Rebuttal to Girish Shahane :Rajputs always lost on the battlefield

Chimaji Appa

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While the rest of his article is pure autist drivel, I am only going to bust the myth that Rajputs never won and always lost on the battlefield.



1. "A thousand years ago, Rajput kings ruled much of North India. Then they lost to Ghazni, lost to Ghuri, lost to Khilji, lost to Babur, lost to Akbar, lost to the Marathas, and keeled over before the British. The Marathas and Brits hardly count since the Rajputs were a spent force by the time Akbar was done with them. Having been confined to an arid part of the subcontinent by the early Sultans, they were reduced to vassals by the Mughals."



It is true that Rajputs lost to the Ghaznavids and Ghurids, but it is also true that the latter lost to the former. Rajput leadership under Govindachandra and Vijayachandra Gahadavala protected UP from later Ghaznavid incursions, repelling several of them, while the Chahamanas of Sambhar under the leadership Arnoraja, Ajayraja, and Vigrahaja IV Chauhan beat back the armies of Ghazni from Rajasthan, at one point annihilating a whole raiding party and "filling Ajmer with the Turushka blood" (Ajmer Prashasti inscription). Similarily, the Ghurids were beaten by the Solankis in 1178 (that too by a female ruler) and Prithviraj Chauhan in 1191 (he was even injured in this encounter). In 1192, Ghori did show his geniusness by launching a night raid into the Chauhan camp, while Prithviraj made invested too much time on retaking Tarabindh. However, Rajputs were not used to this non-conventional type warfare as they followed a strict Khsatriya code in warfare Even when Rajputs lost, so what? That is how war is; you win some you lose some. Should I bring up the humiliating defeat at Panipat or how a mere 8,000 Turkic cavalry routed the entire Suena of Devagiri army to mock Marathas?



The Rajputs also defeated the Khiljis. For example, Hammiradev Chauhan repelled the army of Jalaluddin Khilji from Ranthambore and even conquered Jhain ( a town in NE Rajasthan) from the Turks. He also repelled another invasion from the Khiljis in 1300, where Alauddin lost one of his favorite generals, Nusrat Khan. Mind you that he was the only king in India to do this. The Jalore Chauhan ruler Kanhadade also repelled an invasion from the Khiljis, capturing the commander and his harem.



Furthermore Rajputana put a much better resistance against the unstoppable Khiljis than elsewhere. Malik Kafur crossed the Godavari in 1306 and occupied Madurai by 1311. Meanwhile, the siege of Siwana took Khilji’s army 6 years to capture. Mind you that the kingdoms of Rajputana and the North had been facing Turkic invasions since in the 11th century, while it was only 200 years later when the South/Deccan knew what it was like to face a turk on a horse. We should also not forget how hard it is launch to a launch a cavalry campaign into the Deccan as conquest. That one campaign led by Kafur would establish a Sultanate that would rule all of the Deccan for 300 years is indeed quite laughable.



“Marathas”- This claim makes me bust my gut laughing. The 4 battles that are “Maratha vs Rajput” are:

Battle of Laslot

Battle of Patan

Battle of Malpura

Battle of Merta



In the battles of Merta and Patan, most of the Rajputana soldiers were killed in their sleep, while in the Battle of Laslot, it was a stalemate where both sides claimed victory. The Battle of Malpura is the only battle in which the Marathas actually beat a Rajputana army on its own. Furthermore, the Rajputana infantry were always ill equipped while the Rajput horsemen still fought the same way as they would in the 12th century. One must wonder how a spent Rajputana could stalemate a powerful empire like that of the Marathas with just naked Brahmins (Sadhus) and 12th century style-Rathore horsemen. Maybe physical strength has to do with it?

I also like how he left out the Arab invasions of India, where a coalition of Rajputana kings led by Nagabhatta Pratihar repelled an Arab invasion at Ujjain, or the Mamluks who failed to conquer the Rajputana. To give you a few examples:


1. Illtutmish invades and destroys Nagada, capital of Mewar, and inflicts heavy losses on the Guhilot king Jaitrasimha. However, Jaitrasimha allies with the Vaghelas of Gujarat and successfully kicks out the Turks from Mewar.
2. Ghiyassudin Balban sends an army to conquer Gujarat, but Samarasimha of Mewar and Sarangadeva Vaghela ally and repel this invasion, both were Rajputs of Rajasthan and Gujarat respectively.


Pratihar Rajputs also ruled an empire which encompassed all of North India called the Gurjara Pratiharas, while facing attacks from multiple directions.



2. “The three most famous Rajput heroes not only took a beating in crucial engagements, but also retreated from the field of battle. Prithviraj Chauhan was captured while bolting and executed after the second battle of Tarain in 1192 CE, while Rana Sanga got away after losing to Babur at Khanua in 1527, as did Rana Pratap after the battle of Haldighati in 1576.”



This shit makes me angry every time I read this. So did Ghori at Tarain in 1191. Akbar did not even lead his army at Haldighati and Sanga and Pratap were both injured by contemporary sources. Pratap had also a launched a successful guerilla campaign and reconquered most of his territory from the Mughals following Haldighati. The treaty signed by Amar Singh and Jahangir was favorable to Mewar as A.) The Rana of Mewar did not have to attend the Mughal court and B.) Mewar did not have to contribute to the Mughal army. This allowed for Mewar to rebuild and regain strength, where they would ally with Marwar and make one last successful bid for independence in 1680. Many generals and kings in history, when faced with defeat, retreated. Shivaji also ran an away from his last battle (in which a small Mughal contigent ambushed and routed his whole raiding party-annihilating it to a man) as did Santaji Ghorpade. Does not make them cowards does it?



Conclusion:
If Rajputs were such defeat specialists and poor military men, then why were they the most valued soldiers in the Mughal empire? Why did kings like Tipu Sultan forbade the recruitment of the Deccanese, but allow Rajputs from up north to join? Even the Marathas had consider amounts of Purbiya soldiers in their armies. It is true that the Rajputs used tactics like straightforward charges, were disunited, etc etc but they still managed to repel various Turkic armies and keep their lands free of Turkic rule.


RANA SANGA:
This dude literally brought up Rana Sanga's only defeat at Khanwa like Rana Sanga just magically rose out of nowhere while calling him a "defeat specialist". Little does this dude know that Rana Sanga was certainly the most able ruler in India, and Babur himself was mortally terrified of his power. Rana Sanga invaded Malwa, routed the Gujarat army and right after routed the Malwa army, capturing the Malwa Sultan Mahmud Khalji II who was injured. Rana Sanga almost ended muslim rule in Malwa but found the occupation of the country too hard. He won 3 battles at Idar, defeating Gujarat 3 times and placing whoever he wanted on the Idar throne. He then began conquering territories in the Delhi Sultanate, routing the Afghans at Khatoli and Dholpur (both of which he was outnumbered in) and became real close to kicking out the Muslim power in Delhi. He even defeated a Mughal contigent sent towards Bayana. Even when he lost at Khanwa, so what? That is how war is; you win some you lose some. Fact is that Mewar kingdom never ended and continued to resist the Mughal onslaught under Pratap and later Raj Singh of Mewar.

Sources:
Early Chauhan Dynasties by Dasharatha Sharma
History of the Gahadavalas by Roma Niyogi
Medieval Malwa up Upendra Nath
Medieval india from sultanate to the Mughals
Chaulukyas of Gujarat by AK Majumdar
 

cereal killer

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Didn't Raha Sangha invited Babur to take on Ibrahim lodhi? As he hoped he would go back after looting Delhi & he would sit on the throne. If he himself was so powerful why didn't he himself took the mantle to defeat Lodhis?
 

Chimaji Appa

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Didn't Raha Sangha invited Babur to take on Ibrahim lodhi? As he hoped he would go back after looting Delhi & he would sit on the throne. If he himself was so powerful why didn't he himself took the mantle to defeat Lodhis?
Nope. Rana Sangha, if he invited Babur (something that many people have argued against as it was Babur who needed a alliance), only did it to have him plunder Delhi. It would only make the hindu reconquista of India much faster.
here is a thread regarding the basis that it was Babur, not Sanga, who needed the alliance
 

R A Varun

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It is a marvelous and wonderfull article
Rajput's had very good fight against all the invaders except in the period of Akbar for his cunning bullying tactics they did put up a best defence against the foreigners
This Girish Shane seems to be a liberandus group to insult Indian national hero
 

cereal killer

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Nope. Rana Sangha, if he invited Babur (something that many people have argued against as it was Babur who needed a alliance), only did it to have him plunder Delhi. It would only make the hindu reconquista of India much faster.
here is a thread regarding the basis that it was Babur, not Sanga, who needed the alliance
The handle also claims Jaichand was not at fault of the Ghori blunder. Don't know why I always thought there must be some reason Jaichand was so bitter against Prithviraj inspite of the controversial marriage of his daughter. Jaichand would've been a hero today if not for that stray arrow that stuck him in his battle with Ghori. History is too much twisted.
 

AUSTERLITZ

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These lib intellectuals are so obsessed with self hatred its nauseating.
The gurjar pratihara under nagabhatta and chalukyas defeated the mighty arab caliphate decisively.Bappa rawal is a commander of this war.This is an achievement similar to battle of tours in europe.The arbs defeated persia and conquered it,were unable to cross the indus.It was only the turks with massed horse archers that broke through under ghazni 200 yrs later .
Even then it took another 200 years for them to establish a permanent presence under ghori.In between 2 centuries of near permanent conflict with turkish raids which rajputs defended.
Ghori won 2 battles with rajputs and lost 2.Prithviraj chauhan i agree is a tad overrated due to the romance factor.
Alauddin with an army that defeated mongols struggled at ranthambor and chittor.Rajputs under hammir singh took back chittor,drove out the khiljis and then tughlaqs.His son retook ajmer.Rana kumbha of this dynasty who built kumbhalgarh fort and tower of victory in chittor defeated malwa and gujarat sultanates .Rana sanga had defeated ibrahim lodi at khatoli and was only defeated by babur due to gunpowder weapons.

Akbar did what no other sultan had been able to do-with deft combination carrot and stick he did finally subdue the rajputs.But that doesnt mean all gave up.Rathore cavalry saved the mughal army's central asian campaign,and jai singh was also the only mughal commander who was successful against the marathas where diler khan,mahabat khan,shaista khan,afzal khan,zulfiqar khan and aurangzeb himself failed.
Rana pratap is well known.Mewar's successful victory and independence raj singh allied with durgadas rathore is less so.
By the time of the british they were exhausted and impoverished.This is mainly because rajput revenues depended not on agricultureal land revenue but taxinf the trade routes between the central north indian urban centres and ports of western india.As central power centres declined in prosperity in 18th century and british took control of trade routes and realigned them,rajputana economic power was badly affected.

In independent india rajputs have won 5 param vir chakra ,more than any others.Even in pakistan they have won 7 nishan.

Overall greatest contribution of rajputs in their history holding the line between 800 to 1200 thus delaying the islamic invasions for 400 years.And then fiercely resisting the sultanate for 300 more years preventing the complete eclipse of hindu civilization in north india even as vijayanagara was protecting the south.Without Rajputs in the north and vijayanagara in the south,and the bhakti movement amongst the masses i can assure you indian civilization would have been wiped long before the marathas and the sikhs rose to power to begin a counterattack.
 

Chimaji Appa

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The handle also claims Jaichand was not at fault of the Ghori blunder. Don't know why I always thought there must be some reason Jaichand was so bitter against Prithviraj inspite of the controversial marriage of his daughter. Jaichand would've been a hero today if not for that stray arrow that stuck him in his battle with Ghori. History is too much twisted.
Jaichand being a traitor is a massive myth and one of the most erroneous statements in Indian history. The source of this come from the Prithviraj Raso, which is a very unreliable source and doesn't even get Jaichand's clan right. The 2 kingdoms may have entered a conflict or 2 (as they 2 were the most dominant in all of the North) but that does NOT mean that Jaichand was a traitor or allied with Ghori. Jaichand's nobles were also kind of worried after tarain in 1192.
 

Chimaji Appa

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These lib intellectuals are so obsessed with self hatred its nauseating.
The gurjar pratihara under nagabhatta and chalukyas defeated the mighty arab caliphate decisively.Bappa rawal is a commander of this war.This is an achievement similar to battle of tours in europe.The arbs defeated persia and conquered it,were unable to cross the indus.It was only the turks with massed horse archers that broke through under ghazni 200 yrs later .
Even then it took another 200 years for them to establish a permanent presence under ghori.In between 2 centuries of near permanent conflict with turkish raids which rajputs defended.
Ghori won 2 battles with rajputs and lost 2.Prithviraj chauhan i agree is a tad overrated due to the romance factor.
Alauddin with an army that defeated mongols struggled at ranthambor and chittor.Rajputs under hammir singh took back chittor,drove out the khiljis and then tughlaqs.His son retook ajmer.Rana kumbha of this dynasty who built kumbhalgarh fort and tower of victory in chittor defeated malwa and gujarat sultanates .Rana sanga had defeated ibrahim lodi at khatoli and was only defeated by babur due to gunpowder weapons.

Akbar did what no other sultan had been able to do-with deft combination carrot and stick he did finally subdue the rajputs.But that doesnt mean all gave up.Rathore cavalry saved the mughal army's central asian campaign,and jai singh was also the only mughal commander who was successful against the marathas where diler khan,mahabat khan,shaista khan,afzal khan,zulfiqar khan and aurangzeb himself failed.
Rana pratap is well known.Mewar's successful victory and independence raj singh allied with durgadas rathore is less so.
By the time of the british they were exhausted and impoverished.This is mainly because rajput revenues depended not on agricultureal land revenue but taxinf the trade routes between the central north indian urban centres and ports of western india.As central power centres declined in prosperity in 18th century and british took control of trade routes and realigned them,rajputana economic power was badly affected.

In independent india rajputs have won 5 param vir chakra ,more than any others.Even in pakistan they have won 7 nishan.

Overall greatest contribution of rajputs in their history holding the line between 800 to 1200 thus delaying the islamic invasions for 400 years.And then fiercely resisting the sultanate for 300 more years preventing the complete eclipse of hindu civilization in north india even as vijayanagara was protecting the south.Without Rajputs in the north and vijayanagara in the south,and the bhakti movement amongst the masses i can assure you indian civilization would have been wiped long before the marathas and the sikhs rose to power to begin a counterattack.
Very good post.
 

Sigmamale101

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While the rest of his article is pure autist drivel, I am only going to bust the myth that Rajputs never won and always lost on the battlefield.



1. "A thousand years ago, Rajput kings ruled much of North India. Then they lost to Ghazni, lost to Ghuri, lost to Khilji, lost to Babur, lost to Akbar, lost to the Marathas, and keeled over before the British. The Marathas and Brits hardly count since the Rajputs were a spent force by the time Akbar was done with them. Having been confined to an arid part of the subcontinent by the early Sultans, they were reduced to vassals by the Mughals."



It is true that Rajputs lost to the Ghaznavids and Ghurids, but it is also true that the latter lost to the former. Rajput leadership under Govindachandra and Vijayachandra Gahadavala protected UP from later Ghaznavid incursions, repelling several of them, while the Chahamanas of Sambhar under the leadership Arnoraja, Ajayraja, and Vigrahaja IV Chauhan beat back the armies of Ghazni from Rajasthan, at one point annihilating a whole raiding party and "filling Ajmer with the Turushka blood" (Ajmer Prashasti inscription). Similarily, the Ghurids were beaten by the Solankis in 1178 (that too by a female ruler) and Prithviraj Chauhan in 1191 (he was even injured in this encounter). In 1192, Ghori did show his geniusness by launching a night raid into the Chauhan camp, while Prithviraj made invested too much time on retaking Tarabindh. However, Rajputs were not used to this non-conventional type warfare as they followed a strict Khsatriya code in warfare Even when Rajputs lost, so what? That is how war is; you win some you lose some. Should I bring up the humiliating defeat at Panipat or how a mere 8,000 Turkic cavalry routed the entire Suena of Devagiri army to mock Marathas?



The Rajputs also defeated the Khiljis. For example, Hammiradev Chauhan repelled the army of Jalaluddin Khilji from Ranthambore and even conquered Jhain ( a town in NE Rajasthan) from the Turks. He also repelled another invasion from the Khiljis in 1300, where Alauddin lost one of his favorite generals, Nusrat Khan. Mind you that he was the only king in India to do this. The Jalore Chauhan ruler Kanhadade also repelled an invasion from the Khiljis, capturing the commander and his harem.



Furthermore Rajputana put a much better resistance against the unstoppable Khiljis than elsewhere. Malik Kafur crossed the Godavari in 1306 and occupied Madurai by 1311. Meanwhile, the siege of Siwana took Khilji’s army 6 years to capture. Mind you that the kingdoms of Rajputana and the North had been facing Turkic invasions since in the 11th century, while it was only 200 years later when the South/Deccan knew what it was like to face a turk on a horse. We should also not forget how hard it is launch to a launch a cavalry campaign into the Deccan as conquest. That one campaign led by Kafur would establish a Sultanate that would rule all of the Deccan for 300 years is indeed quite laughable.



“Marathas”- This claim makes me bust my gut laughing. The 4 battles that are “Maratha vs Rajput” are:

Battle of Laslot

Battle of Patan

Battle of Malpura

Battle of Merta



In the battles of Merta and Patan, most of the Rajputana soldiers were killed in their sleep, while in the Battle of Laslot, it was a stalemate where both sides claimed victory. The Battle of Malpura is the only battle in which the Marathas actually beat a Rajputana army on its own. Furthermore, the Rajputana infantry were always ill equipped while the Rajput horsemen still fought the same way as they would in the 12th century. One must wonder how a spent Rajputana could stalemate a powerful empire like that of the Marathas with just naked Brahmins (Sadhus) and 12th century style-Rathore horsemen. Maybe physical strength has to do with it?

I also like how he left out the Arab invasions of India, where a coalition of Rajputana kings led by Nagabhatta Pratihar repelled an Arab invasion at Ujjain, or the Mamluks who failed to conquer the Rajputana. To give you a few examples:


1. Illtutmish invades and destroys Nagada, capital of Mewar, and inflicts heavy losses on the Guhilot king Jaitrasimha. However, Jaitrasimha allies with the Vaghelas of Gujarat and successfully kicks out the Turks from Mewar.
2. Ghiyassudin Balban sends an army to conquer Gujarat, but Samarasimha of Mewar and Sarangadeva Vaghela ally and repel this invasion, both were Rajputs of Rajasthan and Gujarat respectively.


Pratihar Rajputs also ruled an empire which encompassed all of North India called the Gurjara Pratiharas, while facing attacks from multiple directions.



2. “The three most famous Rajput heroes not only took a beating in crucial engagements, but also retreated from the field of battle. Prithviraj Chauhan was captured while bolting and executed after the second battle of Tarain in 1192 CE, while Rana Sanga got away after losing to Babur at Khanua in 1527, as did Rana Pratap after the battle of Haldighati in 1576.”



This shit makes me angry every time I read this. So did Ghori at Tarain in 1191. Akbar did not even lead his army at Haldighati and Sanga and Pratap were both injured by contemporary sources. Pratap had also a launched a successful guerilla campaign and reconquered most of his territory from the Mughals following Haldighati. The treaty signed by Amar Singh and Jahangir was favorable to Mewar as A.) The Rana of Mewar did not have to attend the Mughal court and B.) Mewar did not have to contribute to the Mughal army. This allowed for Mewar to rebuild and regain strength, where they would ally with Marwar and make one last successful bid for independence in 1680. Many generals and kings in history, when faced with defeat, retreated. Shivaji also ran an away from his last battle (in which a small Mughal contigent ambushed and routed his whole raiding party-annihilating it to a man) as did Santaji Ghorpade. Does not make them cowards does it?



Conclusion:
If Rajputs were such defeat specialists and poor military men, then why were they the most valued soldiers in the Mughal empire? Why did kings like Tipu Sultan forbade the recruitment of the Deccanese, but allow Rajputs from up north to join? Even the Marathas had consider amounts of Purbiya soldiers in their armies. It is true that the Rajputs used tactics like straightforward charges, were disunited, etc etc but they still managed to repel various Turkic armies and keep their lands free of Turkic rule.


RANA SANGA:
This dude literally brought up Rana Sanga's only defeat at Khanwa like Rana Sanga just magically rose out of nowhere while calling him a "defeat specialist". Little does this dude know that Rana Sanga was certainly the most able ruler in India, and Babur himself was mortally terrified of his power. Rana Sanga invaded Malwa, routed the Gujarat army and right after routed the Malwa army, capturing the Malwa Sultan Mahmud Khalji II who was injured. Rana Sanga almost ended muslim rule in Malwa but found the occupation of the country too hard. He won 3 battles at Idar, defeating Gujarat 3 times and placing whoever he wanted on the Idar throne. He then began conquering territories in the Delhi Sultanate, routing the Afghans at Khatoli and Dholpur (both of which he was outnumbered in) and became real close to kicking out the Muslim power in Delhi. He even defeated a Mughal contigent sent towards Bayana. Even when he lost at Khanwa, so what? That is how war is; you win some you lose some. Fact is that Mewar kingdom never ended and continued to resist the Mughal onslaught under Pratap and later Raj Singh of Mewar.

Sources:
Early Chauhan Dynasties by Dasharatha Sharma
History of the Gahadavalas by Roma Niyogi
Medieval Malwa up Upendra Nath
Medieval india from sultanate to the Mughals
Chaulukyas of Gujarat by AK Majumdar
Excellent thread only found it now. Shahane is a marathi brahmin :lol: @hit&run see what i was talking about....this is not the first time & will not be the last.....goin on for long time. There is a whole kabal of them out there, very very sophisticated network i must say. For them everything revolves around Marathas & Peshwas.
These lib intellectuals are so obsessed with self hatred its nauseating.
There is no self hatred here.This is just deccani chimps doing there usual propaganda against Rajputs.
 

ezsasa

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Excellent thread only found it now. Shahane is a marathi brahmin :lol: @hit&run see what i was talking about....this is not the first time & will not be the last.....goin on for long time. There is a whole kabal of them out there, very very sophisticated network i must say. For them everything revolves around Marathas & Peshwas.

There is no self hatred here.This is just deccani chimps doing there usual propaganda against Rajputs.
a regular author at scroll.in does not write these things because he is “Marathi Brahmin”, it’s ideological. is it the case that you haven’t realised these things yet?
 

Sigmamale101

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Oh god please don’t let this Maratha-Rajput war reach Defence Forum
Have you seen Tanhaji movie ? Indian Army Chief , Indian Airforce Chief , Indian Naval Chief all went together for the screening of the movie.
Whole film is nothing but Marathi chauvinism along with filthy deccani propaganda against Rajputs based on lies & myth... do you still think these things happen or are happening in isolation ?



Such propganda is not just limited to some random regular author of scroll.....so
 

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