Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

[tharun]

Waves of cruise missiles plus SF raids plus our air defence systems coupled with advanced sat systems can do the job.

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Damn man we need those Nirbhayas in large number to target cheap military installation on Pakis side.

Wait what? Nirbhay is still expensive. PGMs are the cheapest

Suppose we are invading POK and we are using cruise missile on the following ocassions
》First we blow up their base in Gilgit Balistan
》Second we target their Air Base and Runways in Punjab region
》Then Para SF descends on POK to clear rest of the remaining filth.
》Infantry Charges in to hold ground and maintain supply route

We would probably need ~1000 Nirbhay and ~100 brahmos strikes to achieve air superiority within 12 hours, chances are high that out of 1000, ~100-150 might fail to hit their targets, such thing happened with Tomahawks.

There should be a 1st wave of only cruise missile strikes to make Pakistan blind and incapable within 1-2 hours, with 8 hours of massive air campaign involving electronic attack aircraft and fighter squadrons to clear the all of PAF and their Air Defense.

But for that 42 fighter squadron strength is a must.

For that we have SAAW, Smart Bombs for any poki military bases within 100km from IB/ LoC. Cruise missiles for further targets ofcourse. We can release river water through Dams to flood their territory along with Artillery firing from our side and slow down their logistics mobilization.

1)Military Mission:
-First thing needed is SEAD-Suppression of enemy defenses:
-We need to send the decoy missiles like ADM-160 MALD which are way cheaper and memic as real fighters jets.By this we can deplete the SAM systems.
-Anti radation missiles along with decoys will decrease the radar threat.
-We need to destroy the airbases runways and fuel dumps,ammunition dumps.
-Then the AIr force will achieve air superiority.
-Then comes the long range MLRS or cruise missiles to destroy the enemy artillery be it MLRS or cannon
-Cluster ammunition to stop the enemy tank movement.
2)Economic Mission:
-We need to take out the ports and civilian airports to decrease the external help.
-Take out the total fuel reserves,power stations etc.

 

[Mikesingh]

1)Military Mission:
-First thing needed is SEAD-Suppression of enemy defenses:
-We need to send the decoy missiles like ADM-160 MALD which are way cheaper and memic as real fighters jets.By this we can deplete the SAM systems.
-Anti radation missiles along with decoys will decrease the radar threat.
-We need to destroy the airbases runways and fuel dumps,ammunition dumps.
-Then the AIr force will achieve air superiority.
-Then comes the long range MLRS or cruise missiles to destroy the enemy artillery be it MLRS or cannon
-Cluster ammunition to stop the enemy tank movement.
2)Economic Mission:
-We need to take out the ports and civilian airports to decrease the external help.
-Take out the total fuel reserves,power stations etc.

Most of what you've mentioned is only possible after achieving air superiority. Remember, this is not the East Pakistan scenario of 1971 where the PAF had just 16 Sabres, 2 T-33 Trainers, and 8 Helicopters.

Gaining air superiority in this age and stage is not going to be a walk in the park. So all this talk of invading POK/GB is wishful thinking.

Even if we do manage to capture some features in POK, holding them will be an uphill task where the tenuous lines of communications (logistics) will continuously be under threat from the PAF, the Pak Army as well as their 'strategic assets' like the LeT and JeM who have been raised and trained specifically for such contingencies where spreading terror in Kashmir is just one part of their training.

Without secure lines of communications our positions will become untenable. We would thus need an enormous amount of personnel to secure them. Our forward logistics bases in enemy territory would also be extremely vulnerable to enemy action. And without supplies - food, water, ammo, spares etc you would be sunk.

This is exactly what happened to Pak's Northern Light Infantry in Kargil where our Mirages destroyed their main logistics base at Muntho Dhalo on our side of the LoC as a result of which the Pak troops went with food, water and ammo which forced them to beat a hasty retreat.

The destruction of this Paki logistics base which consisted of personnel of Pak's Army Service Corps (Supplies), Ordnance Corps, Engineers, Signals, field hospital, NLI reinforcements, jihadi porters etc resulted in over 300 Pak casualties which has been corroborated by the CIA.

So all this talk about just walking in and recapturing POK/GB is a bit of a stretch. And most importantly, not a viable option.

What is far more rational and prudent would be to wait while Pak itself implodes and self destructs which hopefully would be sooner than later.

 

[Bornubus]

Jammu: A dozen Indians have now lost their lives in heavy cross-border shelling across the Line of Control (LoC) and the International Border (IB) in the last four days.

According to sources posted near the border areas, such intense shelling hasn't been seen in border areas in at least the last one-and-a-half years. Police and health services have sounded a red alert in the area and have moved more than 40,000 people living in border villages to safer areas.


All indicators point towards further escalations in cross-border shelling.

A BSF IG posted in Jammu said that he hadn't seen the present level of 'tensions' on the border for some time, and added that Pakistanis, for last few days, have been firing "continuously and accurately."

"The situation is tense no doubt. They have been firing continuously, accurately. But we have retaliated with equal force and accuracy each time," the BSF's IG, Jammu, Ram Avtar said.

Another senior officer, who did not want to be quoted, claimed that Pakistan had been opening fire from their 120 mm guns more often in the last couple of days, suggesting intentions of upping the ante and causing greater damage on the Indian side.

"Shelling across the border has been escalating over last two days. They have been using their 120 mm gun more often now. Although these guns have a range of 7 kms, they have been aiming their guns at our posts most of the time, clearly aiming to kill our soldiers, but we have given it back to them without suffering many casualties," the senior officer said.

It is a wait and watch game, the officer added. "Pakistanis have created three-tier reinforced bunkers, within which they retreat after firing at us. On our side, we have created a series of sand mounds for protection and to maintain vigilance."

He added that shots fired from the Indian side, unless they were to bring in the 150 mm Bofors guns, were largely ineffective on Pakistani bunkers, given their three-layered protection. The same was the case with Indian side.

"But it is when we are laying down communication lines or repairing the existing lines that their snipers, waiting in lurch, fire at our soldiers," said the officer.

So, is Pakistan really upping the ante and if so, to what end?

"We don't know at the moment, they're doing it perhaps to push in terrorists. No high-level flag meetings have been held in some time also, so there is no formal communication happening," said a source.
Is there a way to de-escalate the situation?

"Whenever we talk to them about these firings during flag meetings, we're told that it is the "non-state actors" who are responsible for these firings. So the situation is that "non-state actors" are pounding mortar at us and firing with automatic weapons, and Pakistan officially claims that either it has no knowledge of these attacks or doesn't control these rogue elements. So there really is no cooperation from their side," said the source.

India has claimed to have killed 12 Pakistani personnel, including 2 army regulars. While Pakistan has claimed to have killed half a dozen Indian soldiers and claims India violated ceasefire violations 110 times in last 18 days.



http://www.news18.com/news/india/cr...fies-is-pakistan-upping-the-ante-1638889.html

 

[Suryavanshi]

Most of what you've mentioned is only possible after achieving air superiority. Remember, this is not the East Pakistan scenario of 1971 where the PAF had just 16 Sabres, 2 T-33 Trainers, and 8 Helicopters.

Gaining air superiority in this age and stage is not going to be a walk in the park. So all this talk of invading POK/GB is wishful thinking.

Even if we do manage to capture some features in POK, holding them will be an uphill task where the tenuous lines of communications (logistics) will continuously be under threat from the PAF, the Pak Army as well as their 'strategic assets' like the LeT and JeM who have been raised and trained specifically for such contingencies where spreading terror in Kashmir is just one part of their training.

Without secure lines of communications our positions will become untenable. We would thus need an enormous amount of personnel to secure them. Our forward logistics bases in enemy territory would also be extremely vulnerable to enemy action. And without supplies - food, water, ammo, spares etc you would be sunk.

This is exactly what happened to Pak's Northern Light Infantry in Kargil where our Mirages destroyed their main logistics base at Muntho Dhalo on our side of the LoC as a result of which the Pak troops went with food, water and ammo which forced them to beat a hasty retreat.

View attachment 22732

The destruction of this Paki logistics base which consisted of personnel of Pak's Army Service Corps (Supplies), Ordnance Corps, Engineers, Signals, field hospital, NLI reinforcements, jihadi porters etc resulted in over 300 Pak casualties which has been corroborated by the CIA.

So all this talk about just walking in and recapturing POK/GB is a bit of a stretch. And most importantly, not a viable option.

What is far more rational and prudent would be to wait while Pak itself implodes and self destructs which hopefully would be sooner than later.

Sir ji how effective would it be to do water war through manipulation of IWT.
We make 50:50 arrangement on water sharing

 

[indus]

In my view capturing and holding PoK or GB is a long shot at present. A long term strategy shld be carved out to capture it no doubt. But what can be done right now is to start attacking the terror camps and/or do cross border raids or drone strikes whenever a HVT visits those areas. Our focus and narrative shld be to kill terrorism which gives us a kind of plausible deniability that our Ops are against terrorism and not Pak per se.

 

[Jyotiprakash Nabajiban]

I

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posted this video earlier which is shared by Elite predators

 

[Bornubus]

Mound IB

====================

 

[Poseidon]

Most of what you've mentioned is only possible after achieving air superiority. Remember, this is not the East Pakistan scenario of 1971 where the PAF had just 16 Sabres, 2 T-33 Trainers, and 8 Helicopters.

Gaining air superiority in this age and stage is not going to be a walk in the park. So all this talk of invading POK/GB is wishful thinking.

An offensive is certainly possible in Skardu sector.
Remember we captured 800 sq km territory in GB during 1971.
Another possible offensive would be in Neelum valley.
But then Pakistan might try a counter offensive in poonch so defences need to be upped there.

 

[Mikesingh]

Sir ji how effective would it be to do water war through manipulation of IWT.
We make 50:50 arrangement on water sharing

That's what we're doing!! But this is a long term project which would take at least 6 to 7 years as we have to construct catchment areas and canals to divert water.

"Blood and water cannot flow simultaneously", PPM Modi had said during a review last year of the 56-year-old Indus Water Treaty during which it was decided that India will "exploit to the maximum" the water of Pakistan-controlled rivers, including Jhelum, as per the water-sharing pact. We are at present giving far more to Pak than what has been specified in the IWT. India grossly under-utilises its entitlement under the 1960-treaty where it can use all the waters of the Jhelum, Chenab and Indus. Additionally, according to the treaty, India has unrestricted use of the eastern rivers (Ravi, Beas, Sutlej), but utilizes only 20%.

We need to restart the Tulbul Project. India unilaterally suspended the project (Islamabad calls it Wullar Barrage) in 1987 after Pakistan objected. If done, India gets to control Jhelum water, which will have an adverse impact on Pakistan agriculture. The Project can create problems for Pakistan's triple-canal project that connects Jhelum-Chenab with Upper Bari Doab Canal.

Additionally, with the barrage, India controls release of water into Jhelum, which could trigger a flood or drought in POK and Pakistan. This would pose very serious implications for agriculture in Pakistan.

If this is done, then Pak will be up shit creek without a paddle. They are already water starved at present due also to their gross mismanagement of water resources. Reducing the flow into Pak (according to the IWT) will spell disaster to them.

But as I mentioned, this will take time - 6 to 7 years. And there lies the rub!!

 

[Kazah]

Jammu: A dozen Indians have now lost their lives in heavy cross-border shelling across the Line of Control (LoC) and the International Border (IB) in the last four days.

According to sources posted near the border areas, such intense shelling hasn't been seen in border areas in at least the last one-and-a-half years. Police and health services have sounded a red alert in the area and have moved more than 40,000 people living in border villages to safer areas.


All indicators point towards further escalations in cross-border shelling.

A BSF IG posted in Jammu said that he hadn't seen the present level of 'tensions' on the border for some time, and added that Pakistanis, for last few days, have been firing "continuously and accurately."

"The situation is tense no doubt. They have been firing continuously, accurately. But we have retaliated with equal force and accuracy each time," the BSF's IG, Jammu, Ram Avtar said.

Another senior officer, who did not want to be quoted, claimed that Pakistan had been opening fire from their 120 mm guns more often in the last couple of days, suggesting intentions of upping the ante and causing greater damage on the Indian side.

"Shelling across the border has been escalating over last two days. They have been using their 120 mm gun more often now. Although these guns have a range of 7 kms, they have been aiming their guns at our posts most of the time, clearly aiming to kill our soldiers, but we have given it back to them without suffering many casualties," the senior officer said.

It is a wait and watch game, the officer added. "Pakistanis have created three-tier reinforced bunkers, within which they retreat after firing at us. On our side, we have created a series of sand mounds for protection and to maintain vigilance."

He added that shots fired from the Indian side, unless they were to bring in the 150 mm Bofors guns, were largely ineffective on Pakistani bunkers, given their three-layered protection. The same was the case with Indian side.

"But it is when we are laying down communication lines or repairing the existing lines that their snipers, waiting in lurch, fire at our soldiers," said the officer.

So, is Pakistan really upping the ante and if so, to what end?

"We don't know at the moment, they're doing it perhaps to push in terrorists. No high-level flag meetings have been held in some time also, so there is no formal communication happening," said a source.
Is there a way to de-escalate the situation?

"Whenever we talk to them about these firings during flag meetings, we're told that it is the "non-state actors" who are responsible for these firings. So the situation is that "non-state actors" are pounding mortar at us and firing with automatic weapons, and Pakistan officially claims that either it has no knowledge of these attacks or doesn't control these rogue elements. So there really is no cooperation from their side," said the source.

India has claimed to have killed 12 Pakistani personnel, including 2 army regulars. While Pakistan has claimed to have killed half a dozen Indian soldiers and claims India violated ceasefire violations 110 times in last 18 days.



http://www.news18.com/news/india/cr...fies-is-pakistan-upping-the-ante-1638889.html

BSF IG words are a bit concerning, he is indirectly saying that pakistan is ready to escalate but we need more time

 

[Jyotiprakash Nabajiban]

Heavy mortar strikes by BSF has hit a PAKISTANI fuel dumps & ammunition depot..

Watch this Thermal imaging grab accessed by India today news channel
Ammunition dump & fuel dump on FIRE & burning away
Heavy casualities feared

Heavy gunbattle in Akhnoor sector...is on....Looks like Pakistanis need some patent medicine....Bahut HALLA GULLA Kar rahe hain...
requesting BSF & Indian army to give them another bloodynosed Surgical strike Ver 2.0

 

[Bornubus]

BSF IG words are a bit concerning, he is indirectly saying that pakistan is ready to escalate but we need more time

According to the article BSF firepower has little effect on Pak Bunkers which according to the report are 3 tier reinforced Bunkers and will take damage only from high cal Guns. In old article local Indian civilians also contested the claims of BSF

Pakistan has not asked for any flag meeting either, same as us

 

[Kazah]

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[Bornubus]

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Someone tell this dunghead it's Bhartiya not Bharti

 

[Kazah]

Also some paki casualties happened at nakial sector today morning

 

[Project Dharma]

In old article local Indian civilians also contested the claims of BSF

Contested claims regarding ?
......................................................

 

[pankaj nema]

Also some paki casualties happened at nakial sector today morning

Operation BHIM

Earlier it was operation Arjun

Now Arjun ka Bada Bhai aa gaya :bounce:

 

[pankaj nema]

Dear Punjabi Speaking members of DFI

Could you please translate this Pakistani video

 

[Project Dharma]

Dear Punjabi Speaking members of DFI

Could you please translate this Pakistani video

He is just blabbering about asking Modi not to mess with Pak or they are gonna teach India a lesson because they have determination blah blah blah

Gay ass song and gay ass voice.

 

[Avenger01]

What is Operation Bhim along the border launched by BSF? Can someone please explain? What's going on?