Small arms and Light Weapons

[militarysta]

if INSAS have problem then why nepal army re-buying INSAS?

Becouse it was lowerpriced at 70%?
So it was pure dumping and selling under manufacure costs?
In fact India helped Nepal seeling INSAS as cheap as it was possible. It was good idea to help Nepla against maoist and china, but have nothing common whit advantages or disadavantages of INSAS.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

He was not talking about advantage or disadvantage, Learn to read ..

In fact India helped Nepal seeling INSAS as cheap as it was possible. It was good idea to help Nepla against maoist and china, but have nothing common whit advantages or disadavantages of INSAS.

 

[militarysta]

@UP
start lerning how to read whit understanding

I was given simple ansver: Nepal bought INSAS couse;
- lowerpriced at 70% rifles (from circa 200USD...)
- India is suppoeting Nepal agians amoist and china so sell extremly chaep INSAS rifle.

 

[ladder]

@UP
start lerning how to read whit understanding

I was given simple ansver: Nepal bought INSAS couse;
- lowerpriced at 70% rifles (from circa 200USD...)
- India is suppoeting Nepal agians amoist and china so sell extremly chaep INSAS rifle.

Currently there is no Maoist problem in Nepal. Maoists have become a political entity, participating in democratic election process. Former Maoists rebels too have been accommodated in Army, Police and other sectors.

So, unless you are accusing India of helping Nepali Govt, in curbing a legal political opposition by supplying cheap arms, and which essentially is a international crime. You should take back your statement and graduate from Wikipedia articles which can go unedited for years.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

WHAT?!
Tottal fake and nonsense:

Karabinek wz. 96 Beryl – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

Translante:
In 2002 each Beryl cost circa 600USD. In many opinnion this price was overpriced at circa 30%





Only in one think: it's circa 0,5kg lighter.

there is light weight variant of INSAS known as kalantak which is lighter than beryl
.
there is 12 year gap between 2014 and 2002 so the price can be 1300 dollars
.
is your beryl gas operated automatic? No.
.
does it has been operated from coldest place to one of hottest? Does it is operated from highest military point or in a valley ?
.
and twinblade sir already told why problems occurred in insas.
.
price of beryl is 1200 dollar in this link and many quote it 1300 dollar
.
Polish Beryl "Archer" 5.56x45 (.223) with A Non-Folding Collapsible Stock #AKAGUN-POLBER

 

[Twinblade]

there is light weight variant of INSAS known as kalantak which is lighter than beryl
.
there is 12 year gap between 2014 and 2002 so the price can be 1300 dollars
.
is your beryl gas operated automatic? No.
.
does it has been operated from coldest place to one of hottest? Does it is operated from highest military point or in a valley ?
.
and twinblade sir already told why problems occurred in insas.
.
price of beryl is 1200 dollar in this link and many quote it 1300 dollar
.
Polish Beryl "Archer" 5.56x45 (.223) with A Non-Folding Collapsible Stock #AKAGUN-POLBER

Kalantak didn't make the cut so that doesn't count. All semi/auto guns are gas operated, either long stroke (AKM, INSAS), direct impingement (M-16/M-4) or short stroke (FN-FAL, HK416).

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Kalantak didn't make the cut so that doesn't count. All semi/auto guns are gas operated, either long stroke (AKM, INSAS), direct impingement (M-16/M-4) or short stroke (FN-FAL, HK416).

one of polish guy accepted in MBT thread that beryl not gas operated hence the claim

 

[Twinblade]

one of polish guy accepted in MBT thread that beryl not gas operated hence the claim

Which would be ridiculous. Only sub-machine guns operate on blowback operation.

 

[pmaitra]

Which would be ridiculous. Only sub-machine guns operate on blowback operation.

They are rare, and perhaps not so contemporary, but blow-back operated rifles do exist.

Ruger 10/22

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Kbs wz. 1996 Beryl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
ya ,it is gas operated. I think some of guys don't even have knowledge of their homemade equipment, funny that they are criticizing other nations equipment

 

[militarysta]

there is light weight variant of INSAS known as kalantak which is lighter than beryl

So?
There is MiniBeryl or BerylComando which is lighter then standard INSAS, and again -so?
Standard INSAS is 15% lightr then standard Beryl.
And this is end of INSAS advantages.

.
there is 12 year gap between 2014 and 2002 so the price can be 1300 dollars
(...)
price of beryl is 1200 dollar in this link and many quote it 1300 dollar
.
Polish Beryl "Archer" 5.56x45 (.223) with A Non-Folding Collapsible Stock #AKAGUN-POLBER

No, it's not.
You had tried to compare price for US customer "cyvilian" version 22.LR whit big scale military version, it's pointles and not true.
I had postad price for polish army and source:
Beryl – Wiki Uzbrojenie

w roku 2002 za każdy egzemplarz karabinu szturmowego wz. 96 Beryl płacono około 600 USD. Według wielu opinii, była to cena zawyżona o około 30%

is your beryl gas operated automatic? No.

LoL
Is any AKM gas operated automatic? Answer yourself

does it has been operated from coldest place to one of hottest? Does it is operated from highest military point or in a valley ?

Of course Yes, Beryl was tested (as any weapons in Poland) in incerdible severe and harsh conditions in polish WITU instytute and in sevral climates zones. In sucht test polish army rejected for example israeli turrets RCWS-30 and UTD-30 as unable to worki in polish conditions and in extremly cold climates. In polish mountains -28-30 in winter is nothing extraordinery. I was living in mountains whole childchood and as teneeager so I know what I said
What more - I was in light infanty so again - I know what can be dempeertaure. Beryl perform very well. I know - Himalaya are colder, but for sucht test are climate chambers in WITU insytute when weapons must operate in under -40 degree and more.
Hot climate? Well - lol becouse Beryl was check whit polish troops in Irak, africa, and in Afganistan (BTW: they are cold winters too). And Beryl perform extremly well in sucht conditions.

and twinblade sir already told why problems occurred in insas.

About twinblade BS will be separated post.

 

[militarysta]

one of polish guy accepted in MBT thread that beryl not gas operated hence the claim

Show me this post

 

[militarysta]

What more, sdupit Polskatard rely on wikipedia. Insas has problems in cold weather in Kargil and Siachen. For the record, that area is the second coldest place on earth and the coldest place on earth with active military deployment. The extreme cold caused brittleness in gun parts.

Rotfl!

Liar liar pants on fire...

INSAS rifles outdated, not designed for long fight

he Times of India on August 12, 2001 published a news report that the
(Indian) army had complained that the 5.56 INSAS was not performing to the
optimum level with major defects like cold arrest, breakage and cracking of
components reported in active areas like Siachen glacier, Kargil heights and
other high altitude areas. The Pili area of Kalikot where the Nepalese
soldiers died is a high altitude area with difficult terrain.

The report quoted a top army official saying that the major defects in the
assault rifle were like change lever system, breakage of handle, screw
locking butt, crack of retainer and breakage of barrel bulge have come to
the fore from forwards areas. The report also said that these defects which
had come to the fore even during the Kargil conflict were yet to be
rectified. In another report, The Rediff Special said: "The INSAS rifle, the
personal weapon of the Indian infantryman, is outdated. Many were the
defects it threw up in the cold of the Himalayas. After the war, the army
asked for better rifles."

Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine

Indian Army's main infantry weapon, the INSAS (Indian Small Arms System) rifle is falling apart, reporting defects and accidents.
Defence minister AK Antony admitted in the Lok Sabha on Monday that the indigenous rifle INSAS has reported improper heat treatment and firing of segregated ammunition. He said prior to 2003, soldiers had reported a problem of oil spray in the eyes of the firer. He said since then design has been modified. He added that defects reports are being forwarded Authority Holding Sealed Particulars, which conducts investigations n consultations with other agencies.
Experts believe that despite over 13 years of development work, the carbine of the rifle was unacceptable due to the "high sound level and heating of the muzzle".

During the 1999 Kargil war, the rifle had reportedly encountered reliability problem in the cold climate. Due to cold weather, the rifle would jam occasionally and its polymer magazines would crack.

Tracing INSAS failure

"The INSAS project exhibited many of the problems that afflicted the larger Indian defense research and development efforts," says Professor Rajesh Rajgopalan of the Jawaharlal Nehru University. According to him, "The INSAS project was established during a period of particular optimism in India's domestic defense industrial research, what one author characterised as a 'return to selfsufficiency' after two decades of depending on imported arms."
(...)
The 2001 CAG Report also points to a number of quality control issues with the INSAS assault rifle, the most serious of which was operability problems in sub-zero weather, a necessary requirement for an Army that is constantly deployed in the Siachen glacier.
(...)
Another CAG Report in 2005 noted continuing problems with the production quality of the INSAS rifle. Under new rules established by the Controllerate of Quality Assurance — Small Arms (CQA-SA) at Ishapore — new rules established because of quality problems with previously supplied INSAS rifles —INSAS rifles that failed three 're-proofs' would be sentenced as 'Drill Purpose' (DP) weapons, to be issued only to training schools for instructional purposes. CAG noticed that between April 2002 and June 2004, 3,666 INSAS rifles failed in the third re-proof, forcing them to be condemned as DP weapons.
(...)
Some variants of the INSAS family, in particular the Carbine, appear to be dogged by problems. The INSAS Carbine has undergone significant difficulties from the beginning.
(..)
even after the INSAS was produced and entered Indian Army inventories, quality problems with the gun and the ammunition as well as inadequate supply of the INSAS by OFB

As a stop gap measure, barrels for INSAS were imported from Finland while the local production process was revised to rectify the metallurgy for cold weather.

ROTFL so you where bubbling about spaceships and IBC'ms and "India stronk !1111!" but your country industry is unable to made propper working in cold climate rifle barrels
how phatetic!
first lern how to made barrels and working in -40 rifles then go to space
India industry stornk!1111!

 

[militarysta]

BTW:

Indian Army: Reminiscences of a Soldier » Indian Defence Review | Page 2

n Counter Insurgency (CI) tasks that we performed during our LoC tenure, we preferred the AK 47 and the good old 7.62 LMG over the INSAS family which was considered to be a poor demonstration of research and production by our DRDO and the Ordinance Factories, so much so for developing our indigenous capabilities

 

[militarysta]

edit (double post)

 

[militarysta]

And that is correct, Berly is just a clone of AKM, And that is why INSAS is not comparable to Berly but its MBBS close to INSAS ..

What?

INSAS | Weapon.ge - Modern Firearms Encyclopedia

The INSAS rifle is broadly based on the famous Kalashnikov AK-47 action, but with many modifications. The basic gas-operated action with long stroke gas piston and a rotating bolt, as well as the stamped steel receiver, are generally the same as in modern Kalashnikov rifles. However, the gas system is fitted with a manual gas regulator, similar in design to that found on FN FAL rifles, as well as a gas cutoff. The charging handle has been moved from the bolt carrier to the left side of the forearm; it is similar in position and design to German HK G3 rifle.

Tracing INSAS failure

All the traditional small arms in the Indian inventory were also copies of imported weapons, usually produced under license. What is slightly different in the current phase is that some of these copies might not be duplicates made under license but rather reverse engineered models with minor variations. Even the INSAS rifle could potentially fall within this category, though the INSAS appears to have borrowed features from many models rather than any single one. Two, the delays in the DRDO/ARDE developed INSAS small arms family led to the import of temporary substitutes such as variants of the Soviet/Russian AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifle from various sources in Central and Eastern Europe.

Both - Beryl and INSAS are AKM clones, of course Beryl whit minor and INSAS whit major difrencess.
The only difrence is that Beryl is working whithouts problems and now will be replace by MSBS...

 

[militarysta]

.
price of beryl is 1200 dollar in this link and many quote it 1300 dollar
.

To be honest - 600USD for Beryl is the lowest price for polish MoD, the highest price is 1600USD per 1 rifle.
Why so expensive?
Becouse those "1600USD beryl" have as standard:
- fully adjustable rifle butt
- 4x universal rails MIL-STD-1913 (4x 25-40USD so 100-160USD)
- front grip (circa 50-70USD)
- new mags
- sight EOTech HWS 552.A65/1 (circa 700USD in 2010)

in 2012 this sight was 2200 PLN so circa 700USD.

As you can see - lowest Beryl price: 600USD
the highest Berylprice : 1600USD
BUT:
1600USD
minus:
- EOTech HWS 552.A65/1 (700USD)
- front grip (50-70USD)
- 4x niversal rails MIL-STD-1913 (100-160USD)
all:
1600USD - 850 or 930USD = 750-670USD per on "nacked" Beryl. So diffrent then 600USD?

this 1600USD Beryl:

 

[militarysta]

Standard 600USD Beryl rifle in winter:
..:: 10BKPanc :: 2010 ::..

1600USD in Afganistan:

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/land-forces/3796-assault-rifle-144.html
.
here , kunal sir says no gas regulators on beryl and your polish mate replies but doesn't oppose the claim
.
about weight, next post or the same post , there your polish mate says more weight means more accuracy hence INSAS more accurate than beryl.
.
can you give of reference about beryl being tested in -40°c .
.
1600 dollar! We can buy 5 INSAS which are superior, have better aim , better barrels

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Does INSAS is 1 ton equipment that it is hard to carry? Yet already proved by kunal sir how INSAS have better aim.
.
no gas regulator ! Well in 300 dollar , we can have a rifle which have better regulator than 1600 dollar
.
INSAS's barred have better quality than that of beryl's
.