Small arms and Light Weapons

[Whitecollar]

You forgot the recently showcased Ishapore carbine, which seems to be based on Insas MK1C which cleared trials.

Exactly and it's specs also match that of IA's recent RFI. As for it's ergo, I would've preferred a Vityaz style Safety selector switch and a better AK 203 style Pistol grip cause it would be easy muscle memory for our soldiers.
Anyways I think this is being done to re order Caracal 816 as previous order got washed away because of Aatma Nirbhar drive.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Looks slightly better than before. IMO they need a better stock and handguard are does not look nice with that shiny finish. Also a full length rail if possible.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

We have to do something, to outflank these fucking germans, I know it's hard but let's try!! As of now I think France and Switzerland, Bulgaria are the only European countries who produce decent firearms who can export to India.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Looks slightly better than before. IMO they need a better stock and handguard are does not look nice with that shiny finish. Also a full length rail if possible.

These schmucks in OfB will never think outside of the box I guess!! Look at the buttstock, handguard, gas chamber and gas block!! Same old mentality but they improvise different ways to go on a strike.

 

[Spindrift]

We have to do something, to outflank these fucking germans, I know it's hard but let's try!! As of now I think France and Switzerland, Bulgaria are the only European countries who produce decent firearms who can export to India.

What the government needs to do is make acquiring firearms license for civilians easier and increase the number to weapons that a licensee can hold per license and allow foreign firearms makers into the Indian civilian firearms market and prohibit those who don't do business with the armed forces. The Indian civilian firearms market is huge, one guy on IFG some years back made an estimate based on the number of rejected and pending firearms license applications and it's close to about a billion USD.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

What the government needs to do is make acquiring firearms license for civilians easier and increase the number to weapons that a licensee can hold per license and allow foreign firearms makers into the Indian civilian firearms market and prohibit those who don't do business with the armed forces. The Indian civilian firearms market is huge, one guy on IFG some years back made an estimate based on the number of rejected and pending firearms license applications and it's close to about a billion USD.

Not all civilians bro or else jihadis will come into play!! Only Hindus and Buddhists in J&K and North East should be allowed to keep these weapons!!!!

 

[Spindrift]

Not all civilians bro or else jihadis will come into play!! Only Hindus and Buddhists in J&K and North East should be allowed to keep these weapons!!!!

The jihadis and the naxals already have access to weapons...

 

[Flying Dagger]

Exactly and it's specs also match that of IA's recent RFI. As for it's ergo, I would've preferred a Vityaz style Safety selector switch and a better AK 203 style Pistol grip cause it would be easy muscle memory for our soldiers.
Anyways I think this is being done to re order Caracal 816 as previous order got washed away because of Aatma Nirbhar drive.

All these Carbines are half hearted efforts.

Army needs to rationalise their ammunition and 5.56 NATO is the choice for carbine.

TAR carbine is for CRPF etc not army. We will be opting for AR based carbine whether caracal or Sig provide that.

Answer to german hegemony is ASMI and hopefully a HK416 / 7 clone from OFB. OFB must do that if they wish to survive.

Indra and SSS defence also have their offerings hopefully their products turn out good.

 

[perun88]

We have to do something, to outflank these fucking germans, I know it's hard but let's try!! As of now I think France and Switzerland, Bulgaria are the only European countries who produce decent firearms who can export to India.

Germans offer nothing that can not be procured from elsewhere. We can procure from US too before the S-400 sanctions hit. Russia is always there. If nothing else, maybe one of those JVs with IAI will pay off, and provide a modicum of entertainment at least. Small arms is lo-tech, it is those firms that suffer from losing our business, not us.

 

[Whitecollar]

All these Carbines are half hearted efforts.

Army needs to rationalise their ammunition and 5.56 NATO is the choice for carbine.

TAR carbine is for CRPF etc not army. We will be opting for AR based carbine whether caracal or Sig provide that.

Answer to german hegemony is ASMI and hopefully a HK416 / 7 clone from OFB. OFB must do that if they wish to survive.

Indra and SSS defence also have their offerings hopefully their products turn out good.

Umm...which carbine offering from SSS Defence has AR design chambering 5.56 NATO? Astr Defence has SCAR type carbine offering but I doubt it will ever see any action in Army firing range, let alone get inducted.
For 5.56 NATO, you also have CQB carbine by OFB. I know it's half hearted attempt but what do you want with carbines anyways? You won't be wielding it as Primary in a war zone expecting to hit targets beyond 400 mtrs. For the purpose they're made, all Indian carbines will do pretty fine job.
Similar reason why Excalibur MK1 got rejected by Army despite performing extremely well in trials. On design front, I agree that all carbines look dated and little out of proportion. But looks has nothing to do with performance and if it performs well and accessories can be mounted, it can be bought.
I believe this process is being done after Caracal company expressed deep concerns to IA regarding their carbines not being chosen despite getting selected.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Umm...which carbine offering from SSS Defence has AR design chambering 5.56 NATO? Astr Defence has SCAR type carbine offering but I doubt it will ever see any action in Army firing range, let alone get inducted.
For 5.56 NATO, you also have CQB carbine by OFB. I know it's half hearted attempt but what do you want with carbines anyways? You won't be wielding it as Primary in a war zone expecting to hit targets beyond 400 mtrs. For the purpose they're made, all Indian carbines will do pretty fine job.
Similar reason why Excalibur MK1 got rejected by Army despite performing extremely well in trials. On design front, I agree that all carbines look dated and little out of proportion. But looks has nothing to do with performance and if it performs well and accessories can be mounted, it can be bought.
I believe this process is being done after Caracal company expressed deep concerns to IA regarding their carbines not being chosen despite getting selected.

This is reason i keep saying this, follow the iranian model!! iranians use their modern or western import products in their main military( army,navy,airforce) whereas they use local indigenous products in their IRGC to test and improve it.

 

[Marliii]

Umm...which carbine offering from SSS Defence has AR design chambering 5.56 NATO? Astr Defence has SCAR type carbine offering but I doubt it will ever see any action in Army firing range, let alone get inducted.
For 5.56 NATO, you also have CQB carbine by OFB. I know it's half hearted attempt but what do you want with carbines anyways? You won't be wielding it as Primary in a war zone expecting to hit targets beyond 400 mtrs. For the purpose they're made, all Indian carbines will do pretty fine job.
Similar reason why Excalibur MK1 got rejected by Army despite performing extremely well in trials. On design front, I agree that all carbines look dated and little out of proportion. But looks has nothing to do with performance and if it performs well and accessories can be mounted, it can be bought.
I believe this process is being done after Caracal company expressed deep concerns to IA regarding their carbines not being chosen despite getting selected.

Dude army is not going for PDW and most combat happens under 300 meters and IA does not use sights so even sig716 users will have hard time hitting targets above 300meters.these carbines are going mostly for shock troops ,airborne etc and may even see some in special forces also FB designs are just crap and IA knows it.SSS def will not do anything and will pop next time in 2022 def expo.making guns is not hard OFB makes it look like it.if this deal goes through at least army will have a modular ar15 type with indian army.

 

[Whitecollar]

Dude army is not going for PDW and most combat happens under 300 meters and IA does not use sights so even sig716 users will have hard time hitting targets above 300meters.these carbines are going mostly for shock troops ,airborne etc and may even see some in special forces also FB designs are just crap and IA knows it.SSS def will not do anything and will pop next time in 2022 def expo.making guns is not hard OFB makes it look like it.if this deal goes through at least army will have a modular ar15 type with indian army.

I do agree that OFB does a world class job in making quality assault rifles(INSAS) but same OFB is making TAR which is being loved by our Paramilitaries and Cobra commandos. Same OFB's gonna produce AK-203 mind you. My point here is out of all 3 forces, IA is the only spoiled one that will never agree on Aatma nirbhar concept and always go for Phoren Maal.
On carbine front, the demand is lesser compared to assault rifle. Plus the JVPC is rather a product of DRDO than OFB so now, no agrument can justify that IA rejects only OFB's handcrafted maal. You can also argue about ballistics of a 5.56X30 but let me assure you, the AP property of this is quite remarkable for 200 mtr distance.

And why does IA wants a carbine in 5.56X45, when IA's core doctorine was to ditch the low powered underperforming 5.56X45 for a "more powered" 7.62X39mm?? Wouldn't they go for Krinkov or Baby TAR or something to standardize the loadout and ammo altogether??

 

[Marliii]

I do agree that OFB does a world class job in making quality assault rifles(INSAS) but same OFB is making TAR which is being loved by our Paramilitaries and Cobra commandos. Same OFB's gonna produce AK-203 mind you. My point here is out of all 3 forces, IA is the only spoiled one that will never agree on Aatma nirbhar concept and always go for Phoren Maal.
On carbine front, the demand is lesser compared to assault rifle. Plus the JVPC is rather a product of DRDO than OFB so now, no agrument can justify that IA rejects only OFB's handcrafted maal. You can also argue about ballistics of a 5.56X30 but let me assure you, the AP property of this is quite remarkable for 200 mtr distance.

And why does IA wants a carbine in 5.56X45, when IA's core doctorine was to ditch the low powered underperforming 5.56X45 for a "more powered" 7.62X39mm?? Wouldn't they go for Krinkov or Baby TAR or something to standardize the loadout and ammo altogether??

Dude INSAS even when it was ugly it was a good design.IA gun trails are very hard and in the last competition for carbines beretta arx 160a2 was rejected because its eye safety fell down a simple thing like that so insas had to good gun to pass IA trails. were insas got wrong was OFB manufacturing them.and making ak47 is not a big thing as even porki tribals make them though it is crap.Baby tar is just an abomination and CRPF can use it but army needs a good compact gun like us m4 but shorter barrel length of 10 inch just like daniel def mk18.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

We already use M4s in Special forces. How hard is it for OFB or any private company to reverse engineer it?

 

[Marliii]

We already use M4s in Special forces. How hard is it for OFB or any private company to reverse engineer it?

Private companies can do it easily but OFB makes everything look like 1950 style with black paint and says its modern,best

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

OFB is an organization which is more comfortable with license production, than designing anything new. The production timelines are never met, and the quality of production is quite absymal. The workers have formed unions which are backed by communists which have been the route cause of their absymal productivity.

 

[Whitecollar]

Dude INSAS even when it was ugly it was a good design.IA gun trails are very hard and in the last competition for carbines beretta arx 160a2 was rejected because its eye safety fell down a simple thing like that so insas had to good gun to pass IA trails. were insas got wrong was OFB manufacturing them.and making ak47 is not a big thing as even porki tribals make them though it is crap.Baby tar is just an abomination and CRPF can use it but army needs a good compact gun like us m4 but shorter barrel length of 10 inch just like daniel def mk18.

Well dude, I made my point on rejection of desi maal over phoren maal. Considering your last point, ask any US war vet who did service in middle east and other warmer countries. If given a choice between AR carbine and a Krinkov, they would choose the Krinkov simply because in small range(<200 mtrs), Krinkov does 1 shot 1 kill almost everytime and is dirt cheap, highly reliable AND lethal. Only AR carbine I liked was the Gordon Carbine which was a short barrel Colt made gun that did service in Somalia(Black Hawk Down).
And yeah, Porkkchop's darra made AK and M4 clones use mostly chinese internal components like firing pins plus they don't even have a rifled barrel so what do you expect??

 

[Whitecollar]

We already use M4s in Special forces. How hard is it for OFB or any private company to reverse engineer it?

Well dude, not so much. But given our dependancy on Sig's 716s at frontlines and how strictly US takes copying of their "sold" rifles, we'll be inviting whole lot of troubles.

 

[Marliii]

Well dude, I made my point on rejection of desi maal over phoren maal. Considering your last point, ask any US war vet who did service in middle east and other warmer countries. If given a choice between AR carbine and a Krinkov, they would choose the Krinkov simply because in small range(<200 mtrs), Krinkov does 1 shot 1 kill almost everytime and is dirt cheap, highly reliable AND lethal. Only AR carbine I liked was the Gordon Carbine which was a short barrel Colt made gun that did service in Somalia(Black Hawk Down).
And yeah, Porkkchop's darra made AK and M4 clones use mostly chinese internal components like firing pins plus they don't even have a rifled barrel so what do you expect??

That's urban myth dude why would US soldiers with highly equiped m4s take krinkovs ? Ak hit like crap but US soldiers will only take it when they run out of ammo .many us veterans have also said this and I really don't want commies in OFB making guns to our army any indian private company is good.