Small arms and Light Weapons

[Harbinger]

My only problem with ak203 deal is that indigenous ak clones are made here but they still need a downgraded version with royalty to ivan

There's a slight difference in our clones and the ones which are being procured. Our clones which is as of now is TAR, and it is milled, whilst the ones from Kalashnikov are stamped.
As for performance, that’s up for debate. Some believe the flexibility of stamped rifles gives their rifle better resilience to contortion and hard use. While advocates of milled rifles believe the increased rigidity aids in accuracy and durability.
Nevertheless, the Russian military uses the lighter stamped AKs and they have proven every bit as durable as their milled counterparts. The truth of the matter is, there are far too many factors aiding or impeding accuracy on any AK rifle to attribute it to the type of receiver.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

At any case only assam rifles and rashtriya rifles need AKs. That is around 46 + 65 = 111 battalions.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

My only problem with ak203 deal is that indigenous ak clones are made here but they still need a downgraded version with royalty to ivan

I think it is more of a political signalling towards Russia. But we have already paid our hafta to Russians in s-400 deal and recently 464 T-90s deal.
Not to mention that around 300 million dollars of unused advance money paid by us for fgfa program to Russians.

 

[Tactical Doge]

jawans are more than familiar with the ak platform.

But sir
Isn't this too irrelevant an argument in the 21st century
And the end of the day they have to evolve themselves and start adopting new weapons and familiarise themselves with the systems
It is also a part of modernization drive

And with argument of 203 I'm completely with @FalconSlayers here
I don't see anything beyond political debauchery for the deal

 

[Harbinger]

But sir
Isn't this too irrelevant an argument in the 21st century
And the end of the day they have to evolve themselves and start adopting new weapons and familiarise themselves with the systems
It is also a part of modernization drive

And with argument of 203 I'm completely with @FalconSlayers here
I don't see anything beyond political debauchery for the deal

I agree, but, Apart from that i didn't present it as an argument but i said it "might" have been one of the several reasons. Might being the keyword, i was merely pointing out an opinion

 

[Harbinger]

On a side note, (an opinion) they could've went for the 5.56x45mm variants of Bulgarian rifles, their full-sized 7.62x39mm variants are already in service with CAPFs and several state police forces and from a personal interaction i can say Bulgarian rifles do feel solid. Apart from that they're cheap.

 

[Harbinger]

I agree, but, Apart from that i didn't present it as an argument but i said it "might" have been one of the several reasons. Might being the keyword, i was merely pointing out an opinion

Moreover the whole 203 deal does seem like a servile attempt to please Russia.

 

[FalconSlayers]

I think it is more of a political signalling towards Russia. But we have already paid our hafta to Russians in s-400 deal and recently 464 T-90s deal.
Not to mention that around 300 million dollars of unused advance money paid by us for fgfa program to Russians.

Russians used our free 300 million dollars and we backed out, so we did free favour to Russians and yet their Su-57 Felon isn’t ready. And now Russia is treating India as a 3rd grade partner. They all are some sort of backstabbers. They call India as their best friend and then does such low things even when we never said we are going against Russia or dumping Russia. Infact only India is the one who never misused the IPR of Russian weapons which China does. Russian government is totally mad.

And so is Indian Army who could have easily selected AK-15 instead of AK-203, same caliber, same rifle but better modifications.

 

[Harbinger]

They've seen some action in middle east because one of the axis on which proliferation of Bulgarian small arms in the region turns on came in late 2003, following the US invasion of Iraq, Arsenal signed a major US-approved contract to supply the post-Saddam Iraqi Army with Kalashnikov-patterned rifles, pistols, rockets, and other weapons. This contract irked Russian arms exporters who preached that the Kalashnikovs should come from the original factory. Bulgarian Kalashnikovs were promised to Iraq at between $75-100 apiece. Modern Russian versions were priced significantly higher, at around $500 each.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Moreover the whole 203 deal does seem like a servile attempt to please Russia.

Seem? It is! Else who would want a clusterfuck of ammunition? Buy out FAB mods and modify existing AKs, end of Story! AK-203 or rather AK-103M is like our existing East German AK-47s painted in black! There’s no point going for more AKs. If Army feels that some AK variants can’t fit the FAB mods then buy out some Bulgarian ones and modify it or straightaway purchase a few thousand AK-203. Giving 7.62x39 to infantry is a joke.

6.5 Creedmoor and 6.8 SPC is something on which IA should have focussed more, but they didn’t.

 

[Aspirant847]

Russians used our free 300 million dollars and we backed out, so we did free favour to Russians and yet their Su-57 Felon isn’t ready. And now Russia is treating India as a 3rd grade partner. They all are some sort of backstabbers. They call India as their best friend and then does such low things even when we never said we are going against Russia or dumping Russia. Infact only India is the one who never misused the IPR of Russian weapons which China does. Russian government is totally mad.

And so is Indian Army who could have easily selected AK-15 instead of AK-203, same caliber, same rifle but better modifications.

So the problem with 203 is not enough modification capabilities?

 

[Harbinger]

Russians used our free 300 million dollars and we backed out, so we did free favour to Russians and yet their Su-57 Felon isn’t ready. And now Russia is treating India as a 3rd grade partner. They all are some sort of backstabbers. They call India as their best friend and then does such low things even when we never said we are going against Russia or dumping Russia. Infact only India is the one who never misused the IPR of Russian weapons which China does. Russian government is totally mad.

And so is Indian Army who could have easily selected AK-15 instead of AK-203, same caliber, same rifle but better modifications.

Tried to unleash my creativity. Fill in the blanks ig

 

[FalconSlayers]

So the problem with 203 is not enough modification capabilities?

The one we are getting is not AK-203, it is AK-103M.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Tried to unleash my creativity. Fill in the blanks ig View attachment 81003

Uncle Sam

 

[Aspirant847]

The one we are getting is not AK-203, it is AK-103M.

but I read we're getting ak 203's?

 

[Harbinger]

Uncle Sam

Ameerka.

 

[Harbinger]

Seem? It is! Else who would want a clusterfuck of ammunition? Buy out FAB mods and modify existing AKs, end of Story! AK-203 or rather AK-103M is like our existing East German AK-47s painted in black! There’s no point going for more AKs. If Army feels that some AK variants can’t fit the FAB mods then buy out some Bulgarian ones and modify it or straightaway purchase a few thousand AK-203. Giving 7.62x39 to infantry is a joke.

6.5 Creedmoor and 6.8 SPC is something on which IA should have focussed more, but they didn’t.

100% agreed

 

[Vishalreddy3]

But sir
Isn't this too irrelevant an argument in the 21st century
And the end of the day they have to evolve themselves and start adopting new weapons and familiarise themselves with the systems
It is also a part of modernization drive

And with argument of 203 I'm completely with @FalconSlayers here
I don't see anything beyond political debauchery for the deal

Finally someone said it!!! In that case the chinese were never familiar with Bullpups and they were born and bred with AK-47 and Type-56, but overnight they switched to Type-97!!

 

[Harbinger]

@FalconSlayers ab munasib hai janab?

 

[FalconSlayers]

but I read we're getting ak 203's?

On paper it is AK-203, Like the one you see on internet...

But ham aapko Haqeeqat se roobaru karate hai... This is the one Indian Army is receiving...!!!