Small arms and Light Weapons

[Johny_Baba]

Spoiler: Doubt baba

So finally will they retire type 89 and 64 or torture them more

Type 64 is already retired from active service, it's mostly in reserves now and used in training for familiarisation etc
Type 89 will be gradually phased out as new Type 20s come in to take their place, and mostly will share same fate as Type 64

 

[ALBY]

Does all the rifles gets heated up when left in hot conditions @Johny_Baba asking coz the black furnitured Insas's polymer furniture is just like a hot read blast furnace when under scorching sun. I remember some guys post that earlier Insas was preferred in orange furniture just to reduce the hot temperature in Rajasthan and Rann of Kutch areas.I had handled Bulgarian Aks and plastic SLRs. But never ever got the same hot feeling as Black polymer Insas. May be i never carried those in mid day as i had carried Insas.

 

[SGOperative]

...and of course,
more sugoi kawaaii Type 20 anime raifu waifus
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Thnx for a new DP

 

[Johny_Baba]

Does all the rifles gets heated up when left in hot conditions @Johny_Baba asking coz the black furnitured Insas's polymer furniture is just like a hot read blast furnace when under scorching sun. I remember some guys post that earlier Insas was preferred in orange furniture just to reduce the hot temperature in Rajasthan and Rann of Kutch areas.I had handled Bulgarian Aks and plastic SLRs. But never ever got the same hot feeling as Black polymer Insas. May be i never carried those in mid day as i had carried Insas.

It's simple thing sir,
even Middle Eastern armies like current Iraqi one, Iranian one etc all used black rifles, and we don't see them complaining much about weapon heating up things,

Iraqi Army's standard issue rifle is Croatian VHS-2, is in black,
Iranian Army uses G-3 local version, again black mostly,

Heck even Israelis use various AR-15s and Tavors, again black only,

INSAS is heating up because they seem to have used materials that conduct heat, and colouring them black//making them in black only adds up in head absorption...also surface things also plays in heat convention-conduction etc

so yeah

 

[ALBY]

It's simple thing sir,
even Middle Eastern armies like current Iraqi one, Iranian one etc all used black rifles, and we don't see them complaining much about weapon heating up things,

Iraqi Army's standard issue rifle is Croatian VHS-2, is in black,
Iranian Army uses G-3 local version, again black mostly,

Heck even Israelis use various AR-15s and Tavors, again black only,

INSAS is heating up because they seem to have used materials that conduct heat, and colouring them black//making them in black only adds up in head absorption...also surface things also plays in heat convention-conduction etc

so yeah

Seems like that.. Cheap plastic.. Same with the folding stock which has plastic coating over the stock

 

[Johny_Baba]

Seems like that.. Cheap plastic.. Same with the folding stock which has plastic coating over the stock

Sir any information-comments on other desi weapons heating up in harsh deserts during summer etc ?

like, Excalibur (both Mk1//Mk1A and Mk1C), Amogh, JVPC, Ghatak, MCIWS//AAR (must be rare to find info but if it was tested out they must've done it in Thar etc, i guess ?) and those newly made ones like ARDE Carbine, R-2 in 7.62 NATO and so...

Ghatak is just AK-ised INSAS in 7.62x39mm calibre and MPi-KM-ish configuration with some added features so i guess that one's going to be mostly same ?
Excaliburs are INSAS sans grenade launching flash hider (it's gotten shorter one) and full auto feature and some minor differences, mainly new long handguard on Mk1 and further ones got back to INSAS style ones in case of Mk1A//Mk1C etc, so it's also same ?
Amogh...INSAS derivative in 5.56x30mm...
JVPC well it's new but still...
and MCIWS//AAR would be interesting to know about them...

 

[ALBY]

Sir any information-comments on other desi weapons heating up in harsh deserts during summer etc ?

like, Excalibur (both Mk1//Mk1A and Mk1C), Amogh, JVPC, Ghatak, MCIWS//AAR (must be rare to find info but if it was tested out they must've done it in Thar etc, i guess ?) and those newly made ones like ARDE Carbine, R-2 in 7.62 NATO and so...

Ghatak is just AK-ised INSAS in 7.62x39mm calibre and MPi-KM-ish configuration with some added features so i guess that one's going to be mostly same ?
Excaliburs are INSAS sans grenade launching flash hider (it's gotten shorter one) and full auto feature and some minor differences, mainly new long handguard on Mk1 and further ones got back to INSAS style ones in case of Mk1A//Mk1C etc, so it's also same ?
Amogh...INSAS derivative in 5.56x30mm...
JVPC well it's new but still...
and MCIWS//AAR would be interesting to know about them...

I don't work in the military so dont know about the most of tge weapons.. Anyway when chatting with a coast guard official he said they really liked JVPC and disliked Amogh as JVPC is quality stuff.
Concerning both Tar and Ghatak both ate not upto the mark of any if the imported Aks in any sense. Also the ones who fired and operated said the same.
The Insas i mentioned was made in 2017, pretty recent one. The furniture hadnt changed a bit. Yes these ones got new anti corrosive paint on the body cover or receiver (i presume thats anti corrosive paint) which was not their in older insas or SLRs.
Fire selector of Insas is too akward to operate especially the TRB. Many times the fire selextor wont fall jnto the right position.

 

[Johny_Baba]

I don't work in the military so dont know about the most of tge weapons.. Anyway when chatting with a coast guard official he said they really liked JVPC and disliked Amogh as JVPC is quality stuff.
Concerning both Tar and Ghatak both ate not upto the mark of any if the imported Aks in any sense. Also the ones who fired and operated said the same.
The Insas i mentioned was made in 2017, pretty recent one. The furniture hadnt changed a bit. Yes these ones got new anti corrosive paint on the body cover or receiver (i presume thats anti corrosive paint) which was not their in older insas or SLRs.
Fire selector of Insas is too akward to operate especially the TRB. Many times the fire selextor wont fall jnto the right position.

- Amogh vs JVPC comments from coast guards,
expected, JVPC is clearly superior build,
if they have *time, willingness etc* they should also roll out upgraded Amogh with welded rails receiver build or simply make ARDE carbine in 5.56x30mm version that takes Amogh magazines as well as a separate lower receiver that accepts push-button magazine release pattern JVPC magazines, just in case
- INSAS anti-corrosive paint on body cover and/or receiver hhmm that's strange that they have to paint their rifles with these things but ok
- Both TAR and Ghatak not upto mark with imported AKs,
hhmm at least TAR looks near perfect copy of Bulgarian AKs we brought here but if it's having QA issues then...yeah, maybe some ghapla in metals or something QA issues during manufacturing etc...seems fixable with some proper standards etc, but if it was upto me i'd pick up TAR over Ghaatak anyday
- Fire selector on INSAS,
kinda expected, have also seen this on some video somewhere on youtube where firing couldn't be done when fire selector wasn't properly seated on that 3-round burst position,
and there is reason for that too,
thing is, fire selector has a little extension that pushes that ratcheting mechanism forward in its place when it's put on 3-round burst mode, and if it's not put on place properly it won't align cogs of ratcheting mechanism with little spring loaded pawl on hammer at same time won't free the trigger as well for firing it
(explanation would sound better with some pics etc but maybe later someday), so yeah,
in general INSAS also has a spring loaded detent for fire selector that would positively keep it in its place in any firing mode but...yeah...build quality QA etc things again...

 

[Flying Dagger]

- Amogh vs JVPC comments from coast guards,
expected, JVPC is clearly superior build,
if they have *time, willingness etc* they should also roll out upgraded Amogh with welded rails receiver build or simply make ARDE carbine in 5.56x30mm version that takes Amogh magazines as well as a separate lower receiver that accepts push-button magazine release pattern JVPC magazines, just in case
- INSAS anti-corrosive paint on body cover and/or receiver hhmm that's strange that they have to paint their rifles with these things but ok
- Both TAR and Ghatak not upto mark with imported AKs,
hhmm at least TAR looks near perfect copy of Bulgarian AKs we brought here but if it's having QA issues then...yeah, maybe some ghapla in metals or something QA issues during manufacturing etc...seems fixable with some proper standards etc, but if it was upto me i'd pick up TAR over Ghaatak anyday
- Fire selector on INSAS,
kinda expected, have also seen this on some video somewhere on youtube where firing couldn't be done when fire selector wasn't properly seated on that 3-round burst position,
and there is reason for that too,
thing is, fire selector has a little extension that pushes that ratcheting mechanism forward in its place when it's put on 3-round burst mode, and if it's not put on place properly it won't align cogs of ratcheting mechanism with little spring loaded pawl on hammer at same time won't free the trigger as well for firing it
(explanation would sound better with some pics etc but maybe later someday), so yeah,
in general INSAS also has a spring loaded detent for fire selector that would positively keep it in its place in any firing mode but...yeah...build quality QA etc things again...

CRPF have moved on to TAR completely now in their last orders and are ditching Ghaatak and Arsenal both it seems .

May be the feedback will help to improve TAR in batches.

 

[ALBY]

The problem is not exclusive for TRB but for semi auto too.. Mostly happens to ageing guns.. Also the position of fire selector could have been changed a few cm backwards. As i find it hard to manipulate the controls without slightly lifting the right palm from the pistol grip.
Also i personally felt its more easy to cock the charging handle of Ak as it is in right side also in insas you have to bring it from a comparatively long distance than Ak.
Accuracy wise its too good. But like anyother weapon you need to zero it according to you and i had personality saw a few weapons which couldn't be zeroed any further. I think its due to bad armourer rather than the issue of weapon.
Concerning the new finish if receivers of both Insas and Ghatak its more rough than previous ones and colour is almost like that of that of Vzs.

 

[ALBY]

CRPF have moved on to TAR completely now in their last orders and are ditching Ghaatak and Arsenal both it seems .

May be the feedback will help to improve TAR in batches.

I dont think forces have much option in choosing their weapon of choice unless they are of any special unit like NSG, Greyhounds or any elite police unit. For normal units whats MHA says that will only go.
The elite police units which all got Tar had returned them in favor of more Bulgarian ones.
One of the commando in Grey hound very recently told me that some of the Tars with folding butts were issued to them for evaluation purpose, they returned them because when firing in full auto the folding stocks loses the locking and gets swinging. I had heard the same complaint from much older underfolding romanian Aks but newer weapons showing this is not Okay.

 

[ALBY]

Don't know how the quality of SLRs, Mag58s and Bren LMGs are good where as rest of all the weapons are shitty..

 

[Flying Dagger]

I dont think forces have much option in choosing their weapon of choice unless they are of any special unit like NSG, Greyhounds or any elite police unit. For normal units whats MHA says that will only go.
The elite police units which all got Tar had returned them in favor of more Bulgarian ones.
One of the commando in Grey hound very recently told me that some of the Tars with folding butts were issued to them for evaluation purpose, they returned them because when firing in full auto the folding stocks loses the locking and gets swinging. I had heard the same complaint from much older underfolding romanian Aks but newer weapons showing this is not Okay.

In that case the feedback should have gone to the manufacturer too. They need to wrinkle out these issues.

Even NSG have ordered the Trichy Carbine now. Only 100 ordered though May be for evaluation.

Don't know how the quality of SLRs, Mag58s and Bren LMGs are good where as rest of all the weapons are shitty..

Do we really know they were of OEM standard? Add to that we did nothing to improve SLR later.

 

[MisraZ]

Gun Jesus's April Fools video:

 

[Whitecollar]

JVPC bagged further orders

 

[Lonewarrior]

JVPC bagged further orders

So per unit cost is...

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

So per unit cost is...

Order might be including sights, extra mags, maybe some ammo etc. Will have to check the documents for it.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[SGOperative]

Do we make .338 Magnum in India?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Do we make .338 Magnum in India?

No.