Leibstandarte
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Indian Army kisi party ki baap ki jageer nhi hein ki election jeetne k liye operations karwa diye.What is your problem with vote bank ? If 26/11 cab labeled as Hindu terrorism, Army Colonel jailed and labeled terrorists, etc for vote bank. Why are you loosing your mind over it, Politician do politics over everything.
When a porki says their 1 soldier is as good as 10 troops from our side, Hindus are kutta(dog), and they won 1965, etc they do it for propaganda. Then there is psychological aspect to it, they show their people that they are invincible, no one can touch them. Indians are coward and only shell civilians while we do Bat operations and bring trophies.
I say why shouldn't we counter this ? Many people here also agree and hence they spend time digging internet about their casualties and exposing them to bust their propaganda. And show them that they are being told lie and their Army is not invincible, far worse they get killed like dogs and run away when challenged, like they did in the last raid.
While what many here are doing by showing the photo of their dead troops, It remain only upto internet users, Pakis being mostly backward don't get to know. But when our politicians talk about it, they do a debate on their TV. And many Indian channels which pakis pick through DTH shows what is the reality. I say our TV should take these pictures from DFI and show them on TV also.
Its all about breaking the Myth on which Pakistan is standing and everything will come crashing down. How do you think a country as sold out in debt and doing nothing has been surviving so long. Its all Myth of falsehood and fake bravado, propaganda etc.
About defaming Army, let them do it, people will respond to that when their time comes through ballot. You should remember what happened to those who questioned last years SS.
Don't ever be ashamed of our troops, they hardly get any medal or extra pay for taking the risk and doing these raids. Even then they do it for Morale, Izzat of Paltan and their reputation. Their effort must be acknowledged and rewarded. The question we should be asking the Government through media is what are we doing to reward our brave hearts, not why are they glorifying them.
I can cite 3 awards from cross border raids but i wont.These tweets from a veteran sum up the difference b/w very well;
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@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Screambowl
Yes, covert actions have been carried out in the past in response to TSPA's action @ LC. But, the point is that then the people had not asked for answers from the then establishment and the media wasn't as strong as it is currently. Also, the need for boasting of Army's action is necessary to tell the public that we have avenged and we will do what's necessary in response to TSPA's misadventures.
That is debatable, however, my comment was in defence of anyone, in this case Lt. Cdr. Gokul, who criticizes the boasting, and people, either due to ignorance or malice, add their own interpretation as to criticism of the military action.Actually that's the best strategy. Hit them hard catch them by balls and then yell out from top that we did this. What this does its putting pressure on Pak army which is being exposed in front of their population which thinks Pak army is invincible due to decades of lie propoganda fed by Pak army that India is a coward nation and 1 PA men is equal to 10 IA personnel. Their population still is under illusion that Pak won 1965 and Kargil war. That illusion and propoganda has to be broken to bring down morale of porki Army and public both.
Also we have to cater to world audience that we are no more sissies and we will hot pursue our enemies right into their own territories. This will also put pressure on Pakistan as world will ignore our actions as response to Pak actions and if Pakistan cries in front of world they will simply tell them to mend their ways first.
I think you are missing the point.If your enemy knows, it is no longer covert. Since this operation is known by Pakistan, why call it covert?
Hiding from your own people while your enemy knows what is going in is highly disgusting behaviour.
Army is subservient to political dispensation. So stop this juvenile eulogising. No one is child here not see as the things are actually.Indian Army kisi party ki baap ki jageer nhi hein ki election jeetne k liye operations karwa diye.
Indian Army is apoliticial just like Supreme court of India and most Indians like me didnt vote for Modi to ban cow meat or put Indian Army in election posters but for development.
I have a fucking huge problem if Army is brought into politics as this gives chance to Congress and AAP to make silly comments about Army.
Indian Army when declares it did surgical strike is the truth for me.No debate,No discussions no BC chest thumping over it.
Surgical strikes were also conducted by muslim soldiers who might not believe in hindu ideology.
I am not a hindutva agenda guy here and to be honest i hardly care about anyones religion unlike many people here.Its my upbringing and i am proud of it.
This Army also belongs to Abdul Hameed and Abdul Qayuum and also to Bana Singh.
By putting religion card in everything we have only corrupted the system.
And i dont expect even 2% of the audience here to understand this.Had this been the case there wouldnt be any extremists..would they?
The same Lt. Cdr Gokul criticized the PM for having SPG protection in the Army camp when he visited them during Deepawali. If I ain't wrong, he also questioned the authenticity of the SS last year. If you would ask me, I would put him in the same category of Ajai Shukla in terms of trustworthiness.That is debatable, however, my comment was in defence of anyone, in this case Lt. Cdr. Gokul, who criticizes the boasting, and people, either due to ignorance or malice, add their own interpretation as to criticism of the military action.
Either the public or government of Pakistan, both are enemies. This operation is clear cut without anything hidden. What is there to hide? If Pakistan can know, so can Indian public. It is always important to tell your people what you are doing so that the enemy is not able to spread rumours against you or because the public can be sure of your intentions.I think you are missing the point.
You say if the "enemy" knows, then it is no longer covert. How do you define the term "enemy?" Do you mean the Pakistani public or the Pakistani government? Please clarify and re-read my comment again.
During the Bangladesh Liberation War, a lot of things were hidden, and I do not see anything disgusting in it. Celebrations can come after victory. I don't know how to define victory in a conflict that is ongoing with no territorial fait accompli.
Yes, I am very much aware of that and I am not remotely impressed.The same Lt. Cdr Gokul criticized the PM for having SPG protection in the Army camp when he visited them during Deepawali. If I ain't wrong, he also questioned the authenticity of the SS last year. If you would ask me, I would put him in the same category of Ajai Shukla in terms of trustworthiness.
You totally got the wrong impression, Army is not being used by any Political party here. Military is an institution used for political moves but that is another thing which I am sure will confuse you more and spoil everything. If you are insisting that Surgical Strikes took place after some political party insisted then It is totally wrong perception, the sooner you get that out of your head the better. Our Army is a National force, they don't take orders from the party, they simply say no we can't do that, just like Sam told Indira that he was not ready. Last time someone tried to do that in 62 by changing the commanders we all know what was the result.Indian Army kisi party ki baap ki jageer nhi hein ki election jeetne k liye operations karwa diye.
Indian Army is apoliticial just like Supreme court of India and most Indians like me didnt vote for Modi to ban cow meat or put Indian Army in election posters but for development.
I have a fucking huge problem if Army is brought into politics as this gives chance to Congress and AAP to make silly comments about Army.
Indian Army when declares it did surgical strike is the truth for me.No debate,No discussions no BC chest thumping over it.
Surgical strikes were also conducted by muslim soldiers who might not believe in hindu ideology.
I am not a hindutva agenda guy here and to be honest i hardly care about anyones religion unlike many people here.Its my upbringing and i am proud of it.
This Army also belongs to Abdul Hameed and Abdul Qayuum and also to Bana Singh.
By putting religion card in everything we have only corrupted the system.
And i dont expect even 2% of the audience here to understand this.Had this been the case there wouldnt be any extremists..would they?
Remotely impressed with Modi or him?Yes, I am very much aware of that and I am not remotely impressed.
Lt. Cdr. Gokul was also abused. I have responded accordingly. Follow this link.
I think you are missing the point again. If the public is unaware and the information remains within the government, then there is less pressure on the government to carry out further attacks.Either the public or government of Pakistan, both are enemies. This operation is clear cut without anything hidden. What is there to hide? If Pakistan can know, so can Indian public. It is always important to tell your people what you are doing so that the enemy is not able to spread rumours against you or because the public can be sure of your intentions.
In Bangladesh war, everything was hidden. The fact that it was a hindu genocide was hidden. Obviously, had that been told, tehre would have been riots and war in India and India would have freed of muslims forever and would have been much more beneficial. Bangladesh war only resulted in splitting of Pakistan into two without making them suffer any losses as such. The nations can reunite again. It i indeed disgusting as misinformation has resulted in poor decision making. Had people been better informed, people would have informed better.
Betrayal by rulers is a common thing. Rulers/Government is not divine. They are just another bunch of people with some responsibility. It is impossible to put full trust in anyone and hope that they don't betray. Every action which is not covert must be disclosed. Even when action is not possible to be disclosed, intention must be. Only when the intention of government is accepted by people, will the government be legitimate
Oh, it was you? Interesting. I didn't quite bother to remember who did it. I responded and moved on.Remotely impressed with Modi or him?
He was abused by me, yes. But, you have posted the reply to a totally different incident.
Some operations are covert, and are meant to be so. Now, take for instance, we will never hear the actions of TSD, because they are not meant for public consumption. But, the SS was meant to be told to the public, infact, it was already decided that it will be announced the to public when the plans were drawn. Coming to cross-border raids, it need not be told to the public, but the public should hear about it, to know that the Army is giving back and avenging rather than just facing casualties.but my point is, making covert actions public is not in the best interests.
That is a subjective conclusion. You may be right or wrong.Some operations are covert, and are meant to be so. Now, take for instance, we will never hear the actions of TSD, because they are not meant for public consumption. But, the SS was meant to be told to the public, infact, it was already decided that it will be announced the to public when the plans were drawn. Coming to cross-border raids, it need not be told to the public, but the public should hear about it, to know that the Army is giving back and avenging rather than just facing casualties.
In 1971 international laws prohibited any cross border action and It was seen as an act of war. After 9/11 UN adopted a resolution which allows the members to attack the area controlled by terrorists even If that involves crossing the international Border. It is through this resolution that USA attacked Afghanistan then. And this resolution is still being used by various countries to punish or harm various terrorist organizations and those who aid them.I think you are missing the point again. If the public is unaware and the information remains within the government, then there is less pressure on the government to carry out further attacks.
Coming to Bangladesh, what you say might be correct, but you are forgetting the most important thing. India could not have made anything public until situations were favourable. It is a long discussion, but my point is, making covert actions public is not in the best interests.
Then there is the case of plausible deniability. We are also governed by international laws. This was true in 1971 and is true today.
Look at the screenshot below. I am glad we have professionals handling the public relations department of the army. Here is an example below.
View attachment 22247
You are right about that resolution. Does it help India?In 1971 international laws prohibited any cross border action and It was seen as an act of war. After 9/11 UN adopted a resolution which allows the members to attack the area controlled by terrorists even If that involves crossing the international Border. It is through this resolution that USA attacked Afghanistan then. And this resolution is still being used by various countries to punish or harm various terrorist organizations and those who aid them.
Which is why after SS last year no country in the P5 came to the aid of Pakistan. Today all the P5 have satellites and monitor every move in conflict zones. Nothing is hidden, probably in 5-10 years even common civilians may have real time imaging, subject to reasonable restrictions by their respective Governments.
I was taking about the International Law which is with us.You are right about that resolution. Does it help India?
The USA, Russia and PRC can do a lot of things that we cannot.
On top of that, we are not talking about only the international border. We are talking about the international border and the LoC. Even if we cross, how is the world going to react?
When the US invaded Afghanistan, all its allies lined up behind the big boss. That ain't happening with India.
No country came to the aid of Pakistan at various points in time, depending upon the situation. Remember Kargil and Sharif's meeting with Clinton?
The international community will go soft on India when some countries are trying to sell their weapons to India. The moment they realize we are not buying, they will start making a lot of noise. This is just one example.
We should not take these flip-flops are a permanent achievement. The international community still regards J&K as a disputed territory. We do not have the economic clout to change that.
Pakistan is an asset for many countries, especially the US, PRC, and KSA.
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