Russia Ukraine War 2022

Who will win this war?.


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Akim

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Why the hell on earth US would waste their infantries for a proxy war!! The last time they did--- they ended up with.... lemme guess... Vietnam-- about 60k KIA ..... naah,... Afgan war-- 2.5k.. Syria---- some 100 or less..... Ukraine - 0 with full involvement .... If you are intelligent enough, which I fear you are miles away from that thing( based on your self validating posts), could have'd figure out the algo by self... :crying: :crying: long ago.
They are happy with dumping their weapons( which they got plenty) to cannon fodder expandable proxy... in this case- it's YOU, why would they set foot on a ground where couple of active US servicemen death can lead to public mood swing against democrats toward republicans!!!!
and for India, we play above your limit of understanding, we would rather play both and ALL- russia for its armament , US for it's counter Armament as F18, France for it's engine... UK and EU for Cheap IT service ...... Israel as a tech partner, Japan as a old civilizational friend, Middle east for construction support and oil, Africa for our long standing humanitarian aid and reconstruction effort... Australia for our trade ally... and rest google your self....
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER FIND ANY US DIVISION THERE, as they have already trigger fingers as YOU deployed in field...
So, if you disappear like the rest , US at 1000 miles wont even notice or care..:facepalm: or bother.
What does "for Russia" have to do with it? India plays for India. And this rule is true for any country. The Indian Prime Minister spoke about this publicly and a few crazy people on the forum will not change the course.
I talked about the fact that the economic power of your state is only secondary in a nuclear war.
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars The As India abstains from UN vote that condemns Russia's annexation of Ukrainian regions, some liberal Indians who love USA are saying "Indian foreign policy maker are doing big mistake by going side of Putin 😬. But these idiots don't know USA always supported Pakistan.

Fd80fu_UoAItiuF.jpeg
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars The 10 plane loads of 122 mm 155 mm artillery shells 75,000 manufactured in Pakistan were delivered to Kiev from Rawalpindi by a British military plane that traveled via Oman, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Romania.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Ya'll Nibbiars The 10 plane loads of 122 mm 155 mm artillery shells 75,000 manufactured in Pakistan were delivered to Kiev from Rawalpindi by a British military plane that traveled via Oman, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Romania.
Who is paying for this stuff? Muricans? Or Ukraine? Anyhow, the Pakis might simply be using that money to produce new munitions and then put them in Pakistan's war wastage reserves while sending its older munitions from existing war wastage reserves to Ukraine. Basically, Pakistanis are getting a free extension on their war wastage reserves.
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars when was the Ukranian were the principles when pakistan illegally occupied Indian land during the Karg war?. And where were you when pakistan attacked India multiple times since then?.I will tell you what ukraine was doing. ukraine kept supplying weapons to pakistan which killed Indians. And ukraine also out supported the sanctions on India.
 

Trial By Fire

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What past successes?

Except for WW2 where did the West actually won any war against a near peer adversary?

The US went against North Korea and Vietnam, and despite wrecking havoc on those lands with their indiscriminate use of force, they lost badly in both instances. We all know how they beat Iraq by collective use of force.

Those tactics wont work against Russia, which has way too much WMD to be ever be truly threatened, or China, which has way too much modern weapon system to create enough deterrence for any kind of direct intervention, or India, which does not only have a modern armed force but a true professional one with high degree of training.

There's a reason why NaaTO can't put boots on ground in Ukraine. They know rhe consequence can be devastating.
I didn't say past military successes. I wrote "magic word" their way to victory. What I meant was, the situation today has become more and more similar to the Cold War. And apparently The Great Satan thinks they can achieve victory through the same old proxy wars, sabotage and creating new fronts and fifth columns in countries.

Unfortunately for them, people in "shithole" countries are now more aware of their malicious nature and manipulation, so this time they actually are alone. No longer are they considered the "great defenders of freedom and democracy" no matter how much propaganda they might do.
 

Trial By Fire

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I take a lot of relish in mocking and insulting the West for their retardation, however I can't help but feel a little sorry for what their citizens are about to go through.

There were questions in Washington as to whether European resolve would hold up through the winter, as well as unconfirmed reports that Berlin and Moscow were even holding secret talks to reopen Nord Stream 1 and begin the transfer of gas through Nord Stream 2.

Now Germany’s fate is sealed – as is most of the continent’s. There is no longer an off ramp, and Europeans are now prisoners of NATO committed to their own self-destruction.

Slovakia is already requesting billions of euros in support. How long until every other member of the block is asking for the same?

Prior to the Nord Stream attacks, there was at least a faint possibility that sanity would prevail and Russian energy imports could resume. Now the extent of the damage means they are unlikely to carry any gas to Europe this winter even if there was political will to bring them online.

What can we expect from this:

European banks are already stress-testing how they can cope with power shortages and are trying to line up generators so that ATMs and online banking don’t go dark.

Mobile phones could stop functioning this winter if power cuts or rationing knock out parts of the mobile networks.

Science shutdown as institutes that operate energy-hungry supercomputers, accelerators, and laser beamlines will shutter.

Hundreds of thousands of excess deaths.

And yet Europe continues to double down, proposing a new round of Russian sanctions on Wednesday. They include tighter trade restrictions, more individual blacklistings, and an oil price cap for third countries. Hungary, though, says it won’t go along with any energy sanctions, and the EU needs unanimity to impose sanctions.

Poland and three Baltic countries are upset the proposed sanctions don’t go further.

Speaking of Poland, it’s coming up in the world. The Baltic Pipeline that opened Tuesday will bring gas from Norway to Poland via Denmark, but has a capacity of only 10 billion cubic meters per year. The Nord Stream systems could carry up to 110 cubic meter per year.

The US Department of State yesterday announced $288.6 million in military aid for Poland, making it “one of the largest recipients of foreign military assistance outside of Ukraine.” If the Polish Navy and special forces really were behind the pipeline attacks (with support from the US), maybe it’s a reward for a job well done.

If the 2008 financial crisis was the beginning of the end of the era of European social democracy, what’s going to happen now with Great Depression conditions and people freezing to death?

Center-right parties are already being shown the exit, and far-right nationalists are ascending.

Both the Sweden Democrats and the Brothers of Italy were victorious this month. While they both remain anti-immigrant and as nationalist as one can be within the confines of the EU, they also both renounced their former NATO-skeptic positions in the run up to elections. Brussels would be lucky if that’s the extent of the backlash to its Russia policy.

It’s hard to believe that’ll be the case. If voting is still the preferred method to select leaders once this crisis picks up steam, what happens if anti-EU parties come to power across the bloc and in power centers like Berlin?

Protests were already erupting in Germany and elsewhere against the closure of the pipelines before they were attacked. Germany is rushing out a 200 billion euro package to help protect businesses and households, but it’s unlikely to anything more than ease the pain.


The anti-EU party Alternative for Germany (AfD) is already rising in the polls as it attacks the sanctions policy against Russia.

“They are saying that corrupt lawmakers are ignoring the needs of the people,” Wolfgang Schroeder, a political science professor at the University of Kassel, told DW. “They’re arguing that elites in Moscow aren’t the victims of these sanctions policies, but the German people are.”

According to DW, that message is resonating:

According to figures published by research firm INSA, national support for Scholz’s party has fallen from 25.7% in last year’s federal election to 18% on Monday, the FDP has been reduced by half to 7% and even the Green Party is now experiencing a backlash against their plans to mitigate the gas shortage.

The AfD, in the same time frame, has risen in the national polls from 10% to 15%, one of its highest levels ever.

In France, while President Emmanuel Macron managed to win re-election earlier this year, the major takeaway from the contest was the rise of the anti-EU right, which is now the second largest party in Parliament. Macron is already facing a 60 percent disapproval rating.

It was said before and it is worth repeating: The phenomenon of the centrist moderates being worthless has permeated through the minds of civilians all across the world. They have seen their lives get worse and worse.

Naturally, they want change, and for that, now they'll either have to go to the far-left or far-right.

Meanwhile, as there’s no more off-ramp incentive for Europe, there’s now no reason for Brussels not to “fight to the last Ukrainian.” Hawks in Washington DC are rejoicing, as are energy companies and traders, who are making a killing on exporting LNG to Europe with some recording record profits.

Problem is, now the US is facing higher prices itself. Gas prices in the U.S. are three times higher now than they were a decade ago and up 95 percent on the futures market for November 2022 to March 2023.

While the US will benefit in some ways now, the long term might not be so great.

Even if some European industry moves to the US, it will be a short-term victory. Some might assume that this might provide an opportunity for other Western countries. Many think that, for example, America might be able to “reshore” European manufacturing. This is unlikely to be the case.

If European industry crumbles, Europe once again becomes an economic black hole — as it did in the 1930s. Trade will dry up and its key trade partners will feel the burn. In short, if America tries to ship European manufacturing to its shores, it will soon find that there is no one to buy the products.

Yet there is one key difference between the world of the 1920s and 1930s and today. Back in the interwar period, there was no real rival economic bloc to the West. Russia was a small player, China was an agricultural economy, and what we now call the “developing economies” (Brazil, India, South Africa etc.) were anything but developing. That is no longer the case.

If it wasn’t abundantly clear already, the pipeline destruction in the Baltic Sea makes it clear the battlefield is no longer confined to Ukraine. Moscow said it recently foiled an attack on one of its pipelines to Turkey, claiming:

"A Ukrainian agent tried to sabotage infrastructure in Russia involved in exporting energy to Turkey and Europe, Russia’s domestic security service, the FSB, reported."

That would mean it’s the Turkstream pipeline, which carries gas from Russia to Turkey and then onto Bosnia, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, North Macedonia, Romania, and Serbia.

Turkey, Bulgaria, Hungary, and Serbia are all countries who have not swallowed the NATO line on Russia hook, line, and sinker.

Would the US/NATO/Ukraine go after other pipelines like Turkstream if Turkey, Hungary, and Serbia continue to play nice with Russia?

And if the Nord Stream attacks mean pipelines are now fair game, well, things could get very interesting.

A map of Europe's natural gas pipelines:

1664597044843.png


Europe has pipelines, they have communication cables like the internet. They have just power lines running on the seabed. All of this is vulnerable and their societies are very dependent on it. And it’s very, very difficult to monitor what’s going on and to prevent a case of sabotage. What happens if Russia pays them back in kind?

All in all, this isn't even a Cold War situation. This is more of elite gangsterism. Gangster wars are waged to remove competitors. In gangster wars you issue an obscure warning, then you smash the windows or burn the place down.

Gangster war is what you wage when you already are the boss and won’t let any outsider muscle in on your territory. For the dons in Washington DC, the territory can be just about everywhere.
 

Jimih

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I take a lot of relish in mocking and insulting the West for their retardation, however I can't help but feel a little sorry for what their citizens are about to go through.

There were questions in Washington as to whether European resolve would hold up through the winter, as well as unconfirmed reports that Berlin and Moscow were even holding secret talks to reopen Nord Stream 1 and begin the transfer of gas through Nord Stream 2.

Now Germany’s fate is sealed – as is most of the continent’s. There is no longer an off ramp, and Europeans are now prisoners of NATO committed to their own self-destruction.

Slovakia is already requesting billions of euros in support. How long until every other member of the block is asking for the same?

Prior to the Nord Stream attacks, there was at least a faint possibility that sanity would prevail and Russian energy imports could resume. Now the extent of the damage means they are unlikely to carry any gas to Europe this winter even if there was political will to bring them online.

What can we expect from this:

European banks are already stress-testing how they can cope with power shortages and are trying to line up generators so that ATMs and online banking don’t go dark.

Mobile phones could stop functioning this winter if power cuts or rationing knock out parts of the mobile networks.

Science shutdown as institutes that operate energy-hungry supercomputers, accelerators, and laser beamlines will shutter.

Hundreds of thousands of excess deaths.

And yet Europe continues to double down, proposing a new round of Russian sanctions on Wednesday. They include tighter trade restrictions, more individual blacklistings, and an oil price cap for third countries. Hungary, though, says it won’t go along with any energy sanctions, and the EU needs unanimity to impose sanctions.

Poland and three Baltic countries are upset the proposed sanctions don’t go further.

Speaking of Poland, it’s coming up in the world. The Baltic Pipeline that opened Tuesday will bring gas from Norway to Poland via Denmark, but has a capacity of only 10 billion cubic meters per year. The Nord Stream systems could carry up to 110 cubic meter per year.

The US Department of State yesterday announced $288.6 million in military aid for Poland, making it “one of the largest recipients of foreign military assistance outside of Ukraine.” If the Polish Navy and special forces really were behind the pipeline attacks (with support from the US), maybe it’s a reward for a job well done.

If the 2008 financial crisis was the beginning of the end of the era of European social democracy, what’s going to happen now with Great Depression conditions and people freezing to death?

Center-right parties are already being shown the exit, and far-right nationalists are ascending.

Both the Sweden Democrats and the Brothers of Italy were victorious this month. While they both remain anti-immigrant and as nationalist as one can be within the confines of the EU, they also both renounced their former NATO-skeptic positions in the run up to elections. Brussels would be lucky if that’s the extent of the backlash to its Russia policy.

It’s hard to believe that’ll be the case. If voting is still the preferred method to select leaders once this crisis picks up steam, what happens if anti-EU parties come to power across the bloc and in power centers like Berlin?

Protests were already erupting in Germany and elsewhere against the closure of the pipelines before they were attacked. Germany is rushing out a 200 billion euro package to help protect businesses and households, but it’s unlikely to anything more than ease the pain.


The anti-EU party Alternative for Germany (AfD) is already rising in the polls as it attacks the sanctions policy against Russia.

“They are saying that corrupt lawmakers are ignoring the needs of the people,” Wolfgang Schroeder, a political science professor at the University of Kassel, told DW. “They’re arguing that elites in Moscow aren’t the victims of these sanctions policies, but the German people are.”

According to DW, that message is resonating:

According to figures published by research firm INSA, national support for Scholz’s party has fallen from 25.7% in last year’s federal election to 18% on Monday, the FDP has been reduced by half to 7% and even the Green Party is now experiencing a backlash against their plans to mitigate the gas shortage.

The AfD, in the same time frame, has risen in the national polls from 10% to 15%, one of its highest levels ever.

In France, while President Emmanuel Macron managed to win re-election earlier this year, the major takeaway from the contest was the rise of the anti-EU right, which is now the second largest party in Parliament. Macron is already facing a 60 percent disapproval rating.

It was said before and it is worth repeating: The phenomenon of the centrist moderates being worthless has permeated through the minds of civilians all across the world. They have seen their lives get worse and worse.

Naturally, they want change, and for that, now they'll either have to go to the far-left or far-right.

Meanwhile, as there’s no more off-ramp incentive for Europe, there’s now no reason for Brussels not to “fight to the last Ukrainian.” Hawks in Washington DC are rejoicing, as are energy companies and traders, who are making a killing on exporting LNG to Europe with some recording record profits.

Problem is, now the US is facing higher prices itself. Gas prices in the U.S. are three times higher now than they were a decade ago and up 95 percent on the futures market for November 2022 to March 2023.

While the US will benefit in some ways now, the long term might not be so great.

Even if some European industry moves to the US, it will be a short-term victory. Some might assume that this might provide an opportunity for other Western countries. Many think that, for example, America might be able to “reshore” European manufacturing. This is unlikely to be the case.

If European industry crumbles, Europe once again becomes an economic black hole — as it did in the 1930s. Trade will dry up and its key trade partners will feel the burn. In short, if America tries to ship European manufacturing to its shores, it will soon find that there is no one to buy the products.

Yet there is one key difference between the world of the 1920s and 1930s and today. Back in the interwar period, there was no real rival economic bloc to the West. Russia was a small player, China was an agricultural economy, and what we now call the “developing economies” (Brazil, India, South Africa etc.) were anything but developing. That is no longer the case.

If it wasn’t abundantly clear already, the pipeline destruction in the Baltic Sea makes it clear the battlefield is no longer confined to Ukraine. Moscow said it recently foiled an attack on one of its pipelines to Turkey, claiming:

"A Ukrainian agent tried to sabotage infrastructure in Russia involved in exporting energy to Turkey and Europe, Russia’s domestic security service, the FSB, reported."

That would mean it’s the Turkstream pipeline, which carries gas from Russia to Turkey and then onto Bosnia, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, North Macedonia, Romania, and Serbia.

Turkey, Bulgaria, Hungary, and Serbia are all countries who have not swallowed the NATO line on Russia hook, line, and sinker.

Would the US/NATO/Ukraine go after other pipelines like Turkstream if Turkey, Hungary, and Serbia continue to play nice with Russia?

And if the Nord Stream attacks mean pipelines are now fair game, well, things could get very interesting.

A map of Europe's natural gas pipelines:

View attachment 173810

Europe has pipelines, they have communication cables like the internet. They have just power lines running on the seabed. All of this is vulnerable and their societies are very dependent on it. And it’s very, very difficult to monitor what’s going on and to prevent a case of sabotage. What happens if Russia pays them back in kind?

All in all, this isn't even a Cold War situation. This is more of elite gangsterism. Gangster wars are waged to remove competitors. In gangster wars you issue an obscure warning, then you smash the windows or burn the place down.

Gangster war is what you wage when you already are the boss and won’t let any outsider muscle in on your territory. For the dons in Washington DC, the territory can be just about everywhere.
So you are BACK !!
 

JBH22

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Congratulations Zelensky. Lost 15% of the territory that too the most resource rich areas. To add insult to injury they still won't admit the country in NATO.
EUROPE gas dependence on Russia is done forever, the pipelines are blown. So now EU will have its promised land after pesky Russians are "isolated".
 

Master Chief

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Russian soldiers killed on the way out of Lyman.. But, the situation in Lyman is hazy.. With Russian sources, talking about reinforcements strengthening the Lyman Kreminna road, while pro Ukranian sources saying Ukraine is already fighting on the outskirts of Kreminna

 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars The The West still thinks of India as a colony and so the behaviour perplexes them. And Maybe start accepting the concept that Indians can think for themselves and serve the interests of India. Then it will all make sense.
 

Akim

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Typhoon-VDV" is already at the front.
Congratulations Zelensky. Lost 15% of the territory that too the most resource rich areas. To add insult to injury they still won't admit the country in NATO.
EUROPE gas dependence on Russia is done forever, the pipelines are blown. So now EU will have its promised land after pesky Russians are "isolated".
What does it change? War will not change. This is the justification for Russian mobilization "to protect new lands." I'm even glad it's official. Now we can return the Crimea without any reservations. We just need more weapons.
 

1971ftw

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lymen is on borrowed time but i honestly thought it would fall by the time I woke up today, seeing the Ukrainian claims

Gg Russia
 

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