S-400 performance in Syria = Paper Tiger

[INDIAFIRST]

S400 yaar kya hai yeah like we never used Prithvi missile even we had chance like 26feb are we surer we will use S400
Somebody tell me why we bought this instead of developing it indigenously

 

[asianobserve]

Because SK is Faaar smaller, economically and militarily, than India. Hence they can be bullied. What is china crying over India gonna do? Only make it look weak.

BTW CCP state media has already written articles about how india is "Destabilising" South Asia by buying S400.

China and SoKor's bilateral trade is far bigger than China and India's bilateral trade. Look it up.

 

[asianobserve]

You have comprehension issues. We obviously listened to American details about thaad and patriot and found them inadequate compared to s400.

If we found any merit in American system we will buy that instead of s400. Just like we bought Chinook over russian helicopters and Rafale over fgfa.

Patriot is the most battle tested AD in service and the continued Saudi use against regular Houthi drone, ballistic and cruise missile attacks mean that Raytheon and LM are getting continued actual use data to tweak Patriot's software and hardware. Already PAC-3 will receive new fins. So it should trump all analogues.

S-400 on the other hand has very little experience. Plus, the Americans and Israelis are continually monitoring S-400's performance in Syria. And as I said before, China already know what S-400 can and cannot do since they have it. And if China knows it, so will Pakistan, or at least when situation comes to worst, Pakistan will know it from China.

 

[asianobserve]

And I'm sceptical of any S400's BMD claims, especially beyond very short range ballistic missiles, specifications are very sketchy IMO we will only use it in SAM role. Either ways point remains that its still un-proven in either role, over the years I have learned to be sceptical of any over the top claims for Russian maal unless proven in the field.

Russian S-400 Capability Overrated: Swedish Defense Research Agency

The S-400 air defence system is often claimed to have a 400-km range, but FOI’s technical experts estimate that the effective range against maneuvering targets at low altitude is much less, even down to 20 km for smaller targets hugging the terrain,” according to the report.

In its current configuration, the S-400 system should mainly be considered a threat to large high-value aircraft such as AWACS or transport aircraft at medium to high altitudes, out to a range of 200-250 km. In contrast, the effective range against agile fighter jets and cruise missiles operating at low altitudes can be as little 20- 35 km.

There are several measures for countering A2/AD systems. Some are passive, such as flying around the coverage area of sensors, or stationing troops at a location in good time. Others are active countermeasures, both “soft,” in the form of electronic jamming or chaff dispersed from aircraft, and “hard,” where portions of overall capability are physically knocked out, the report stated.

One can neutralise an entire system by knocking out just one link in a functional chain, for example a data link or fire-control radar.

Russian S-400 Capability Overrated: Swedish Defense Research Agency

Swedish Defense Research Agency, FOI in its recent report states that the range of the Russian S-400 Triumf air defence system and its capability to counter counter-measures is overrated. According to the report, “Bursting the Bubble? Russia´s A2AD-Capabilities in the Baltic Sea Region”...

www.defenseworld.net

 

[Sigmamale101]

Russian S-400 Capability Overrated: Swedish Defense Research Agency

Russian S-400 Capability Overrated: Swedish Defense Research Agency

Swedish Defense Research Agency, FOI in its recent report states that the range of the Russian S-400 Triumf air defence system and its capability to counter counter-measures is overrated. According to the report, “Bursting the Bubble? Russia´s A2AD-Capabilities in the Baltic Sea Region”...

www.defenseworld.net

is west offering something better ?

 

[asianobserve]

is west offering something better ?

I read in some publications that the US tried to counter India's S-400 order by offering THAAD and Patriot systems. These systems are potent and secure even against China. And most importantly it will set Xi's pants on fire!

 

[asianobserve]

Sweden becomes first non-NATO partner with Patriot

Sweden becomes first non-NATO partner with Patriot

HALMSTAD, Sweden -- Senior leaders from 10th Army Air and Missile Defense Command, 164th Air Defense Artillery Brigade, and key leaders from the Swedish...

www.army.mil

Sweden put its first SAM Patriot with PAC-3 MSE into combat readiness

Sweden put its first SAM Patriot with PAC-3 MSE into combat readiness

It took the Swedes a month to bring their first surface-to-air missile [SAM] Patriot, armed with PAC-3 missiles, into full combat readiness, Defence24 reported.

www.google.com

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I read in some publications that the US tried to counter India's S-400 order by offering THAAD and Patriot systems. These systems are potent and secure even against China. And most importantly it will set Xi's pants on fire!

Pretty useless for Indian perspective. No way we could integrate them with out other AD as part of same network. Plus they are pretty costly. Even Turkey found it damn costly compared to S400

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

These systems are potent and secure even against China.

They are secure against china but by all reports, they are worse than s400. Try to check neutral reports instead of reading one sided propaganda and being hyped up about your preferred systems superiority.

 

[asianobserve]

They are secure against china but by all reports, they are worse than s400. Try to check neutral reports instead of reading one sided propaganda and being hyped up about your preferred systems superiority.

Reports from Russian bloggers? How can you compare a green weapons system like S-400 against a continuously battle tested and improved system like Patriot?

Anyway, go look for the Swedish Military Reasearch Agency report on S-400.

 

[Covfefe]

Russian S-400 Capability Overrated: Swedish Defense Research Agency

Russian S-400 Capability Overrated: Swedish Defense Research Agency

Swedish Defense Research Agency, FOI in its recent report states that the range of the Russian S-400 Triumf air defence system and its capability to counter counter-measures is overrated. According to the report, “Bursting the Bubble? Russia´s A2AD-Capabilities in the Baltic Sea Region”...

www.defenseworld.net

Lol what bs is this. These are generic points applicable to any AD system- low Flying for avoidance, flying around the coverage bubble, long range missiles effective for slow and non maneuverable aircrafts, electronic jamming, taking out fire control radar

 

[asianobserve]

Pretty useless for Indian perspective. No way we could integrate them with out other AD as part of same network. Plus they are pretty costly. Even Turkey found it damn costly compared to S400

Neither can you integrate S-400 with NASAMS, SPIDER, BARAK, etc... I would even argue that American THAAD and Patriots ADs are easier to integrate to the newer AD systems from Israel and the US that it already have.

 

[Covfefe]

Reports from Russian bloggers? How can you compare a green weapons system like S-400 against a continuously battle tested and improved system like Patriot?

Anyway, go look for the Swedish Military Reasearch Agency report on S-400.

If S400 is so ineffective then why is the US afraid of selling F35 to Turkey fearing that Russians could use the AD system to gather the data about the jet

 

[asianobserve]

Lol what bs is this. These are generic points applicable to any AD system- low Flying for avoidance, flying around the coverage bubble, long range missiles effective for slow and non maneuverable aircrafts, electronic jamming, taking out fire control radar

The specific findings would be confidential.

 

[asianobserve]

If S400 is so ineffective then why is the US afraid of selling F35 to Turkey fearing that Russians could use the AD system to gather the data about the jet

That's called leverage. The US is leveraging the F-35 to get Tirkey back to its senses.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Reports from Russian bloggers? How can you compare a green weapons system like S-400 against a continuously battle tested and improved system like Patriot?

Anyway, go look for the Swedish Military Reasearch Agency report on S-400.

?
S400 has been deployed, as well as its previous iteraions, and performed decently in the enviroment. Thaad has also performed no better, and in many cases significantly worse. So why is THAAD better than S400? Because it suits your narrative?

And I did go and read the report you suggested, its about as unbiased as you

 

[asianobserve]

Pretty useless for Indian perspective. No way we could integrate them with out other AD as part of same network. Plus they are pretty costly. Even Turkey found it damn costly compared to S400

In Turkey's case it was insisting on TOT for Patriot which the US did not want to give. And quality comes with a cost.

Feeling drunk from BRICS hype and domestic electoral gains, plus general dislike with the West on how Erdogan's EU membership dream remain stuck and how the US did not fully support his Syria adventures, Erdogan foolishly swung to Russia thinking he can gain leverage with the US. He gain notoriety instead.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

@asianobserver we get that you dont like s400, great, thanks, cheers.

But let others discuss whatever they want without butting in, k? You are repeating the same points over and over, and all the "vulnerabilities" you have declared are vulnerabilities applicable to ALL air defence systems.

 

[asianobserve]

?
S400 has been deployed, as well as its previous iteraions, and performed decently in the enviroment. Thaad has also performed no better, and in many cases significantly worse. So why is THAAD better than S400? Because it suits your narrative?

And I did go and read the report you suggested, its about as unbiased as you

This Swedish report coupled with how routinely the Israelis bomb Syrian strategic assets (like Latakia port which Rissia also uses) gives a clearer picture of S-400s inadequacy.

As to THAAD, which is purely an ABM, it has yet to be tested in real life. But it should benefit from Raytheon's constant experience with Patriots battle use, especially in Saudi which is constantly pounded by Houthis with ballistic missiles.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

This Swedish report coupled with how routinely the Israelis bomb Syrian strategic assets (like Latakia port which Rissia also uses) gives a clearer picture of S-400s inadequacy.

As to THAAD, which is purely an ABM, it has yet to be tested in real life. But it should benefit from Raytheon's constant experience with Patriots battle use, especially in Saudi which is constantly pounded by Houthis with ballistic missiles.

Lol. Whenever houthis pound saudis with BMs, saudis get pounded. Patriot has failed repeatedly to intercept even a fraction of the hits.