Rajputs in medieval age - battles and discussions

Mad Indian

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If you are an AIT debunk-er it is fine with me but why force others to stop believing AIT.
Of course. You should believe in your religion of AIT , no questions asked. Science facts, evidence, logic etc does not matter. Only faith in the AIT matter: rolleyes:

Reg prostitution, sure. We should call it evil because desert monkeys think it is evil. Let's disregard our religion's positive approach to sex. No. We should follow the superior desert monkeys in their hatred of sex
 

asingh10

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Chanakya proposed to regulate prostitution in Arthashastra, but not ban it as such. India seems to have a very old history of legalized prostitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarvadhu

Amrapali was one such Nagarvadhu, given Diksha by Lord Buddha.

Also isn't there a custom in Bengal of taking soil from prostitute's area/brothel for Devi Durga's idol for Durga Puja?
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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You did not get me. Both devadasi and prostitution are an evil practice which needs to be stopped.
Why is it evil?

I see no evil in this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devadasi

The Chola empire encouraged the devadasi system, In Tamil they are known as Devar Adigalar, (Where in Devar means in Tamil as "God" and Adigalar means in Tamil as "Servants", Which is put together into one makes as "God's Servant"). Devadasi are Men and women were dedicated to temple & god's service. They developed the system of music and dance employed during temple festivals.

Inscriptions reveal that the 400 dancers, their gurus and orchestras, were maintained by the Brihadeesvarar temple, Thanjavur, with munificent grants, including the daily disbursement of oil, turmeric, betel leaves and nuts.[9]

Nattuvanars were the male accompanists of the devadasi during her performance. They conducted the music orchestra while the devadasi performed her service. Inscriptions reveal that nattuvanars were used to teach the Chola princess Kuntavai a thousand years ago.[9]

As the Chola empire expanded in wealth and size, they built more temples throughout their country. Soon other emperors started imitating the Chola empire and developed the system.

##############################################

Indians follow and worship the current prostitutes and filth spread through the entire entertainment industry but they have problem with Devadasis. Btw, devadasis were not simply prostitutes.
 

asingh10

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Why is it evil?

I see no evil in this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devadasi

The Chola empire encouraged the devadasi system, In Tamil they are known as Devar Adigalar, (Where in Devar means in Tamil as "God" and Adigalar means in Tamil as "Servants", Which is put together into one makes as "God's Servant"). Devadasi are Men and women were dedicated to temple & god's service. They developed the system of music and dance employed during temple festivals.

Inscriptions reveal that the 400 dancers, their gurus and orchestras, were maintained by the Brihadeesvarar temple, Thanjavur, with munificent grants, including the daily disbursement of oil, turmeric, betel leaves and nuts.[9]

Nattuvanars were the male accompanists of the devadasi during her performance. They conducted the music orchestra while the devadasi performed her service. Inscriptions reveal that nattuvanars were used to teach the Chola princess Kuntavai a thousand years ago.[9]

As the Chola empire expanded in wealth and size, they built more temples throughout their country. Soon other emperors started imitating the Chola empire and developed the system.

##############################################

Indians follow and worship the current prostitutes and filth spread through the entire entertainment industry but they have problem with Devadasis. Btw, devadasis were not simply prostitutes.
The corruption that pandas do is chillar compared to what goes on in the society today.

JNU, the citadel of liberalism and enlightenment tops UGC's sexual harassment list:

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...ent-list-smriti-irani-tells-lok-sabha-2155596

There are many stories written by JNU insiders themselves.
 
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Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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The corruption that pandas do is chillar compared to what goes on in the society today.
It is simple theory. Hindu art and music was closely related to bhakti tradition and was patronized by kings. As the kings were overthrown, the temple devdasis had no way to support their life and some turned to prostitution while some others were forced.

The same people who now try to sit on high pedestal were visiting and praising tawaifs all through this time. Now they watch and swoon over hero(ines), who have much worse character and art than devdasis of the past.
 

asingh10

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It is simple theory. Hindu art and music was closely related to bhakti tradition and was patronized by kings. As the kings were overthrown, the temple devdasis had no way to support their life and some turned to prostitution while some others were forced.

The same people who now try to sit on high pedestal were visiting and praising tawaifs all through this time. Now they watch and swoon over hero(ines), who have much worse character and art than devdasis of the past.
Mujra, Bar dance, Nautch girls, Item songs etc is secular. Devdasi is communal.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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mujra, bar dance, nautch girls is secular. devdasi is communal.
That is what happens when you forget your traditions and copy desert traditions to the hilt. Entire north India still follows purdah due to Islamic slavery while South does not. And now they are moving to another level of debauchery i.e. copying westerners.
 

asingh10

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That is what happens when you forget your traditions and copy desert traditions to the hilt. Entire north India still follows purdah due to Islamic slavery while South does not. And now they are moving to another level of debauchery i.e. copying westerners.
Not necessarily because of slavery but because Muslims use to harass Hindu women. The north indian practice of marriage ceremony in night also came about as a result of this afaik. In Punjab, less Purdah because Sikh masters got rid of it.

 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Not necessarily because of slavery but because Muslims use to harass Hindu women. The north indian practice of marriage ceremony in night also came about as a result of this afaik. In Punjab, less Purdah because Sikh masters got rid of it.

I am waiting for some people who will now come and defend purdah!!
 

Peter

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Chanakya proposed to regulate prostitution in Arthashastra, but not ban it as such. India seems to have a very old history of legalized prostitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarvadhu

Amrapali was one such Nagarvadhu, given Diksha by Lord Buddha.

Also isn't there a custom in Bengal of taking soil from prostitute's area/brothel for Devi Durga's idol for Durga Puja?
@Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Mad Indian

Why are you bringing things I have not even mentioned? I have never said Bollywood heroines are saints. I do not support them either. All I have said is that prostitution is evil and I stand by my point.

Let me ask a very disturbing question. How many of you would allow your female relatives(mothers,sisters,daughters) etc to engage in prostitution? How do you people even view these prostitutes? I believe you people are nothing but hypocrites.

Prostitutes are shunned in our society. Even during the ancient times their condition was same. There was a TV serial in Bengali channel(ETV most likely) starring Swastika Mukeherjee titled Devadasi which harped on the conditions of these temple prostitutes during 19th-20th century Bengal. Most of these so called devadasis were young teenaged women who were given to temples by their poor parents who could not marry them off. After they became old they were left with a life of complete misery and hopelessness. In the name of god women were exploited by the pandas. What was portrayed in the serial is not someone would like to discuss.

As for A.SIngh sir`s last question the custom is/was prevalent in Bengal in some areas but it is not done in East Bengal.

Note: Mujra bars,prostitution centers,devadasis are all evil. Please do not bring secular communal nonsense here.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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@Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Mad Indian

Why are you bringing things I have not even mentioned? I have never said Bollywood heroines are saints. I do not support them either. All I have said is that prostitution is evil and I stand by my point.

Let me ask a very disturbing question. How many of you would allow your female relatives(mothers,sisters,daughters) etc to engage in prostitution? How do you people even view these prostitutes? I believe you people are nothing but hypocrites.

Prostitutes are shunned in our society. Even during the ancient times their condition was same. There was a TV serial in Bengali channel(ETV most likely) starring Swastika Mukeherjee titled Devadasi which harped on the conditions of these temple prostitutes during 19th-20th century Bengal. Most of these so called devadasis were young teenaged women who were given to temples by their poor parents who could not marry them off. After they became old they were left with a life of complete misery and hopelessness. In the name of god women were exploited by the pandas. What was portrayed in the serial is not someone would like to discuss.

As for A.SIngh sir`s last question the custom is/was prevalent in Bengal in some areas but it is not done in East Bengal.

Note: Mujra bars,prostitution centers,devadasis are all evil. Please do not bring secular communal nonsense here.
I did not get why prostitution is evil? It is the oldest tradition and if someone is not forced into it, I do not see a reason to see it evil.

Once you show it is evil I will entertain your future questions.
 

Screambowl

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the art of warfare was taught by Brahmins to Kashatriyas. Slowly, due to change in generations, Brahmins stopped telling the secrets of warfare and knowledge of war , fearing this could be used for non righteous agendas.
 

prasadr14

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First and foremost This thread is offensive.
All our fore fathers were the product of their times and circumstances. Trying to zero in on incidents that happened centuries back and generalize a whole segment of population on that is absurd.
A farmer braving it out in his farm daily is no less brave than a soldier doing it at the border.
That's just my 2 cents...

Coming to AIT...well, only complete idiots would still believe this crap.
 

pmaitra

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Please go and check AIT thread. It is a pile of BS peddled by Brits and then carried forward by their sepoys.

Most of the new evidences refute it. And because of that the original AIT claimers have shifted their position to milder AMT theory. In the long run, this theory will go to dustbin, where it actually belongs.
I have seen the "pile of BS," if I may use your word, and it is those unsuccessful attempts to invalidate AIT/AMT.

There is no new evidence that refutes it. All presumed references have been countered.

No one has moved over to a milder form. The claim is either AMT happened, or AIT happened, or both. This is called being open to possibilities. This is not the same thing as abandoning AIT and settling for AMT.

Sorry, I had to set the records straight, so that people are not misled.

People in different parts of India will continue to look different, and all this OIT and related theories will keep coming up and go back into the dustbin.
 
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pmaitra

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We can all agree to disagree but do ponder about the facial makeups of North and South Indians.

Anyways I believe that historical revision is something which can be done sometimes. However while truth is being sacrificed at the altar of political correctness one should not try to enforce his twisted views upon others. If you are an AIT debunk-er it is fine with me but why force others to stop believing AIT.
Yes, there is difference in the facial structures, cheek bones, nose, deposition of fat, and lots of other things, that give us a lot of information. Anthropometric analyses have been done, including by Mahalanobis, the inventor of Mahalanobis Distance. I have also posted his work, but when people are emotionally hurt by the truth, they tend to reject it, and resort to namecalling.
 

parijataka

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This thread is so symbolic of why Hindus were defeated but also why India never became Islamic (of course there is still time for that - what they could not through sword might be accomplished through demography and `secular` Hindus bending over backwards to please/appease !) - disunited but proud Hindus nevertheless !

Have not gone through all the posts but just skimmed through and got sick of all the hyperbole and name calling. Some points I'd like to counter -

(1) Parda - this is nowhere seen in any sculptures or paintings in India before Islamic invasions. Look @ Karla caves or Ajanta-Ellora circa 1st-2nd AD - the women are gloriously decked out in jewels and fine clothes, in Karla the statues of men and women who contributed funds towards the Buddhist cave carvings and monastery are carved with sumptuous clothes and turbans for both men as well as women. Parda seems to be an introduced Middle Eastern practise and hence seen in north and western India mainly, in S India women never covered their heads.

(2) Prostitution and devadasis - this phenomenon has been there across India. Amrapali, the courtesan of Buddha's times (pre-Buddha ?) is described as `nagara vadhu` and well off ladies of the night enjoyed a status in society. Having said that many women were thrown into this profession unwillingly as well and exploited.

(3) Role of different castes/communities in defending India as warriors - if not for Rajputs/warriors of Rajasthan and then later the Marathas and Sikhs India would have long been an extension of Arabia. Plus S Indians who cry about daughter selling N Indians need to remember while we S Indians were free to concentrate on dance, music and literature the Norht of India was gripped in throes of waves of violent invasions from the North western borders of Bharat ! Many communities have a proud warrior tradition including our tribes such as Bhils who were fierce warriors in their own right and were a core part of Rana Pratap's army in exile.
 

pmaitra

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@parijataka, to add to your post, women enjoyed positions of privilege during the Mauryan Era, and promiscuity was not looked down upon, rather, promiscuous women actually enjoyed positions of influence. I have posted a summary of Indika in DFI somewhere, which is the source of what I am stating. You are correct, the restrictions on women, ghunghat, purdah, etc., came from the Arabs, partly via the Persians.
 

Screambowl

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Guys, stay on topic.

Can we just discuss about Kshatriyas and not, prostitution, vetican and what not.
 

pmaitra

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Why is it evil?

I see no evil in this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devadasi

The Chola empire encouraged the devadasi system, In Tamil they are known as Devar Adigalar, (Where in Devar means in Tamil as "God" and Adigalar means in Tamil as "Servants", Which is put together into one makes as "God's Servant"). Devadasi are Men and women were dedicated to temple & god's service. They developed the system of music and dance employed during temple festivals.

Inscriptions reveal that the 400 dancers, their gurus and orchestras, were maintained by the Brihadeesvarar temple, Thanjavur, with munificent grants, including the daily disbursement of oil, turmeric, betel leaves and nuts.[9]

Nattuvanars were the male accompanists of the devadasi during her performance. They conducted the music orchestra while the devadasi performed her service. Inscriptions reveal that nattuvanars were used to teach the Chola princess Kuntavai a thousand years ago.[9]

As the Chola empire expanded in wealth and size, they built more temples throughout their country. Soon other emperors started imitating the Chola empire and developed the system.

##############################################

Indians follow and worship the current prostitutes and filth spread through the entire entertainment industry but they have problem with Devadasis. Btw, devadasis were not simply prostitutes.
The corruption that pandas do is chillar compared to what goes on in the society today.

JNU, the citadel of liberalism and enlightenment tops UGC's sexual harassment list:

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...ent-list-smriti-irani-tells-lok-sabha-2155596

There are many stories written by JNU insiders themselves.
@Peter is not referring to what used to happen during the Chola period, or what the original purpose of Devdasis was. He is referring to what actually used to happen, and some say, still happens.

Many Devdasis were de facto victims of sexual exploitation.

The people in the entertainment industry are not prostitutes, and neither are Devdasis prostitutes. A prostitute has sex for money.

Mujra, Bar dance, Nautch girls, Item songs etc is secular. Devdasi is communal.
This sentence makes no sense, but perhaps, it was not meant to make any sense, but to deflect a very uncomfortable truth.
 

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