Russia Ukraine War 2022

[Varzone]

India has won multiple wars with those "proven dud" Russian weapons. Those "proven dud" weapons is the reason why pakis and chinkis have nightmares.



You should explain superiority of western maal to this guy.
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Chinese technology is unparalleled? they use same soviet era legacy weapons as India. Not only that most of their "unparalleled technology" is 3rd rate copies of old soviet stuff.

I wish we could remind superiority of western maal to the dead pilots and their families who died flying these coffins in the last 20 peacetime years.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Well.. Nazi Azov battalions are part of the Ukranian Armed forces.. But, in case of Russia, their entire elite, Putin and Medvedev, hold Nazi views of eliminating Ukranian statehood and cultural identity..
Who is the bigger Nazi here, then..?

err, there is no such thing as eliminating ukrainian cultural identity from the Russian state. But Ukraine has OFFICIALLY persued erasure of Russian cultural identity amongst its Russian population for the last 8 years.
And Yes, any state that officially incorporates Nazis in the military and government forfeits its right to sovereignty. The precedence for that, is 3rd Reich. This is rules based order, remember ? meaning, precedence matters.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

World War Two? Oh I thought the Russians and Nazis signed a non aggression pact and were working together to divide up Europe. “The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was a non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union” Wikipedia it

That pact allowed the Russians to take parts of Poland, Romania, Finland and the Baltic states. That is BIG beneficiary of Nazi Germany.

Wasn’t until mid ‘41 that Nazis invaded Russia that Russians were FORCED to fight Nazis. (Wikipedia says Russian broke the pact first by invading a part of Romania that was for the Nazis).

Russian elite threw masses of their “cheap” surplus peasants against the Nazis. Russia’s Nazi “friends” caught the Russians unprepared.

Russians were hiding in Moscow buddy buddy with the NAZIs while others were fighting for what 22 months? Almost 2 years of war, Russia was on the other side. This “war” has only been a bit over a month. Don’t try to play the hero of WW2.

Indians might want to be concerned about those Russian tanks. That Arjun might be looking pretty sweet in the future.

1. Germany attacked USSR because the german calculation was, USSR is rapidly industrialising and replacing their losses from winter war ( Finland) & Stalin's officer purges, while the peace agreement between the two hated enemies ( nazis and communists were each other's enemy #1 in germany, poland and every nation they went head-on in elections) was to buy time. They calculated, if they dont attack Russia now, they will never be able to and not be able to withstand THEIR attack.
This is documented from captured German documents & testimonials of their captured high ranking military

2. Russia did the bulk of the fighting and killing the Nazis. 90% of Nazi soldiers died at the Russian hands, 90% of russian equipment by tonnage was destroyed by Russians. So they were, in effect, the main destroyers of the Nazis. USA, UK, etc had the role of Australia during 2nd gulf war : purely supporting cast, with minimal impact in europe sector

 

[GaudaNaresh]

We do not consider them Nazis. Russian propaganda made them Nazis back in 2014, because they are fighting against the “Russian World”. @Shashank Nayak is right - it is better to look for fashio in the Kremlin.

that makes you a nazi supporter. Those who officially adopt Nazi symbols and Nazi ideology and use Nazi tactics on the civilians, are Nazis. Thats what makes Azov Nazis. Before war happened, even your yankee masters' media called the Azov battalion Nazis. This we have ample proof of.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

What is the deal with the Nazi history accusations for Ukraine? Methinks WW2 era there were so many international solidarities based on local considerations, one shouldn’t be paintbrushing entire nation’s heroes as Nazi due to Axis alignment. The Indian national narrative regarding WW2 is largely pro Axis and anti British.

As I understand the Ukrainians have a history with Russians similar to Irish with English, ie ethnically close but very nasty as well. If they were under Russian boot at the time and saw Nazis as liberators, just leave it at that without resorting to extrapolating further.

except the nazi collaborators of Ukraine, such as bandera, genocided the jews and roma there and there are mass graves in Ukraine to prove that......
thats not SC Bose type of 'enemy of my enemy is my friend, yay nazis liberated us so they are good', thats called full-on genocidal Nazi ideology adoption and collaboration.
Making them...Nazis.

 

[HitmanBlood]

Yup, being in the US camp in reality is exactly like how we were around independence, slightly earlier. India would exist as a separate entity but our policy would need the approval of the US. We won't have an independent foreign policy. We'd have to fight their wars, like how our people were used in WW2. We'd have to sell our resources, probably a lot cheaper.

Why did we gain independence only to become a US slave.

And if people think all these are just paranoia. Look at their existing vassals, even countries with their white blue eye brothers are their thralls.

They're essentially a dictatorship larping as a democracy, gaslighting everyone with their fake moral righteousness.

India is a large country with a stong economy. Our current leadership is stong and capable to deal with western pressure. IMO current gov will not abandon their nutral policy.

Thinking that some outside power will come and give us money and help is copium for failed states like Pakistan. Their demoralised population on PDF is always seeking outside help for everything.


The reality of our relationship with USA

Every country exists for their own interest. US is no different. Going in US camp at this point will result into massive deindustrialization of India because one the biggest problem US has with India is import tariffs. Our agricultural will also be effected as Americans have a problem with Indian farm subsidies and food dumping restrictions. They have just recently raised issues against domestic RuPay card and UPI because it hurts their Visa and MasterCard. Just 3 years ago Trump terminated GSP status for India which costed Indian economy billions. And that was a friendly gov.

Another area where US has problems with India is military tech and nuclear tech. They have problems with our ICBMs, air defence and anti-sat programs.

America doesn't respect Indian territorial water claims in Indian ocean and regularly violates it. In their maps J&K is in Pakistan and Arunachal is in China. Khalistan movement is operating from western countries in their full knowledge. Even after repeated calls by India they haven't done anything to stop it.

US also has an old problem agaist Hinduism and Indian nationalism. They are funding churches in maoist regions and north east to convert local population and even support armed insurgencies. Their state controlled media regularly airs anti-India and anti-Hindu propaganda. Their billionaires like Soros have openly stated to remove Modi from power. Current US administration has an on record state policy of "Subnational Diplomacy" with India.



This is the reality of our relationship with America. But some posters here think that if we jump into American camp they will help us economically and give us sensitive technology to make India a superpower.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

US wants India to cut defence buying from Russia; Congressman says 'gruesomely...'

US Congressman Joe Wilson asked what US can possibly do so that Indian leaders reject Putin and align with the US in the defence sector.

www.hindustantimes.com

US wants India to cut defence buying from Russia

India will cut defence buying from Russia, once Indian indegenous platforms are ready. T
The reason Indian buys Russian and French, over American, is because France and Russia offers complete sovereign control of the weapons platforms, down to even teaching most of the maintanance craft of the equipment ( unless they are truely massive infrastructure costs, such as re-fitting a ship or a sub).

USA does not allow even its own NATO allies like Canada or UK to do basic maintanance on American products - even in CAF bases, there is a contingent of american engineering corps, who's job is to maintain the superhornet.
This is the singular feature - strategic vassalhood- is why America has not been able to break into the Indian market for capital military assets - when India needs cheap and bulk, they go Russian, when they need high end latest tech, they bend over and pay 150% more for French maal ( compared to amreeki maal). Because both France and Russia offers the one thing USA does not- strategic independence of military hardware.

 

[couchPotato]

I wish we could remind superiority of western maal to the dead pilots and their families who died flying these coffins in the last 20 peacetime years.

The domestic ware is also pretty safe to fly. Don't want to jinx, but the LCA has never crashed.

 

[couchPotato]

India will cut defence buying from Russia, once Indian indegenous platforms are ready. T
The reason Indian buys Russian and French, over American, is because France and Russia offers complete sovereign control of the weapons platforms, down to even teaching most of the maintanance craft of the equipment ( unless they are truely massive infrastructure costs, such as re-fitting a ship or a sub).

USA does not allow even its own NATO allies like Canada or UK to do basic maintanance on American products - even in CAF bases, there is a contingent of american engineering corps, who's job is to maintain the superhornet.
This is the singular feature - strategic vassalhood- is why America has not been able to break into the Indian market for capital military assets - when India needs cheap and bulk, they go Russian, when they need high end latest tech, they bend over and pay 150% more for French maal ( compared to amreeki maal). Because both France and Russia offers the one thing USA does not- strategic independence of military hardware.

Is it the same situation for the Apaches, the Poseidons and the C17s that India operates?

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Is it the same situation for the Apaches, the Poseidons and the C17s that India operates?

it is always one of two scenarios - either you have US military engineering corps stationed in your bases to do maintanance, or you ship it to the US maintanance facilities overseas

 

[GaudaNaresh]

@couchPotato arrey bhai, mujhpe naraaz kyoon ?

 

[couchPotato]

I will tell you. The Red Army of the old days fore were absolute masters of combined arms manuever. They scared the shit out of everyone. The Red Army would steamroll over everyone. Russian Army is just a shell of the Red Army. I think Gorbachev was the worst General Secretary that Russia could ask for. He allowed the drunkard Boris Yeltsin to climb to power and Boris just shat all over Russia and her economy and military.

Yup Gorbachev and Yeltsin are the dumbasses that let the USSR collapse. The west needs a counterweight as checks and balances against their bullshit warmongering and regime changing spree.

 

[couchPotato]

@couchPotato arrey bhai, mujhpe naraaz kyoon ?

I'm not angry at you, but our situation with those weapon systems.

 

[Varzone]

Yup Gorbachev and Yeltsin are the dumbasses that let the USSR collapse. The west needs a counterweight as checks and balances against their bullshit warmongering and regime changing spree.

They were victims of the circumstances. We like to simplify it as a fault of just a few individuals but it was a systemic collapse.

 

[couchPotato]

@GaudaNaresh @Blademaster @HitmanBlood

Looks like we -might- get F/A-18s from the US for the navy. Kinda shitty given how the US deals with weapons 'sales' (rentals)

US F-18 fighters to be tested for INS Vikrant at Goa on May 21

US F-18 and French Rafale-M carrier capable fighters in consideration for India’s second aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, which will be commissioned on August 15, 2022 by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[GaudaNaresh]

I'm not angry at you, but our situation with those weapon systems.

This is the reason why India has never bought any capital assets ( meaning ship/subs of the line, fighter/bomber jets, tanks or APCs) from USA. What we buy from them are ALL support units - like Apache or Poseidon, these are force multiplier units that make your life easier but in full frontal war, are not decisive.

If INS buys the superhornet for vikrant ( unlikely but is possible), it will be the first such purchase in history of RoI.

 

[Varzone]

@GaudaNaresh @Blademaster @HitmanBlood

Looks like we -might- get F/A-18s from the US for the navy. Kinda shitty given how the US deals with weapons 'sales' (rentals)

US F-18 fighters to be tested for INS Vikrant at Goa on May 21

US F-18 and French Rafale-M carrier capable fighters in consideration for India’s second aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, which will be commissioned on August 15, 2022 by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

www.hindustantimes.com

I like to think that leasing F-18s would be best and then replace them with Tejas Mk2 and I think that's the approach GOI took with big ticket purchases like drones and naval helos recently...

 

[HitmanBlood]

@GaudaNaresh @Blademaster @HitmanBlood

Looks like we -might- get F/A-18s from the US for the navy. Kinda shitty given how the US deals with weapons 'sales' (rentals)

US F-18 fighters to be tested for INS Vikrant at Goa on May 21

US F-18 and French Rafale-M carrier capable fighters in consideration for India’s second aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, which will be commissioned on August 15, 2022 by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

www.hindustantimes.com

Rafale M is already tested. Lets see how things goes down. After Ukraine war a lot has changed.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

@GaudaNaresh @Blademaster @HitmanBlood

Looks like we -might- get F/A-18s from the US for the navy. Kinda shitty given how the US deals with weapons 'sales' (rentals)

US F-18 fighters to be tested for INS Vikrant at Goa on May 21

US F-18 and French Rafale-M carrier capable fighters in consideration for India’s second aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, which will be commissioned on August 15, 2022 by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

www.hindustantimes.com

yes. It is still a distant second to Rafale-M, predominantly due to commonality with regular Rafale and getting us closer to having a Rafale production line in India, which the French have offered but we cannot afford ( too expensive). Rafale-M's main selling point is, shared commonality with the Rafale-EH, along with getting closer to the magic '100 Rafales to justify production line in India' number.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

I like to think that leasing F-18s would be best and then replace them with Tejas Mk2 and I think that's the approach GOI took with big ticket purchases like drones and naval helos recently...

Tejas Mk-2 will never be a mainstay of Navy fighter. it will be acquired by the navy in small numbers, simply to keep the active aircraft number as high as possible, since India will have a tiny naval fighter wing ( owing to 2, max 3 medium-small sized carriers). Its main role will be to fill in the gaps when the Mig-29 KUB or Rafale-M or SH goes for maintanance. This is because the navy has made it clear that it will NOT make a single engine jet the mainstay of their naval wing, which no country on the planet has done since ww2