deti Hai ??

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If only one feature is to be selected it is the Reliability. I would prefer Chinese SMG or MP5 from POF.

What kind of Chi-SMG ? and what type of MP-5 ?

MP-5 is a close bolt or open bolt ?


Edit: This is AR thread..

 

[shafiq alam]

kunal any updates on the status of multi calibre rifle selection

I also read a post in BR about the carbine competition to replace the SAF Carbine 1A (http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4016&hilit=colt&start=1800 ... ition.html) but no followup news on the status??

 

[Kunal Biswas]

kunal any updates on the status of multi calibre rifle selection

I only know berrata is leading in Rifles, Thnx to OFB official..

I also read a post in BR about the carbine competition to replace the SAF Carbine 1A (Bharat Rakshak • View topic - Small Arms Thread ... ition.html) but no followup news on the status??

No Idea, Afaik Carbine are pulled back from IA and replaced with New Insas 1B1..

Though RR is getting new Carbines.

 

[ALBY]

I only know berrata is leading in Rifles, Thnx to OFB official..



No Idea, Afaik Carbine are pulled back from IA and replaced with New Insas 1B1..

Though RR is getting new Carbines.

Which carbines?and what good will they deliver to CT forces like RR which couldn't be done by Aks?
Carbines are only good in room clearance in cqb

 

[Kunal Biswas]

India Fast-Tracks Acquisitions, Inks Three Defence Deals for the Army

Posted on: April 30, 2012

The dismal level of capabilities of the Indian Army which were highlighted by the Indian Army Chief has led the government to sign three Defence deals for the Special Forces and Infantry soldiers. The three new deals pertain to sub-machine guns, thermal imagers and target designators which are aimed at stepping up the surveillance and firepower capabilities of the force.

The first deal, worth $ 5.75 million, was signed with M/S B&T Switzerland for the acquisition of 1,568 advanced sub-machine guns for the "Ghatak" platoon of infantry battalions. The second deal has been contracted with state-run Bharat Electronics for the supply of 630 hand-held thermal imagers. These are worth $ 29.41 million and will go to the specialized counter-insurgency force in Jammu & Kashmir called Rashtriya Rifles. The third deal is inked with M/S Alpha Designs for the Special Forces in the army. The deal worth $ 23.43 million pertains to laser target designators.

While these three new contracts are significant for the army, experts feel that they are puny in front of the mega Defence deals for the other two forces in the country. The Army Chief had recently written an open letter to the Prime Minister raising doubts over the Defence procurement procedures which have led to the dismal state of Indian Army's Defence preparedness.

The Indian Army Chief has stated that despite India being the top Defence importer in the world, the Indian Army's tank fleet was devoid of critical ammunition to counter enemy tanks, its air Defence was 97 per cent obsolete, the infantry lacked night fighting capabilities and large-scale deficiency in critical surveillance capabilities and weapons plagued the force.

Following the acerbic remarks of the Army Chief, Defence Minister AK Antony has sprung into action by holding Defence review meetings, fast-tracking procurement projects and inking the above-mentioned deals for the army. The Defence Ministry has indicated that procurements worth $ 3.33 billion are in the final phase and that a committee has also been appointed under the Army Vice-Chief to fast-track arms deals for the Special Forces. Some of the mega deals being fast-tracked include new regiments of BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers, 10,000 Konkurs-M anti-tank guided missiles and 25,000 Invar missiles to arm the T-90S tanks, according to sources.

Meanwhile, India is also focused on military modernization with a clear emphasis on transfer of major technology as well as the license to assemble and produce equipment and spare parts. Last year, India released its first Defense Production Policy that facilitates a domestic defense-industrial base. India is also planning to bring down import dependence from 70% to 30% over the next 10 years. Earlier this year, Defense Minister A.K. Antony indicated that indigenization was gaining speed and that almost 40% of India's armament and equipment is now being made in the country.

India Fast-Tracks Acquisitions, Inks Three Defence Deals for the Army - Defence Now

India Fast-Tracks Acquisitions, Inks Three Defence Deals for the Army

Posted on: April 30, 2012

The first deal, worth $ 5.75 million, was signed with M/S B&T Switzerland for the acquisition of 1,568 advanced sub-machine guns for the "Ghatak" platoon of infantry battalions. The second deal has been contracted with state-run Bharat Electronics for the supply of 630 hand-held thermal imagers. These are worth $ 29.41 million and will go to the specialized counter-insurgency force in Jammu & Kashmir called Rashtriya Rifles. The third deal is inked with M/S Alpha Designs for the Special Forces in the army. The deal worth $ 23.43 million pertains to laser target designators.

India Fast-Tracks Acquisitions, Inks Three Defence Deals for the Army - Defence Now

B&T Advanced Police Carbine / APC submachine gun is a simple blowback operated weapon, firing from closed bolt. It is available in two versions, selective-fired and semi-auto only. In either version, it has a hammer-fired ignition system. Safety / fire selector switches are of ambidextrous design, and conveniently located at the top of the pistol grip. Selective-fired APC submachine guns have three position levers (Safe – Semi – Auto) while semi-automatic carbines have two-position levers (Safe – Fire). One interesting aspect of the semi-auto APC is that it uses AR15-style trigger unit, which will accept many after-market replacement parts. All other controls, such as bolt hold-open release button and magazine catch button, also are duplicated on either side of the gun for ambidextrous use, and charging handle can be installed on either side of the bolt, according to user preferences. Construction of the B&T APC submachine gun involves modern materials, such as aerospace-grade alloy for upper receiver and polymers for lower receiver / pistol grip, magazines and shoulder stock. B&T APC submachine gun is designed to handle most, if not all types of factory ammunition in its respective caliber, feeding from double stack, double feed magazines of various capacities, originally developed for B&T MP9 or MP45 submachine guns. All B&T APC submachine guns come with 3-lug barrels which would accept quick-detachable sound suppressors ('silencers'), also developed by B&T.

Modern Firearms - B&T Advanced Police Carbine / APC submachine gun (Switzerland)

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...an-counter-terror-operations-pictures-42.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Which carbines?and what good will they deliver to CT forces like RR which couldn't be done by Aks?
Carbines are only good in room clearance in cqb

Updated AKM are way better..

 

[ALBY]

True kunal for Indian rugged conditions kalashnikovs are way better than any other weapon available if they are meant to be used in CT ops.how a 9mm smg is gonna shoot down a tango firing from over 50mts in Kashmir?even if they need something shorter but with stopping power there are lot better options like the carbine versions of kalashnikovs firing 5.56 ,7.62mm made by Bulgaria,Russia and Hungary.Also as they are pumping this much mmoney they could have gone for micro tavors or galil ace or micro beryls or short barelled hk416s.
SmGs are suited only for swat like units and needs extra care .And how many SmGs are deployed in falujjah and kandahar by the coilation forces. For some one like me it didn't make any sense except the assumption that Swiss firm had bribed MOD .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

For some one like me it didn't make any sense except the assumption that Swiss firm had bribed MOD

There is lots of things we like Swiss..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

True kunal for Indian rugged conditions kalashnikovs are way better than any other weapon available if they are meant to be used in CT ops.

For RR :

Take a OFB AK-47 / Bulgarian licensed or clone..

Update it..

1. Prail
2. Modern Butt
3. Good Grip
4. Insas muzzle flasher..

 

[Bhadra]

But has fixed butt......
The butt must be adjustable and folding... it is not a world war assault rifle that is required today but a short and sleek adjustable gun for all purposes...

The magazine is long and bulky which changes CG of the gun as the ammunition is expended and being long hinders in taking aim in lying position as magazine touched the ground...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Let it be us or the rest of the world, Magazine size is 30rnds..

 

[ALBY]

For RR :

Take a OFB AK-47 / Bulgarian licensed or clone..

Update it..

1. Prail
2. Modern Butt
3. Good Grip
4. Insas muzzle flasher..

Are the muzzle brakes of Insas compatible with an Ak ?I heard that krinkov muzzle brakes (the ones in ak74m) are the best in world compared with the ones in M4s. Ps:as far as govt is not gonna buy optics there is need for rails. Are the weapons used by IA except tavors could mount flashlights without any rail?