Small arms and Light Weapons

[MisraZ]

That would be a win-win situation for that bloody uncle of ours.

If we make 7.62x39mm AKs then it means we can't sell those to other countries as doing that would make us compete with Klashnikov Concern.

But no small country is going to adapt a 6.5 Grendel round; only civilians will buy. And Klashnikov Concern is already banned in US and Canada.

That's the sole reason why Russians are so desperate to sell us AKs.
- There civillian sales has fallen drastically.
- Poor African countries can get cheaper alternatives from Norinco.
- With just a few more bucks, countries can get an ambidextrous AR instead of an AK.

Only Serbians tried to make 6.5 grendel as a standard issue w/ zastava m19. I wish we could do that but again bringing in a new caliber now when we already own a zoo.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Only Serbians tried to make 6.5 grendel as a standard issue w/ zastava m19. I wish we could do that but again bringing in a new caliber now when we already own a zoo.

To be honest, it's a perfect time to adapt a new round.

If we wait even a couple of years then we would have to make 10L new barrels and then modify each and every gun.

But at this stage we would only need some 20-30 rifling mandrels for our cold hammer forging machines and that's it.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Interesting

 

[Whitecollar]

Only problem with using Grendel inplace of regular 7.62x39 is mag tapering:

As you can see, 7.62x39 allows a better taper angle that results in better stacking into a curved mag. A Grendel however should have a much lesser curved mag. Where it could be deteimental? Shooting while prone. AKs were designed to be effective in shooting even after using it in prone condition.

Another thing is, after switching to 5.45x39, the tapered casing concept was still followed in Ruski Army allowing them to go with same mag concept, just slightly less tapered but being smaller in dia, the difference wasn't enough to disturb old prone shooting stance.

7.62x39 vs 5.45x39(notice case tapering is continued)

Grendel Mag

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

To be honest, it's a perfect time to adapt a new round.

If we wait even a couple of years then we would have to make 10L new barrels and then modify each and every gun.

But at this stage we would only need some 20-30 rifling mandrels for our cold hammer forging machines and that's it.

You do know that 6.5 is not finallised by any millitary yet, and going by older tenderrs by US, this NGSW may not go to production?

Most troops we will face wont be covered with body armour, and bullets make up a very small part of kills during conflict.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I do think cartridges will change in future, but given the way we are short on budget, I would go with safer cartridges.

 

[IndianHawk]

Agree on everything except above point. AK is Far, Far cheaper than sig. The cost per rifle that people quote also includes setting up factory, machines etc- Which can be used later to make other rifles(hopefully in better caliber). In per rifle cost after setting up production AK is cheaper

Yup also the joint factory between OFB and Russia is supposed to bring some modern manufacturing and quality control practices to OFB. Or atleast I hope so.

The factory will keep churning rifles for a long time to come.

 

[Lonewarrior]

You do know that 6.5 is not finallised by any millitary yet, and going by older tenderrs by US, this NGSW may not go to production?

Most troops we will face wont be covered with body armour, and bullets make up a very small part of kills during conflict.

Still same answer Sir

 

[Lonewarrior]

Only problem with using Grendel inplace of regular 7.62x39 is mag tapering:

View attachment 128574
View attachment 128575

As you can see, 7.62x39 allows a better taper angle that results in better stacking into a curved mag. A Grendel however should have a much lesser curved mag. Where it could be deteimental? Shooting while prone. AKs were designed to be effective in shooting even after using it in prone condition.
View attachment 128577

Another thing is, after switching to 5.45x39, the tapered casing concept was still followed in Ruski Army allowing them to go with same mag concept, just slightly less tapered but being smaller in dia, the difference wasn't enough to disturb old prone shooting stance.
View attachment 128578
7.62x39 vs 5.45x39(notice case tapering is continued)

View attachment 128579
Grendel Mag

Indeed, but luckily negligible

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Still same answer Sir

Ok, sure. Your opinion.

IMO it might be a waste of money and then people will cry around and blame everyone and everything.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Yup also the joint factory between OFB and Russia is supposed to bring some modern manufacturing and quality control practices to OFB. Or atleast I hope so.

The factory will keep churning rifles for a long time to come.

"Bringing" part will definitely happen, there is no denial in that.
But whether they'll be "continued" or not is totally up to the babus of OFB.

 

[SGOperative]

"Bringing" part will definitely happen, there is no denial in that.
But whether they'll be "continued" or not is totally up to the babus of OFB.

I want to be a jihadi and i will wage jihad against the OFB mfs. Because of their faulty ammunition and parachutes we loose trainees.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I want to be a jihadi and i will wage jihad against the OFB mfs. Because of their faulty ammunition and parachutes we loose trainees.

insha'Allah Bhai Jaan

 

[SGOperative]

insha'Allah Bhai Jaan

Alhamdulillah amen

 

[Love Charger]

Alhamdulillah amen

Maksad yaad rakhna , bhai

 

[vampyrbladez]

I think the Army did a good job this time with their modernisation program as far as infantry weapons are concerned.

Frontline LOC - Sig 716i (Steel Core 7.62x51 mm)

72,400 ordered and delivered. 72,000 more to be delivered.

Battle rifle for punching through LVL IIIA / LVL IV body armor at ranges ~ 500 or more.

Modular design of AR 10 based Sig 716i means that we can upgrade these to 6.8 mm in the future fairly easily.


IMI Negev 7 (7.62x51 mm)

SAW/ LMG to replace Bren LMG. Lightweight and has a high rate of fire.

16,000+ ordered and deliveries started. 40,000 to be ordered.

Shares 7.62x51 mm ammunition with the Sig 716i.


AK 203M (7.62x39 mm)

70,000 ordered. 6,00,000+ on order.

Essentially a modernised AK 103, it will help in standardization of troops with a single service rifle instead of a hodgepodge of AKs upgraded with Fab Defence kits.


There are also some .338 Lapua based sniper rifles which are to be used in a purely marksman based capability.

I see most infantry units at the border / LAC / LOC will use a mix of Sig 716i, AK 203 and IMI Negev.

The Indian Army is not serious on the 5.56 mm and is using that to see what the Indian Defence Industry can come up with.

 

[SGOperative]

I think the Army did a good job this time with their modernisation program as far as infantry weapons are concerned.

Frontline LOC - Sig 716i (Steel Core 7.62x51 mm)

72,400 ordered and delivered. 72,000 more to be delivered.

Battle rifle for punching through LVL IIIA / LVL IV body armor at ranges ~ 500 or more.

Modular design of AR 10 based Sig 716i means that we can upgrade these to 6.8 mm in the future fairly easily.


IMI Negev 7 (7.62x51 mm)

SAW/ LMG to replace Bren LMG. Lightweight and has a high rate of fire.

16,000+ ordered and deliveries started. 40,000 to be ordered.

Shares 7.62x51 mm ammunition with the Sig 716i.


AK 203M (7.62x39 mm)

70,000 ordered. 6,00,000+ on order.

Essentially a modernised AK 103, it will help in standardization of troops with a single service rifle instead of a hodgepodge of AKs upgraded with Fab Defence kits.


There are also some .338 Lapua based sniper rifles which are to be used in a purely marksman based capability.

I see most infantry units at the border / LAC / LOC will use a mix of Sig 716i, AK 203 and IMI Negev.

The Indian Army is not serious on the 5.56 mm and is using that to see what the Indian Defence Industry can come up with.

The Lapua ones will be give to Snipers i think since they are setting up a course and Army had a plan to replace/mod the Dragunov

 

[MisraZ]

 

[Dharmic_Crusader]

That is one sexy-looking gun... Jihadis must feel really lucky to get shot by that beauty.