Small arms and Light Weapons

[Vayuputra]

Unknown, but best case scenario if we really have to purchase this gun is the original version.

We are getting with folding butt stock not adjustable one, we qill pirchse some 70k guns directky from izmaish and redtbwill be manufactured at ameti.

 

[Lonewarrior]

But which version of AK-203?

Ummm...
The one without ambidextrous controls, non-reciprocating charging handle, aluminium receiver, drop free magazine, bolt hold ope.....

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

FYI

AK 203 Indian Variant

AK 203 Original variant

 

[laughingbuddha]

FYI

AK 203 Indian Variant

AK 203 Original variant

Why not the adjustable stock? Minor cost cutting after spending so much? Makes no sense. Why can't the generals provide good stuff for the soldiers?

 

[Tshering22]

Bhagwan ke kripa se yeh deal radh hojaye aur sig 716 and caracal rifles order kare, word armed forces are opting for ar styled rifles over traditional ones, if it wasnt for the emotions attached to ak 47, Russians would have ditched ak patern rifle long back,

Forces seem to have a different opinion, especially those operating in open mountainous terrains. They love the AK series. Especially the 103+ onward variants. They are powerful, reliable and have a better recoil compensation making them more accurate.

AKs are not there just for emotions - they get the job done. AR-style rifles are still relatively new to our forces, which is why they are being purchased by state police SWAT team and CT units in smaller numbers. Given that we have a zoo of small arms, this should help standardize the rifle selection in the medium and long-term.

 

[Honey]

Forces seem to have a different opinion, especially those operating in open mountainous terrains. They love the AK series. Especially the 103+ onward variants. They are powerful, reliable and have a better recoil compensation making them more accurate.

AKs are not there just for emotions - they get the job done. AR-style rifles are still relatively new to our forces, which is why they are being purchased by state police SWAT team and CT units in smaller numbers. Given that we have a zoo of small arms, this should help standardize the rifle selection in the medium and long-term.

So do you know why the second batch sig 716 rifle was ordered?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Haa aur america yaha banaye ga na sig 716 ?
Kabhi nai , better arm all of them with a shortened version of fal , ask ofb or whatever its called now to make a new version of Fal

Shortened version of FAL was already manufactured by OFB in 1980s. It was called SLR -1C and had a 16 inch barell with full auto capability.

It is still used by army in the bunkers along LAC.

Many improvements can be done on this design, if army is interested. For example, AR style buttstock, full picatiny rail, floating handguard, modified BCG, cold hammer forged thicker barell, Insas R2 style heavy muzzle break etc. Some of these concepts are already implemented on FAL by DS Arms, FAB defence etc. This will improve its accuracy similar to HK-417 (also a short stoke design) in single shot mode to around 1 MOA, and also improve its controllability in full auto mode.

 

[MisraZ]

Greek rifle AOR (AOP) | Presented before the Hellenic Army General Staff

The national rifle, designed by AOR Design Group, was presented before the Hellenic Army General Staff...

defenceredefined.com.cy

1 of the rifles Greek army is evaluating as HK G3 replacement.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Greek rifle AOR (AOP) | Presented before the Hellenic Army General Staff

The national rifle, designed by AOR Design Group, was presented before the Hellenic Army General Staff...

defenceredefined.com.cy

1 of the rifles Greek army is evaluating as HK G3 replacement.

Post the pics can't oepn the link

 

[MisraZ]

Post the pics can't oepn the link

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Why not the adjustable stock? Minor cost cutting after spending so much? Makes no sense. Why can't the generals provide good stuff for the soldiers?

Penny wise, Pound foolish

 

[MisraZ]

My personal opinion on SLR upgrade:

No point flogging a dead horse. Most of our SLRs would be old and moreover SLR has a short stroke , tilting breach lock action which results in accuracy of 3-4moa. From the reviews I have read from various forums is you can get 1.25-1.5 moa from it and it would be a extensive(and expensive) upgrade. It would be better to buy additional Sig716 along with accessories instead.

That being said if upgrade of SLR is actually feasible and provides our soldiers greater firepower at minimal cost then we should go for it. What do you think guys?

 

[Tshering22]

So do you know why the second batch sig 716 rifle was ordered?

One thing I can always tell you is that if you go and ask a kid what he wants in a candy store, he is going to change his mind every two minutes. Streamlining equipment types, their logistics, etc. is the job of mid-senior and senior military officers along with MOD personnel.

Those operating as mere facility guards in the forces would be fine with an INSAS while Ghatak platoons or RRs operating in terror hotspots of Kashmir or Nagaland or LAC would tell you that AKs are absolute beasts. When streamlining something, the higher precedent is usually taken into consideration.

MoD ordered SIGs because:

1) The political overdrive to jump into the American arms.
2) To have a better bargaining hand when dealing with the Russians
3) To scuttle the emerging domestic rifle sector which is not very 'rewarding' for babus and mid-senior generals

Mark my words, it is definitely not to question the AK's reliability.

 

[Marliii]

One thing I can always tell you is that if you go and ask a kid what he wants in a candy store, he is going to change his mind every two minutes. Streamlining equipment types, their logistics, etc. is the job of mid-senior and senior military officers along with MOD personnel.

Those operating as mere facility guards in the forces would be fine with an INSAS while Ghatak platoons or RRs operating in terror hotspots of Kashmir or Nagaland or LAC would tell you that AKs are absolute beasts. When streamlining something, the higher precedent is usually taken into consideration.

MoD ordered SIGs because:

1) The political overdrive to jump into the American arms.
2) To have a better bargaining hand when dealing with the Russians
3) To scuttle the emerging domestic rifle sector which is not very 'rewarding' for babus and mid-senior generals

Mark my words, it is definitely not to question the AK's reliability.

Sigs won the tender and beat competitors like tabour7,car817 to get into the army.it wasn't I think selected because its american.if by that logic sig should have won the carbine tender too.why would IA give that tender to caracal?the only political deal here is the ak203 which was just for getting Ivan on seat.how much testing did ak203 got?some delegates from here of the army got to kalanishkov and shot the guns.while sig and caracal won the deal by rigorous testing .army is just thinking ak203 is an ak so it will work fine but the same ak of OFB is tested to the limit and rejected.so russian ak are fine but indian ak are not?

 

[Lonewarrior]

One thing I can always tell you is that if you go and ask a kid what he wants in a candy store, he is going to change his mind every two minutes. Streamlining equipment types, their logistics, etc. is the job of mid-senior and senior military officers along with MOD personnel.

Those operating as mere facility guards in the forces would be fine with an INSAS while Ghatak platoons or RRs operating in terror hotspots of Kashmir or Nagaland or LAC would tell you that AKs are absolute beasts. When streamlining something, the higher precedent is usually taken into consideration.

MoD ordered SIGs because:

1) The political overdrive to jump into the American arms.
2) To have a better bargaining hand when dealing with the Russians
3) To scuttle the emerging domestic rifle sector which is not very 'rewarding' for babus and mid-senior generals

Mark my words, it is definitely not to question the AK's reliability.

It would be great if you just clear this one doubt of mine

How the f is that so called ultra reliability of your sikrit teknulugy best ruski rifel is going to help when one has to engage a target beyond 500 meters?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[MisraZ]

One thing I can always tell you is that if you go and ask a kid what he wants in a candy store, he is going to change his mind every two minutes. Streamlining equipment types, their logistics, etc. is the job of mid-senior and senior military officers along with MOD personnel.

Those operating as mere facility guards in the forces would be fine with an INSAS while Ghatak platoons or RRs operating in terror hotspots of Kashmir or Nagaland or LAC would tell you that AKs are absolute beasts. When streamlining something, the higher precedent is usually taken into consideration.

MoD ordered SIGs because:

1) The political overdrive to jump into the American arms.
2) To have a better bargaining hand when dealing with the Russians
3) To scuttle the emerging domestic rifle sector which is not very 'rewarding' for babus and mid-senior generals

Mark my words, it is definitely not to question the AK's reliability.

1) 7.62x39mm has its limitations. It's not suitable for combat beyond 300m and bullet drop is considerable. Pakis use G3, which is a good battle rifle. That would put you in a disadvantage. Definitely not a political overdrive in fact it's the other way around as @Marliii said(ak203 is a political deal).

2) You need a bargaining chip when the other party treats you as a cash cow. You want us to pay royalty for a widely copied design from 50s. If you are doing that then that's foolish

3) True. Domestic sector under monopoly of OFB produced weapons with horrible QC standards so the end user will exploit that by saying none of Domestic weapons will meet QC standards of army. This coming from people who designed the gsqr for carbine with 2 triggers is funny actually.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

1) 7.62x39mm has its limitations. It's not suitable for combat beyond 300m and bullet drop is considerable. Pakis use G3, which is a good battle rifle. That would put you in a disadvantage. Definitely not a political overdrive in fact it's the other way around as @Marliii said(ak203 is a political deal).

2) You need a bargaining chip when the other party treats you as a cash cow. You want us to pay royalty for a widely copied design from 50s. If you are doing that then that's foolish

3) True. Domestic sector under monopoly of OFB produced weapons with horrible QC standards so the end user will exploit that by saying none of Domestic weapons will meet QC standards of army. This coming from people who designed the gsqr for carbine with 2 triggers is funny actually.

Carbine with 2 triggers?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

It would cost way more than a purpose built AK with the same features