Rajputs in medieval age - battles and discussions

[pmaitra]

Even many Bollywood stars are prostitutes but calling Bollywood is pimp industry and all heroins are prostitutes is politically wrong.

There are always shortcoming in every era&in every society,As a Bengali you must know BD girls are sold like a toys in India every now and then many girls captured in my small south city(don't know how they are surviving here very few people know Hindi forget Bengali) and this business/Rapes/Murders/Theft/Cheating increasing every year,what we can do nothing.So you want to blame 'Democracy/Capitalism/Socialism' for that!! NO.

Yes, many girls are forced into prostitution. I agree. My point is, Devdasis were not forced into prostitution, but were sexually exploited. The common denominator here is sexual exploitation.

A majority of Bollywood stars are not prostitutes. Promiscuous, probably.

 

[asingh10]

This sentence makes no sense, but perhaps, it was not meant to make any sense, but to deflect a very uncomfortable truth.

Not really, I've no issues denouncing Devdasi as an evil system but my observation is that people who still howl about Devdasi, seem to overlook far worse sexual exploitation that is widespread today and even has a stamp of legitimacy. How many of these people have ever raised concern over old Arab pedos visiting Hyderabad for 1 night marriages ? Practice of Muttah among Shias ? Sexual exploitation in Churches and Madrassas ? Bollywood starlets may not be prostitutes but casting couch and exploitation of girls is a reality there. Same in porn industry.

 

[asingh10]

Even many Bollywood stars are prostitutes but calling Bollywood is pimp industry and all heroins are prostitutes is politically wrong.

There are always shortcoming in every era&in every society,As a Bengali you must know BD girls are sold like a toys in India every now and then many girls captured in my small south city(don't know how they are surviving here very few people know Hindi forget Bengali) and this business/Rapes/Murders/Theft/Cheating increasing every year,what we can do nothing.So you want to blame 'Democracy/Capitalism/Socialism' for that!! NO.

A total of 1 lakh girls from Nepal, North East and East India are trafficked into sex trade every year.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

I have seen the "pile of BS," if I may use your word, and it is those unsuccessful attempts to invalidate AIT/AMT.

There is no new evidence that refutes it. All presumed references have been countered.

No one has moved over to a milder form. The claim is either AMT happened, or AIT happened, or both. This is called being open to possibilities. This is not the same thing as abandoning AIT and settling for AMT.

Sorry, I had to set the records straight, so that people are not misled.

People in different parts of India will continue to look different, and all this OIT and related theories will keep coming up and go back into the dustbin.

yeah..yeah. That thread is open for everyone to read and make up their mind.

I am sure when the crop of current leftist historians, who have to peddle their agenda, are gone no one will buy any AIT/AMT arguments. It is funny that such theories with name like Aryan Invasion Theory(AIT) are even allowed to exist without any proof of invasion!!

 

[Mad Indian]

yeah..yeah. That thread is open for everyone to read and make up their mind.

I am sure when the crop of current leftist historians, who have to peddle their agenda, are gone no one will buy any AIT/AMT arguments. It is funny that such theories with name like Aryan Invasion Theory(AIT) are even allowed to exist without any proof of invasion!!

Yeah well Marxists are constantly in a state of intellectual masturbation and so it makes sense for them to claim that AIT has not been proven to be false and so it is true. For any sane intellectual mind, claims require proof. But not for Marxist clowns though. Here, their belief system is enough and so we have to disprove their claims. How else do you think they justify a mass murdering barbaric ideology which has consumed 200 million people around the world in forced starvation and death?


Even here, look at their defence of AIT- you have not proven AIT is false and so it is true. Well, I can't disprove flying spaghetti monster either nor can these Marxist clowns. Does it make it real? Morons. But then again, for hypocritical clowns everything would make sense so long they have their head up their ass

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Even here, look at their defence of AIT- you have not proven AIT is false and so it is true. Well, I can't disprove flying spaghetti monster either nor can these Marxist clowns. Does it make it real?

haha. Just corrected your sentence above.

Trust Marxists that there happened a great invasion without any proof of invasion!!

 

[DarthVader]

You asked the question about rajput cavalry, i gave you several examples including purandar where rajputs utterly defeated the Marathas and forced shivaji to sign the treaty,i gave you several other examples as far as central asia ,where rajputs fought.They also defeated Ghauri in 1st battle of tarain.

Secondly Marathas was only interested in chauth so large scale confrontation between them is out of question,shivaji although regarded as shudra himself claimed sisodiya rajput status.

In any case Marathas were guerilla fighters thus inferior against rajputs,if they were united like marathas there would've ruled N India in place of turks,let alone Marathas.

Untill Indians give up there cast identities and start looking things holistically (including history) there would be no progress. Rajputs helped sustain and expand Mughalrule in north and south india...although many stayed independent and some fought against the mughals specially in the earlier period of mughal rule....later peshwas on the other hand didnt mind bending over backwards to achieve subservience under British betraying there own fellow maratha (Holkar)....sikhs who shead a lot of blood for independence....were also among the first ones to cut a deal with british instead of opposing them...what is important is to loose the fragmentation of Indian society and grow a spine.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Untill Indians give up there cast identities and start looking things holistically (including history) there would be no progress. Rajputs helped sustain and expand Mughalrule in north and south india...although many stayed independent and some fought against the mughals specially in the earlier period of mughal rule....later peshwas on the other hand didnt mind bending over backwards to achieve subservience under British betraying there own fellow maratha (Holkar)....sikhs who shead a lot of blood for independence....were also among the first ones to cut a deal with british instead of opposing them...what is important is to loose the fragmentation of Indian society and grow a spine.

Did you just watch the Star Wars!! Btw, introduce yourself in the member's section and welcome aboard.

 

[Mad Indian]

haha. Just corrected your sentence above.

Trust Marxists that there happened a great invasion without any proof of invasion!!

And the sad part is, even those who are not ideologically stunded and otherwise normal like @Razor believe this crap and defend it as if they are defending against blasphemy. That's because many of these people have constructed their identity around this bs theory and would not think twice about what they believe in since it has become a part of their identity now. Much like how porkis try so hard to claim they were descendants of Uzbeks, Turks, Arabs, Persians, and so on except Indians/Hindus as they have been brainwashed into it, even if the genetics prove that 95% of those idiots are force/rape converted Hindus .


@saty please check out the AIT thread and the times of India article on Aryan invasion/migration theory. It shows why AMT/AIT is nothing but intellectual mastrrbation of the Marxist clowns

 

[pmaitra]

yeah..yeah. That thread is open for everyone to read and make up their mind.

I am sure when the crop of current leftist historians, who have to peddle their agenda, are gone no one will buy any AIT/AMT arguments. It is funny that such theories with name like Aryan Invasion Theory(AIT) are even allowed to exist without any proof of invasion!!

That is exactly what I want. People should go into that thread and read.

I know when people lose an argument, they start off with irrelevant gibberish, such as, but not limited to, leftist, Marxist, and what not. Might as well include some more irrelevant stuff, like how to make Chicken Tikka Masala, or how to learn to ride a bicycle. Those would be no more on topic.

 

[pmaitra]

Not really, I've no issues denouncing Devdasi as an evil system but my observation is that people who still howl about Devdasi, seem to overlook far worse sexual exploitation that is widespread today and even has a stamp of legitimacy. How many of these people have ever raised concern over old Arab pedos visiting Hyderabad for 1 night marriages ? Practice of Muttah among Shias ? Sexual exploitation in Churches and Madrassas ? Bollywood starlets may not be prostitutes but casting couch and exploitation of girls is a reality there. Same in porn industry.

Not blaming the entire Devdasi system. People are blaming what is happening behind the solemn veil of the Devdasi system. My original post should have clarified that, but I am clarifying it again.

Casting couch has nothing to do with exploitation, because it is consensual. Does it happen? Yes. Is it exploitation? No.

Muttah marriage is debatable, and I am not taking a stand at this point.

The rest of it is exploitation, so no dispute there.

 

[Bornubus]

To clarify certain things,this thread is not started by me nor i requested a new thread on this topic but in all likelihood @Sakal Gharelu Ustad in his utter frustration and his personal grudge against a community made this thread.

His stereotypical title of the thread and his butthurt posts are the example of it.

Moreover,i proudly claim and take pride in my roots and history (doesn't matter good or bad) of my people unlike a Gharelu (Homely) guy/girl who is so afraid to share his,thus making me to believe a member of typical trader community whose only achievements in history are to buy and selling gharelu stuff and to discuss politics in their 10*10 sized shops unlike a rajput who is serving his nation on loc as we speak.

 

[Bornubus]

Were the Marathas defeated at Purandar due to Rajput Cavalry? A big No. The battle was won not due to Rajput soldiers but due to Mughal artillery which was most powerful artillery in Asia at that time. So your argument stands invalid.
Rajputs especially from Rajputana viz. modern day Rajasthan so as not to malign great rulers like Prithiviraj(Also Maharana Pratap who was an exception) were always interested in maintaining their status and they were the first to castrate before Mughals. An example would be the retaking of kondana fort where the Rajput commander of the fort Udaybhan when met Tanaji Malusare in battle offered him high position in Mughal service, which Tanaji refused outright. This was the self respect of the Marathas who never bent on their knees in front of the Mughals for some petty status and gifts.

You asked a question if rajput were good cavalrymen why didn't they stopped Marathas ?

My purandar reference was not related to Rajput cavalry which led them to win over marathas but as a example of Maratha and rajput confrontation and who emerged victorious in the end.

As for kneeling before mughals,you are wrong again,Marathas were only emerged as a power in 17 th century,Ancestors of Shivaji were loyal servants of Mughals and several Maharastrian kingdoms bowed down before Muslims and offered their daughters to them even before rajput of Rajasthan not other rajput.


Jijabai's (mother of shivaji) was Yadava princess of Devgiri,whose ancestors give their daughter to Ala Ud din Khilji also vijnaynagar kingdom their ruler like devraya did the same when they married their daughter to Bahmani sultan.

 

[Bornubus]

Were the Marathas defeated at Purandar due to Rajput Cavalry? A big No. The battle was won not due to Rajput soldiers but due to Mughal artillery which was most powerful artillery in Asia at that time. So your argument stands invalid.
Rajputs especially from Rajputana viz. modern day Rajasthan so as not to malign great rulers like Prithiviraj(Also Maharana Pratap who was an exception) were always interested in maintaining their status and they were the first to castrate before Mughals. An example would be the retaking of kondana fort where the Rajput commander of the fort Udaybhan when met Tanaji Malusare in battle offered him high position in Mughal service, which Tanaji refused outright. This was the self respect of the Marathas who never bent on their knees in front of the Mughals for some petty status and gifts.

Rajputs were the pioneers in offering the resistance to Muslim invaders,they were always the first line of defense and nobody came close to them,not in history not today.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajput_resistance_to_Muslim_conquests


Rajputs were ruling small kingdoms (not more than few dist. of today) with limited resources, still they resisted mughals who had the resources of rich Doab,Bengal and northern india.


ome British colonial officials were impressed by the military qualities of the Rajputs and their centuries old struggle against Muslim invaders. In his Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan James Tod writes:[6]

“ What nation on earth could have maintained the semblance of civilization, the spirit or the customs of their forefathers, during so many centuries of overwhelming depression, but one of such singular character as the Rajput? ... Rajasthan exhibits the sole example in the history of mankind, of a people withstanding every outrage barbarity could inflict, or human nature sustain, from a foe whose religion commands annihilation; and bent to the earth, yet rising buoyant from the pressure, and making calamity a whetstone to courage .... Not an iota of their religion or customs have they lost .

 

[Bornubus]

28, 1568. In 1571, when he built his new capital city of Fatehpur Sikri, 24 miles west of the old capital of Agra, Akbar erected statues of Jaimal and Patta in front of one of his gates–as much a testament to the merits of his gallant foes as to his great conquest.

 

[Bornubus]

@parijataka, to add to your post, women enjoyed positions of privilege during the Mauryan Era, and promiscuity was not looked down upon, rather, promiscuous women actually enjoyed positions of influence. I have posted a summary of Indika in DFI somewhere, which is the source of what I am stating. You are correct, the restrictions on women, ghunghat, purdah, etc., came from the Arabs, partly via the Persians.

Even before Mauryans during Buddha's time prostitution was a thriving profession,Amprali was mentioned in various Buddhist literature.

Mauryans found prostitution as source of revenue and taxed it instead of banning it.

But Devadasi is a complete different practice,its a sex slavery masquerading in the name of religion for their mafia Fat Brahmans.

 

[pmaitra]

Even before Mauryans during Buddha's time prostitution was a thriving profession,Amprali was mentioned in various Buddhist literature.

Mauryans found prostitution as source of revenue and taxed it instead of banning it.

But Devadasi is a complete different practice,its a sex slavery masquerading in the name of religion for their mafia Fat Brahmans.

I had posted this book review long time back. Have a look: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/book-review-thread.51355/page-3#post-766092

 

[Sameet2]

All I can say in the past we fOOked up and now its gonna be same if we argue much ! BTW whose gonna watch mastani today ?

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

That is exactly what I want. People should go into that thread and read.

I know when people lose an argument, they start off with irrelevant gibberish, such as, but not limited to, leftist, Marxist, and what not. Might as well include some more irrelevant stuff, like how to make Chicken Tikka Masala, or how to learn to ride a bicycle. Those would be no more on topic.

Yes asking for proof of invasion in AIT is chicken tikka masala!!

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

 

[pmaitra]

Yes asking for proof of invasion in AIT is chicken tikka masala!!

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

Nope, but I'll try again.

AIT/AMT happened long loooooong before Karl Marx was born. That is why your bringing in Marx is irrelevant.

Even if Karl Marx were never born, it won't change anything about AIT/AMT.

haha. Just corrected your sentence above.

Trust Marxists that there happened a great invasion without any proof of invasion!!

Next time you open a thread on economics, I will post a recipe of Chicken Tikka Masala, reciprocating your tendency to post irrelevant things. I hope you won't mind then.