Small arms and Light Weapons

When picking a gun, what would your primary consideration be?


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Kunal Biswas

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Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

What if i told you Beryl is nothing like INSAS and MSBS which your new toy is now close to INSAS .. :)

Yes, INSAS - comparable to polish Beryl. what can be comparable whit MSBS? .
 

Damian

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Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

What if i told you Beryl is nothing like INSAS and MSBS which your new toy is now close to INSAS .. :)
Sorry Kunal, they I will say you know nothing. I actually hold different AK variants including "Beryl" and I had opportunity to hold MSBS, INSAS compared to MSBS is a stone age weapon in terms of modularity, ergonomics, literally everything.
 

militarysta

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Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Damian, I cannot argue with someone who has no military experience with AR around ..
Would You be so kind and writ me what is better in INSAS then in Beryl rifle? :)
becouse I really don't see bigger difrences in general idea. Bothe weapons now are good but they are on circa 1980-1990 level, despite well known INSAS rifle problems whit quality of the first batches and traditional too long developing phase...

btw: both where tested in combat as I understand? Polish ones Beryl was tested in Irak, Afghanistan etc... and perform extremly good.
 
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Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

@abhi_the _gr8_maratha
so adult argument "we are superpower, we have nukes and you not - India strong!11111!"
more seriously - when you will realiza that sucht argument is in fact insult for your country and in fact phatetic here?
You must escape it to direction "superpower" thinks like nukes, IBCM, space program etc becouse on lower level - conventional warfare many program in India (Bhim, Bhay, etc) faild in compare to polish analoges, and in fact even "sucefull" program like INSAS are not better then analoges - for example Beryl, but they are ussaly deade later after polish ones...
So sucht argument about "superpower" IBCM and nukes in in fact extremly stupid :)
beryl nothing compared to insas . Insas have many variant like kalantak etc. And each have their own specific work like kalantak is light weight.
.
is there any variant of beryl ?
.
your remarks on nuclear weapons show nothing but depression of not having one
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Going ahead would be funny for me and waste of time for me .. I assure you that !

I would teach you about INSAS as i am a user myself, But before i go ahead i would like to ask you few questions >>

1. What is the length of the barrel of beryl issued to your Infantry and what is the twist rate ?
2. Does it have a gas regulator ?
3. Does it have carrying handle besides having sling ?
4. What is the weight of the Rifle fully loaded ..
5. What type of 5.56mm ( Weight and Velocity ) does this rifle use ..
6. What kind of Iron sight does it have ?

Unless you know anything about your own rifle, You cannot do a good comparison ..

==================

Below Minus zero at Himalayas, World`s most heavy rainfall forests, Around salt waters areas and Sandy desert of Thar .. :)

There are more than 3 million active INSAS 1B1 in our Army alone, I am not counting another million Paramilitary and AF and Navy ..

Would You be so kind and writ me what is better in INSAS then in Beryl rifle? :)

becouse I really don't see bigger difrences in general idea. Bothe weapons now are good but they are on circa 1980-1990 level, despite well known INSAS rifle problems whit quality of the first batches and traditional too long developing phase...

btw: both where tested in combat as I understand? Polish ones Beryl was tested in Irak, Afghanistan etc... and perform extremly good.
 

Damian

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Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Going ahead would be funny for me and waste of time for me .. I assure you that !

I would teach you about INSAS as i am a user myself, But before i go ahead i would like to ask you few questions >>

1. What is the length of the barrel of beryl issued to your Infantry and what is the twist rate ?
2. Does it have a gas regulator ?
3. Does it have carrying handle besides having sling ?
4. What is the weight of the Rifle fully loaded ..
5. What type of 5.56mm ( Weight and Velocity ) does this rifle use ..
6. What kind of Iron sight does it have ?

Unless you know anything about your own rifle, You cannot do a good comparison ..
1."Beryl" in basic variant have barrel with lenght of 457mm and a twist rate of twist rate is 1:9 inches as it is considered by our military as most universal twist rate for rifling.
2."Beryl" does not have a gas regulator as standard, although one can be installed if desired to, only rifles that fire granades have this installed as standard, these are so called kbkgn.
3.No as it is seem as unnececary, sling is enough. However you can install carrying handle if nececary on picatinny rails.
4.3,89kg with magazine fully loaded.
5.Every type, you can fire M193, M855/M855A1, I believe here in Poland we manufacture SS109.
6.Depends on variant, standard ones use typical AK iron sights, however these can be removed and replaced with different sights mounted to picatinny rail.
 

militarysta

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there is no variant of beryl on wikipedia
.
do you know how to calculate IQ?
beryl nothing compared to insas . Insas have many variant like kalantak etc. And each have their own specific work like kalantak is light weight.
.
is there any variant of beryl ?
o_O
ROTFL
e-RAPORT MSPO 2/2010 - Beryl's new modifications - Altair Agencja Lotnicza
4 yers old (in englis)

Beryl M22 z Łucznika - Altair Agencja Lotnicza
Beryl in .22LR caliber

SHOT Show: MSBS w Vegas - Altair Agencja Lotnicza

SHOT Show: FB w Vegas - Altair Agencja Lotnicza
export Beryl (Archer) family

Beryl wiecznie żywy - Altair Agencja Lotnicza
Beryl after upgrade in 2012

5000 nowych Beryli dla WP - Altair Agencja Lotnicza
Beryl fo forces in Afganistan (2009)


version:
wz. 96 Beryl
wz. 96 Mini-Beryl
wz. 2004 Beryl
Beryl Commando
 

militarysta

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Mod. 96 Beryl Assault Rifle

The 5.56 mm Mod. 96 Beryl Assault Rifle is an individual selective fire automatic weapon for infantry, airborne and other troops. It is a reliable, accurate, enduring and robustly built rifle, resistant to the environmental challenges.

Sights are open, U-notch type, fitted with integrated tritium-lit night sights, enabling accurate fire both during the day and after dark. For enhanced handling a new, ergonomic pistol grip and optional front grip (fixed to the handguard or detachable using the integrated RIS interface) were fitted.

Beryl has a rifle grenade capability with bullet-trap grenades, enabling live rounds to be used for launching. The stock is rigid, telescoping with optional side-folding stock available. The upper and lower handguard integrated Picatinny rails (MIL-STD-1913 compatible) enable mounting of the different optoelectronic sights.

TECHNICAL DATA:

Caliber: 5.56 mm x 45 NATO
Muzzle velocity (for SS109-type ball ammunition): V0 = 920 m/s
Muzzle energy (for SS109-type ball ammunition): E0 = 1690 J
Firing mode: Single, Burst (3 rds), Cyclic
Cyclic rate of fire: 700 rpm
Effective range: 600 meters
Sight settings: 100-1000 meters in 100 m increments
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Method of operation: gas-operated weapon
Number of lands in the bore: 6
Rifling pitch: 228 mm

MEASUREMENTS:

Length with stock extended: 980 mm
Length with stock retracted: 910 mm
Barrel length: 457mm
Sighting radius: 372 mm

WEIGHTS:

Weapon, empty: 3650 g
Magazine (30 rds) empty: 185 g
Magazine (30 rds) loaded: 554 g
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

What exact version that your Military use in Mass, And provide its specs not the ones you are exporting to Yanks ;)

12."Beryl" does not have a gas regulator as standard, although one can be installed if desired to, only rifles that fire granades have this installed as standard, these are so called kbkgn.
3.No as it is seem as unnececary, sling is enough. However you can install carrying handle if nececary on picatinny rails.
5.Every type, you can fire M193, M855/M855A1, I believe here in Poland we manufacture SS109.
6.Depends on variant, standard ones use typical AK iron sights, however these can be removed and replaced with different sights mounted to picatinny rail.
 

Kunal Biswas

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You both sure this is the one your army using in mass ..

Mod. 96 Beryl Assault Rifle

TECHNICAL DATA:

Caliber: 5.56 mm x 45 NATO
Muzzle velocity (for SS109-type ball ammunition): V0 = 920 m/s
Muzzle energy (for SS109-type ball ammunition): E0 = 1690 J
Firing mode: Single, Burst (3 rds), Cyclic
Cyclic rate of fire: 700 rpm
Effective range: 600 meters
Sight settings: 100-1000 meters in 100 m increments
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Method of operation: gas-operated weapon
Number of lands in the bore: 6
Rifling pitch: 228 mm

MEASUREMENTS:

Length with stock extended: 980 mm
Length with stock retracted: 910 mm
Barrel length: 457mm
Sighting radius: 372 mm

WEIGHTS:

Weapon, empty: 3650 g
Magazine (30 rds) empty: 185 g
Magazine (30 rds) loaded: 554 g
 

Damian

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This is "Archer" a civilian semi auto only version of military "Beryl".
 
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Damian

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What exact version that your Military use in Mass, And provide its specs not the ones you are exporting to Yanks
Polish military uses different versions. Some units especially lower and rear echelons use wz.96A which does not have all features, however high readiness units mostly use wz.96C.


This is a Polish soldier from a higher readiness unit with wz.96C, you can see picatinny rails, holo sight etc.


This soldier from other higher readiness unit have a bit older wz.96B with different type of rails.

Currently it is very rare to see soldiers with wz.96A.
 

militarysta

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You both sure this is the one your army using in mass ..
Yes, but remember that "in mass" in Poland means something completly diffrent then in India :)

proof:
5000 nowych Beryli dla WP - Altair Agencja Lotnicza
Jest to kolejna partia Beryli zakupiona w tym roku, pierwsza obejmowała 1912 karabinków wz. 96(patrz: Zamówienia w MON - omówienie). W ramach nowego kontraktu Fabryka Broni ma dostarczyć 4490 karabinków automatycznych wz. 96 Beryl (3530 dla Wojsk Lądowych, 91 dla Sił Powietrznych oraz 869 dla Dowództwa Garnizonu Warszawa), 607 subkarabinków wz. 96 Mini Beryl (520 dla Wojsk Lądowych, 87 dla Żandarmerii Wojskowej), 15 karabinków wz. 96 Beryl-szkolny oraz 24 karabinków wz. 96 Beryl-przekrój. Tym samym całkowita liczba zamówionych w 2009 przez Wojsko Polskie karabinków automatycznych wz. 96 przekroczy 7 tysięcy, co jest największym jednorazowym zakupem tej broni od chwili jej wprowadzenia do uzbrojenia w 1997. Dla przypomnienia, w 2008 armia odebrała 3216 Beryli (plus 35 karabinków Beryl-szkolny i 40 Beryl-przekrój) oraz 552 Mini Beryli (patrz: Zakupy Beryli i UKM-2000P). Łączna liczba karabinków Beryli i Mini Beryl w Wojsku Polskim szacowana jest na około 35 tysięcy.
Number of Beryl and Mini Beryl in Polish Army is counted as 35 000.
Small?
Remember that whole Polish Army is :
Land Forces: 46 000 troops (tottal: 60 000)
Air Forces: 16 500 troops (tottal: 25 400)
Navy: 8000 troops (tottal: 10 100)
Special Forces: 2500 troops (tottal ?)

All: 73 000 soilders from tottal number circa 95 000 -100 000 in miliyary service.

So in fact 35 000 Beryl in Army means: 1/2 "soilders" (operators?) whit new Rifle, or 1/3 wholer Army whit new rifle.

now new MSBS will be boyght for circa 35-40 000 soilders and "old" Beryl will standaryzied for wholer "rest" in military service
 
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militarysta

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@Kunal

Please consider the fact that eacht polish infanty soilder (operator) have it's own 2000$ given from army to "improved" it's equipment or other -so many soilders have bought additional parts to Beryl.
In fact it's imposible to see infanty soilder whit Beryl looking like from factory. Eacht single soilder who was in iraq or afghanistan (so most of the polish infanty soilders (operator) have modernisated Beryl or invidual equipment.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Here where INSAS improved 1B1 specs ..

1. The barrel is 464mm and with a twist ration of 1:7.8 inches for medium and long range, Compare to shorter and more rifled Beryl ..
2. It has gas regulator as standard for operation under different circumstances, Beryl does not has it ..
3. Quite necessary in Military, In long runs carrying handle is essential, Beryl does not has it ..
4. 3.8kgs with fully loaded magazine, Beryl stands at 4.2 kgs ..
5. IA use OFB 64gr 5.56mm with a velocity of 2900fps, Out class SS109 that Beryl use ..
6. Built in Iron Sight with duel rear flip up sight for short and long ranges can engage targets beyond 400ms much accurately compares to AK design sights ..

=================

Further INSAS has partial influence of AK unlike Beryl is almost an AK influenced rifle ..

The difference is by a measurable margin about how they are operate mechanically and over field and different enviorment ..


1."Beryl" in basic variant have barrel with lenght of 457mm and a twist rate of twist rate is 1:9 inches as it is considered by our military as most universal twist rate for rifling.
2."Beryl" does not have a gas regulator as standard,
3.No as it is seem as unnececary, sling is enough. However you can install carrying handle if nececary on picatinny rails.
4.3,89kg with magazine fully loaded.
5.Every type, you can fire M193, M855/M855A1, I believe here in Poland we manufacture SS109.
6.Depends on variant, standard ones use typical AK iron sights, however these can be removed and replaced with different sights mounted to picatinny rail.

Mod. 96 Beryl Assault Rifle


TECHNICAL DATA:

Caliber: 5.56 mm x 45 NATO
Muzzle velocity (for SS109-type ball ammunition): V0 = 920 m/s
Muzzle energy (for SS109-type ball ammunition): E0 = 1690 J
Firing mode: Single, Burst (3 rds), Cyclic
Cyclic rate of fire: 700 rpm
Effective range: 600 meters
Sight settings: 100-1000 meters in 100 m increments
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Method of operation: gas-operated weapon
Number of lands in the bore: 6
Rifling pitch: 228 mm
=============================

Cannot consider, Factory manufactured can only be counted ..

@Kunal

Please consider the fact that eacht polish infanty soilder (operator)
 
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militarysta

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Cannot consider, Factory manufactured can only be counted ..
so standard is like on this photo for 2009 batch:



in 2009 polish army bought:

first batch:
1912 wz. 96 beryl

second batch:
4490 wz. 96 Beryl
607 wz. 96 Mini Beryl

it's just example which standard it have (on photos above),
previouse (2008) batch have the same (3216 Beryli and 552 Mini Beryli) the same.

What in [previous ones -I don't know.
What after 2009 -again - I don;t know. Some beryl propably was bought after 2009 but I don't known how many

As I said -tottal number of the Beryl in Army is circa 35 000 so for 1/3 all peoples in militray, or 1/2 "frontline" soilders .

In polish conditions it's tottaly mass using.
And Beryl was tested and proof it's value in Iraq between 2003 and 2009 and in Afghanistan between 2001 and...2014.
More then decade in combat in hard condiotions, and this type of rifle was OK and soilders like it very mucht.
 
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Damian

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Here where INSAS improved 1B1 specs ..

1. The barrel is 464mm and with a twist ration of 1:7.8 inches for medium and long range, Compare to shorter and more rifled Beryl ..
2. It has gas regulator as standard for operation under different circumstances, Beryl does not has it ..
3. Quite necessary in Military, In long runs carrying handle is essential, Beryl does not has it ..
4. 3.8kgs with fully loaded magazine, Beryl stands at 4.2 kgs ..
5. IA use OFB 64gr 5.56mm with a velocity of 2900fps, Out class SS109 that Beryl use ..
6. Built in Iron Sight with duel rear flip up sight for short and long ranges can engage targets beyond 400ms much accurately compares to AK design sights ..
1.But the "Beryl" rifling is more unviersal.
2.Regulator is a nice thing but not nececary, besides this "Beryl" is a modified AKM in it's essence, and the fun fact, nobody never complied about "Beryl" reliability from beggining of it's service, INSAS had problems with reliability. SO you know, fancy features are nothing if rifle does not work properly. ;)
3.Nah, you can have carrying handle, but in the end sling is enough, you think our soldiers were never serving in combat conditions? Sometimes patrols could be very long, and noboy ever said that carrying handle is nececary.
4.Larger weight might be actually advantage, as we know slightly heavier weapons are more accurate.
5.I said that "Beryl" can use different types of 5,56x45mm ammunition, you can use SS109, M193, M855/M855A1, hey I can put OFB rounds in to "Beryl" magazine and fire it without problems.
6."Beryl" sights can be zeroed up to 1000m, but obviously such weapons are mostly designed to fire no further than 600m.
 

Twinblade

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5.I said that "Beryl" can use different types of 5,56x45mm ammunition, you can use SS109, M193, M855/M855A1, hey I can put OFB rounds in to "Beryl" magazine and fire it without problems.
No. 5.56 INSAS is a different round and is ~ 3mm longer than standard 5.56 NATO. INSAS can fire 5.56 NATO round but a NATO standard gun cannot fire 5.56 INSAS.
 

Kunal Biswas

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1. Learn this, Bullet from a shorter barrel with more rifling does not hit accurately even at 300ms, Its an issue with all AKs ..
2. Then your rifle cannot work efficiently with all the gases insides gas tubes for long ..
3. That is because you don`t ran 20kms every day with sling attached to your back .. ;)
4. Weight palenty, Sucks endurance, Low preform-ace solider ..
5. ----------------------
6. Yes it can shoot to 1000ms but not accurate, I know i used both AK, INSAS, TAR ..

1.But the "Beryl" rifling is more unviersal.
2.Regulator is a nice thing but not nececary, besides this "Beryl" is a modified AKM in it's essence, and the fun fact, nobody never complied about "Beryl" reliability from beggining of it's service, INSAS had problems with reliability. SO you know, fancy features are nothing if rifle does not work properly. ;)
3.Nah, you can have carrying handle, but in the end sling is enough, you think our soldiers were never serving in combat conditions? Sometimes patrols could be very long, and noboy ever said that carrying handle is nececary.
4.Larger weight might be actually advantage, as we know slightly heavier weapons are more accurate.
5.I said that "Beryl" can use different types of 5,56x45mm ammunition, you can use SS109, M193, M855/M855A1, hey I can put OFB rounds in to "Beryl" magazine and fire it without problems.
6."Beryl" sights can be zeroed up to 1000m, but obviously such weapons are mostly designed to fire no further than 600m.
 

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