Russia Ukraine War 2022

Who will win this war?.


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Blademaster

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The Tochka-U is a tactical missile with a maximum range of some 120 kilometer. It is typically fired from a transporter, erector, launcher vehicle (TEL) with little need of preparations.

The TEL vehicle for the Tochka is a six wheeled BAZ 5921 /5922. These are amphibious floating hull chassis. The picture below shows a BAZ TEL in parade mode with a Tochka missile slightly erected. In the normal transport mode the missile lies horizontally under a protective roof.

View attachment 150073

There were several claims of such vehicles being seen in Belarus or with Russian forces in Ukraine. But not every six wheeled BAZ vehicle can be said to be a Tochka missile TEL or Tochka transporter. There are various look alike variants of the vehicle with radar or communication equipment or simply used as transporters or ferries for all kind of goods.

View attachment 150074

The Tochka missile, below in a firing position, consists of a rocket engine, four fins and grids to direct its course, a solid fuel compartment and a warhead at its front. A complete missile weighs about 2,000 kilogram.

View attachment 150075

There are various warhead types available which weigh about 500 kilogram each.

The warhead which was used in Kramatorsk is a fragmentation one with 20 sub-munitions (gray) each with some 7.5 kilogram of explosives enclosed in a metal hull.

View attachment 150077

Over the target area these sub-munitions get expelled and explode while still in the air and each one creates some 800 fragments. The warhead thus leaves no hole in the ground but expels a huge number of deadly metal fragments at high speed over a relative large area.

The Tochka missiles are not very precise. They have a circular error probability (CEP) of some 150 meters. They are so called area weapons to be used against concentrations of infantry or unarmored vehicles.

After being fired the rocket engine propels the warhead towards is destination. Shortly before the impact the warhead separates from the booster section and continues its path while the rocket engine shuts down.

Having lost its thrust and aerodynamic tip the relative heavy booster section will then tumble to the ground. If everything works as designed the booster section always falls short of the warhead section.

Which brings us to the scene in Kramatorsk. Several pictures from the scene show the booster section of the missile.

View attachment 150078

View attachment 150079

View attachment 150080

The place where it landed was geo-located as being near a parking space some 60 meter west-southwest of the railway station. Here is the Google maps view of the railway station area. The warhead explosions happened on the east side of the station over the departure platform.

The location of the booster debris and where the explosion happened allows one to point out the trajectory from where the missile was fired. I have checked the locations depicted below and found them to be correct.

North is to the top. The station is encircled and the point is where the booster section landed. The arrow shows the trajectory the missile must have taken.

View attachment 150081

Oh, the map is annotated in Russian and you don't trust Russian sources? Well, here is the New York Times posting a similar map.

View attachment 150083

Here is map from Liveuamap depicting the current front lines in Ukraine. Kramatorsk is marked in yellow.

View attachment 150085

Note that there are no Russian or Russia-aligned forces west-southwest of Kramatorsk within the 120 km maximum range of a Tochka missile. The missile must have been fired by Ukrainian forces.

Unsurprisingly the Russian military has come to the same conclusion:

"An analysis of the engagement radius of the warhead, as well as the characteristic position of Tochka-U missile's tail section, clearly confirm that it was launched from a south-western direction away from Kramatorsk.

According to intelligence reports, one of the divisions of the 19th Missile Brigade armed with Tochka-U missile systems at the time of the strike on Kramatorsk was located near Dobropol'e in Donetsk Region, 45 km south-west of Kramatorsk.

This area is still under the full control of the Ukrainian military grouping troops in Donbass."

The publicly available evidence shows that the Ukrainian military must have fired the missile that killed some 50 Ukrainian civilians in Kramatorsk.

The only purpose of the attack I can think of was to create propaganda that, when distributed as 'Russian attack' through 'western' media, will create more military support for Ukraine.

Everyone who urges to give more arms to the Ukraine or who eggs it on to continue this war is guilty of creating impetus for more incidents like the one seen in Kramatorsk.
Great analysis!!
 

Blademaster

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What we have offered to the Russians Currently or

after this war

When there Economy Will be in Crunch

In comparison to the massive Chinese Economy

What Will be the Rational Answer To your question

India is non Aligned country as per its policy

Russian First Question Will be What Will you offer Us in Our Economic war Against West ???

Are you Ally With them or US

We have Entered in Next Cold War
We can tell the Russians that we are buying their oil in rubles.
 

Blademaster

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pakis got these from US for their help in war on terror
How will they be able to target the ships with those harpoons? If NATO elint platforms guides them, that makes NATO elint platforms fair game. The turkish UACVs will not be able to guide the harpoons.
 

WARREN SS

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We can tell the Russians that we are buying their oil in rubles.
Well I am asking long term Alignment

because It is a war for Russia now

I have My doubt that they Accept are Closeness To western countries after this war

It biggest geopolitical Dilemma for India

I Told vishnugupt

I tell you the same

The biggest Diplomatic victory in this crisis is not adding Russians as our Geopolitical Rivals
 

Blademaster

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Well I am asking long term Alignment

because It is a war for Russia now

I have My doubt that they Accept are Closeness To western countries after this war

It biggest geopolitical Dilemma for India

I Told vishnugupt

I tell you the same

The biggest Diplomatic victory in this crisis is not adding Russians as our Geopolitical Rivals
Well Russia cannot afford to lose India either. So I do not think that Russia will press too hard on India.
 

WARREN SS

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We do not rule out the possibility.
They can if a Tanks Can fly

Never the less

We have Numerical Superiority over them

Also, We have 11 Mountain Strike corps Unlike 3 of the Chinese

Maintaining the Supply Lines So far from their bases is Practically impossible for them

They Came prepared in 2020

With over 150,000 troops And 3 brigades of Tanks And 12 Squadrons of Aircraft

But We Matched them

Tank With Tank

Soldier With Soldier

aircraft With Aircrafts

They tried We Fought back They retreated
 

India Super Power

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They can if a Tanks Can fly

Never the less

We have Numerical Superiority over them

Also, We have 11 Mountain Strike corps Unlike 3 of the Chinese

Maintaining the Supply Lines So far from their bases is Practically impossible for them

They Came prepared in 2020

With over 150,000 troops And 3 brigades of Tanks And 12 Squadrons of Aircraft

But We Matched them

Tank With Tank

Soldier With Soldier

aircraft With Aircrafts

They tried We Fought back They retreated
When did they retreat bro
They are still sitting on our land
 

DEV1729

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We do not rule out the possibility.
They tried in 2020 and got killed including their chief commander.Moreover when India was at war against china and Pakistan democratic nations Ukraine,eu and Poland were busy making deals and attending belt and road initiative by CCP Xi dada while chinese were commiting genocide against tibetians and xinxiang.Now Putin has the belt and corpse of innocent ukrainians are on the road financed by Xi dada CCP.

 

WARREN SS

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Automatic Kalashnikov

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They can if a Tanks Can fly

Never the less

We have Numerical Superiority over them

Also, We have 11 Mountain Strike corps Unlike 3 of the Chinese

Maintaining the Supply Lines So far from their bases is Practically impossible for them

They Came prepared in 2020

With over 150,000 troops And 3 brigades of Tanks And 12 Squadrons of Aircraft

But We Matched them

Tank With Tank

Soldier With Soldier

aircraft With Aircrafts

They tried We Fought back They retreated
We have 11 MSC? I thought only the 17 corps was a MSC
 

vishnugupt

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Nazism - where did you see it? Who have I humiliated because of religion, skin color, nationality? You probably don’t even know the characteristics of Nazism, but you repeat like a parrot.
Let's see how you react when the Chinese soldiers come to India.
How would we behave?? we will behave rather by not killing innocent Tibetan. Or by not killing our own people. By not misjudging situation that NATO will come to help. Very certainly by not using our people as a human sheild.

We will handle it more professionally and with all our might. Infact we are handling it well as China is our enemy number 1.

Whole world is suffering because of your Nazi adventure backed by NATO.
 

vishnugupt

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Well I am asking long term Alignment

because It is a war for Russia now

I have My doubt that they Accept are Closeness To western countries after this war

It biggest geopolitical Dilemma for India

I Told vishnugupt

I tell you the same

The biggest Diplomatic victory in this crisis is not adding Russians as our Geopolitical Rivals
I totally understand and agree with your view point regarding India's concern but think about Russian concern after war.

After war, already isolated Russia will appreciate even small help ( by any means) from India. Infact we have done much more then mere help and Russian will understand our position. Lavrov meet with Modi was a signal.

Second, Russia will be dependent on China at some extent after the war but it will not accept to become puppet of China. Russia might help China in other ways to return it's favour.

Russian are not stupid as West portray them.... Russian literally hooked Europe by Gass deals and India, middle East by weapons deals. For China, Russia is first line of defence. Russia got its sweet spot and this situation is not going to change for next 5-10 years.
 

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